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Thread: Law specificity; produce firearms license

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Law specificity; produce firearms license

    Regarding firearms and licensing in Louisiana, is there a specific portion of the LA code which requires a carrier to produce his license?
    (Meaning a specific requirement as there is for producing a driving license when stopped.)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    B (2) A Louisiana resident shall be required to possess a valid concealed handgun permit issued by the state of Louisiana pursuant to the provisions of this Section in order to carry a concealed handgun in the state of Louisiana.

    H (2) A permittee armed with a handgun in accordance with this Section shall notify any police officer who approaches the permittee in an official manner or with an identified official purpose that he has a weapon on his person, submit to a pat down, and allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.

    http://www.legis.state.la.us/lss/lss.asp?doc=97451
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    I read the entirety of RS 40:1379.3 without seeing such a requirement.

    An affirmative assertation of nonexistence cannot be sustained without an examination of the entire universe of discourse. And I ain't gonna.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Reread (H)(2). The final sentence reads "The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer" and the very next line, (H)(3) sets forth a fine of $100 for failure to comply.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    I read the entirety of RS 40:1379.3 without seeing such a requirement.

    An affirmative assertation of nonexistence cannot be sustained without an examination of the entire universe of discourse. And I ain't gonna.
    Quote Originally Posted by Seigi View Post
    Reread (H)(2). The final sentence reads "The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer" and the very next line, (H)(3) sets forth a fine of $100 for failure to comply.
    Yep - some people see, others observe. Still others comprehend.

    Sometimes we get lucky and do all three
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Oh, Hush ya bickerin' ol' biddies.
    Thanks for the answer, it just kept from looking a bit foolish.

    RS 40:1379.3 H(2), got it.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 04-26-2014 at 08:49 AM.

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    Produce Permit

    I have stood in line at check out registers at stores next to police officers who had no idea I was carrying a S&W M&P 40. If approached by a law enforcement officer on official business I have no problem advising I am carrying concealed and produce my concealed handgun permit. The State gives me the right and I will show some respect. However, I also open carry and if I am open carrying I will remind the law enforcement officer in Louisiana open carry does not rise to probable cause to detain nor does it create a disturbance of the peace situation which law enforcement often uses as an excuse to go after open carry.

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    "official business"? So you have to ask him that? To be sure, right? If you don't ask and he does not announce, then the gathering is not for official business?

    Another retarded law IMO.

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    How was this circumvented in the Katrina aftermath. Understand cops/national guard confiscated all weapons they came across.
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

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    Regular Member estcrh's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    How was this circumvented in the Katrina aftermath. Understand cops/national guard confiscated all weapons they came across.
    And during WWII Japanese people in the USA were rounded up and held in concentration camps, same principle. You can try suing after the fact, years later (40+) the Japanese people who were unlawfully confined were given a payment, "In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed into law the Civil Liberties Act, which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government and authorized a payment of $20,000 to each individual camp survivor." Maybe 40 years from now the people who had their guns illegally taken during Katrina will get a check, dont hold your breath.

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    Quote Originally Posted by estcrh View Post
    And during WWII Japanese people in the USA were rounded up and held in concentration camps, same principle. You can try suing after the fact, years later (40+) the Japanese people who were unlawfully confined were given a payment, "In 1988, President Ronald Reagan signed into law the Civil Liberties Act, which apologized for the internment on behalf of the U.S. government and authorized a payment of $20,000 to each individual camp survivor." Maybe 40 years from now the people who had their guns illegally taken during Katrina will get a check, dont hold your breath.
    The people can get their guns back from Katrina .. all you need is pre-Katrina triple notarized affidavits of ownership - from 3 people who do not know you. Easy.

    Sounds like the USSR and all the land they took from eastern Europeans ...

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    Sorry I am late to the party on this one. I had this very argument with 4 officers at the scene of the original stop and 3 officers after the fact.

    The short answer is, NO. You do not have present a CC permit if OCing and stopped by police.

    And now, the back story.

    I am a permit holder and was stopped while I was OC. The officer never asked for my permit and was extremely upset when he learned that I had one. All officers at the scene were of the understanding that it was my duty to inform the officer of my permit.

    The catch, as explained it to all 7 officers, was that I was not carrying in accordance with the above mentioned law, the officer never asked for my permit, and his approach was "to talk" with me.

    Needless to say officers at the scene were not happy when I stood my ground and told them they were wrong and that I would happily go to jail with them if they wanted the headache that goes along with it.

    After the fact, someone I know personally, "on the force" wanted to speak with me concerning how I "should" have handled the incident. I told him, that because we are friends, I would allow him the opportunity to read the law and comprehend what it says before calling me back.

    Turns out, I was right. Go figure. Of course every situation is different and everyone reacts differently to being stopped.

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    rmansu2, please indicate the provision of law that you are citing for the proposition that you have to have a gun on your person (OC or CC) to trigger the CHP's on-demand presentation requirement. As I read it, it only requires that you own a CHP; if you've never owned a gun, or even touched one outside of your CHP qualification, that is immaterial. It is written as if it operates as an obligation you assume in getting the permit. A silly application, and a bit of poor drafting that may well fail rational basis, but that's what I'm reading from the statute.

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    Seigi,
    Can you tell me where you read that? Here what I read. Only applies to CC. However, of