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Thread: Missouri Open Carry while driving through

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    Missouri Open Carry while driving through

    Hello. I am interested in the current state of Open Carry in Missouri.
    I am considering an Open Carry moving trip which may cross through Missouri.


    Do you live in Missouri?
    Do you Open Carry while driving?
    Experiences?


    I've read that the state has a patchwork of different laws on the issue.
    Any specific areas to avoid? Avoid St. Louis?

    It'd be wonderful if they would have a good state wide pre emption law, as the current state of affairs makes planning travel a little more stressful..

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    Open carrying a concealable firearm while in a vehicle is preempted by state law. Outside of the vehicle is a different story.

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    Thanks for the response.

    Clarification: concealable meaning as in literally able to be concealed or meaning with a chp/ccw permit?

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    Follow up: so then if I need to stop for gas or food, what then? I have to somehow research each towns stance on OC? Leave it locked in the vehicle?

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    I don't remember the definition in the statute, but I believe it's an overall length < 15 inches. And yes, you'll need to research each city before you get out. And the online ordinances are frequently out of date. Fun, eh?

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    Yes it can be a problem open carrying in Missouri. What I do and have not had a problem yet is call the Police Department of the city I am not familiar with. I know there are those that think that is a bad idea, but as I said I have had no problems what so ever and I open carry every day.

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    Calling the police is an extremely bad idea. They are under no obligation what so ever to give you accurate information and are specifically ALLOWED to lie,

    For some reason a few folks have yet to grasp that the police are not on your side and serve the prosecutor not them and they are literally asking the opposite side of a legal discussion for advice instead of their own lawyer.

    While there may be a few that opt to argue the point, you pretty much can't "open carry" in a car in MO. You see for it to be open carry it must be readily visible from more than one angle. In order to open carry in the car you are pretty much going to have to put it on the dash or in a rear window which by the way has drawn open carry violations in past years. I spoke with a criminal lawyer on the topic and his opinion was that due to the convictions in the past for concealed carry based upon the gun not being in plain sight they are not going to play with fire and call that "open carry" now and have all those previous cases come back to haunt them.

    To my knowledge there is no interstate highway system in MO that crosses the state that does not pass through a open carry restricted municipality. 49 from kc to Joplin MIGHT be good to go, I do not know that side of the state well. 44, 70, 64 all crossing from STL to IL are going to cross munis that do not allow, and 55 headed to Arkansas is going to pass through munis that restrict it.

    As to what to do, well I lock mine in a safe and head on where ever i need to go sporting only the holster and BUG.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    There are those that are paranoid about open carrying a loaded weapon and then there are those of us that take reasonable precautions to avoid an incident. I have opened carried for quite some time and I refuse to carry in fear of the boogie man. Open carrying by it's very nature brings a whole new level of responsibility, in Missouri that means know the laws to the best of your ability and seek reasonable sources of knowledge when needed. Otherwise, I suggest you conceal carry.

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    LMTD, you've lost me here bro. Let's say that an officer decides that you are concealed carrying in a car. So what? CC in a car without a permit is perfectly legal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    LMTD, you've lost me here bro. Let's say that an officer decides that you are concealed carrying in a car. So what? CC in a car without a permit is perfectly legal.

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    I agree. Under Missouri's peaceable journey law, I'm fairly certain the inside of one's vehicle is considered private property. Therefore, the manner in which a person carries their firearm, within their own domain: the private property of one's vehicle interior, is not under the purview of the state. Hence: If Joe Schmo from Albequerque wanted to duct tape a loaded Desert Eagle to his forehead while driving through Missouri, as long as he remains within his vehicle, and is lawfully allowed to posess a firearm, there's nothing unlawful about it.

    In 90% of Missouri, he'd even be fine getting out as the obviously visible monstrosity taped to his dome would be considered openly carried. However, toss a blanket over his head, and he would require a valid CCW as it would be "concealed".

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    Since I didn't back things up with cites, I guess I'll do it now. Everything you need to to know is in RsMO Section 571.030. You may find it here: http://www.moga.mo.gov/statutes/C500-599/5710000030.HTM

    This makes concealed carry illegal:

    571.030. 1. A person commits the crime of unlawful use of weapons if he or she knowingly:

    "(1) Carries concealed upon or about his or her person a knife, a firearm, a blackjack or any other weapon readily capable of lethal use; or"


    Another statute in

    This is the exception for vehicles:

    "3. Subdivisions (1), (5), (8), and (10) of subsection 1 of this section do not apply when the actor is transporting such weapons in a nonfunctioning state or in an unloaded state when ammunition is not readily accessible or when such weapons are not readily accessible. Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older or eighteen years of age or older and a member of the United States Armed Forces, or honorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces, transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle, so long as such concealable firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed, nor when the actor is also in possession of an exposed firearm or projectile weapon for the lawful pursuit of game, or is in his or her dwelling unit or upon premises over which the actor has possession, authority or control, or is traveling in a continuous journey peaceably through this state. Subdivision (10) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply if the firearm is otherwise lawfully possessed by a person while traversing school premises for the purposes of transporting a student to or from school, or possessed by an adult for the purposes of facilitation of a school-sanctioned firearm-related event or club event."

    Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section refers to the statute making concealed carry illegal.

    No interpretation of the peaceable journey law is required, this behavior is explicitly legal by state statute. You are exempted from the CC statute if you are over 21 (or over 18 and a other stuff), in a vehicle, you lawfully own the weapon, and it's concealable.

    Quote Originally Posted by Superlite27 View Post
    I agree. Under Missouri's peaceable journey law, I'm fairly certain the inside of one's vehicle is considered private property. Therefore, the manner in which a person carries their firearm, within their own domain: the private property of one's vehicle interior, is not under the purview of the state. Hence: If Joe Schmo from Albequerque wanted to duct tape a loaded Desert Eagle to his forehead while driving through Missouri, as long as he remains within his vehicle, and is lawfully allowed to posess a firearm, there's nothing unlawful about it.

    In 90% of Missouri, he'd even be fine getting out as the obviously visible monstrosity taped to his dome would be considered openly carried. However, toss a blanket over his head, and he would require a valid CCW as it would be "concealed".

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    LMTD, you've lost me here bro. Let's say that an officer decides that you are concealed carrying in a car. So what? CC in a car without a permit is perfectly legal.

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    Exactly, sort of, but not really.

    A pistol on your hip in a holster while you are in the car = CONCEALED carry not open carry as most think of open carry.

    A shotgun out of the case in a gun rack in the back window of a truck IS open carry and is NOT legal in some localities, the same would be true for a pistol placed on the dash in a holster.

    My point is, where open carry is not legal, it is NEVER legal and a pistol on your hip in a car is NOT open carry.

    My point was exactly that it changes to concealed carry, not by the officers decision but by numerous cases previously prosecuted and to try and prosecute someone for OPEN CARRY would result in all previous convictions for concealed carry coming (prior to ccw) into question and a rash of wrongful prosecution cases.

    In the situation superlite described, taping it to your forehead would make it visible from multiple angles and it would NOT be concealed carry and would indeed be something that you could be prosecuted for under open carry ordinances. Unless the tape covered the entire firearm, then it would remain concealed

    This does vary somewhat by state as how they define concealed varies
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    You need to read the statute more carefully. The problem with the shotgun in the window is not the open carrying. The problem is with it not being "concealable". As a result, there are no protections provided by the statute.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    You need to read the statute more carefully. The problem with the shotgun in the window is not the open carrying. The problem is with it not being "concealable". As a result, there are no protections provided by the statute.

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    No, because a pistol in plain sight on the dash will draw the Oc charge and the shotgun in the rack has done the same thing in the past OPEN CARRY.

    I have read the statues very carefully and had my nose in the writing of some of them sir.

    The reason a pistol on your side does not draw the charge is because it is CONCEALED, I am familiar with the debate over a long gun or a shot gun not being covered under the statutes it is an interesting debate, however the handgun issue is NOT a debate and case law exist.

    If you hang a pistol from that gun rack in the window, your going to be charged with OPEN CARRY in the lou without any doubt, ask your lawyer.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    yes, you'll need to research each city before you get out. And the online ordinances are frequently out of date. Fun, eh?
    A nightmare of fun. I'm sure all people are legislation fetishists.

    *face palm*... I really wish states would get their act together and completely preempt.

    I mean it is REALLY very difficult to even go through one towns statutes and ordinances, let alone several.

    Patchwork laws make life difficult for all of us.

    Please excuse my venting..

    Thank you very much for the heads up.

    How would I even find the up to date laws for each place?? Hoops hoops and more hoops. Rights should be defacto and hoops should face hurdles and strict scrutiny. oh boy.
    Last edited by DanNabis; 05-21-2014 at 11:00 AM. Reason: changed 'do' to 'would'

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Calling the police is an extremely bad idea. They are under no obligation what so ever to give you accurate information and are specifically ALLOWED to lie,
    Thank you. That is a very good point.

    Furthermore!! LEO's are NOT required to KNOW the law!!!!! Not at all. And they have special immunities for anything 'in good faith' which is pretty much everything a police officer does on duty..

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    To my knowledge there is no interstate highway system in MO that crosses the state that does not pass through a open carry restricted municipality. 49 from kc to Joplin MIGHT be good to go, I do not know that side of the state well. 44, 70, 64 all crossing from STL to IL are going to cross munis that do not allow, and 55 headed to Arkansas is going to pass through munis that restrict it.
    Thanks, that could be pretty helpful. I'll do some atlas-ing and see what I come up with.

    I'm planning on going KY - MO - KS

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    I suspect you might get a ride for that, but no conviction. At least until someone can provide cites for it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by logunowner View Post
    I suggest you conceal carry.
    Is CC legal without permits in MO?? Not as far as I remember/am aware.

    I'll have to see if MO issues non resident permits I guess.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Let's say that an officer decides that you are concealed carrying in a car. So what? CC in a car without a permit is perfectly legal.
    Thank you! that's very good to know. OK so I can maybe just CC in car for the state of MO and avoid problems.

    I will have to look in to that more.

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    No it is not. Missouri does not issue nonresident permits, but we do honor all other states. Also, CC in an automobile is explicitly permitted in the statutes.

    Quote Originally Posted by DanNabis View Post
    Is CC legal without permits in MO?? Not as far as I remember/am aware.

    I'll have to see if MO issues non resident permits I guess.


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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    Subdivision (1) of subsection 1 of this section does not apply to any person twenty-one years of age or older or eighteen years of age or older and a member of the United States Armed Forces, or honorably discharged from the United States Armed Forces, transporting a concealable firearm in the passenger compartment of a motor vehicle,

    No interpretation of the peaceable journey law is required, this behavior is explicitly legal by state statute. You are exempted from the CC statute if you are over 21 (or over 18 and a other stuff), in a vehicle, you lawfully own the weapon, and it's concealable.
    That's great. Thank you for so much help here. I was really clueless at the beginning of this.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    A pistol on your hip in a holster while you are in the car = CONCEALED carry not open carry as most think of open carry.

    My point is, where open carry is not legal, it is NEVER legal and a pistol on your hip in a car is NOT open carry.

    My point was exactly that it changes to concealed carry, not by the officers decision but by numerous cases previously prosecuted and to try and prosecute someone for OPEN CARRY would result in all previous convictions for concealed carry coming (prior to ccw) into question and a rash of wrongful prosecution cases.

    In the situation superlite described, taping it to your forehead would make it visible from multiple angles and it would NOT be concealed carry and would indeed be something that you could be prosecuted for under open carry ordinances. Unless the tape covered the entire firearm, then it would remain concealed

    This does vary somewhat by state as how they define concealed varies
    So I'm likely covered if I'm doing what I consider OC (visible on the hip) since it's actually CC and CC in vehicle over 21 is legal in MO.

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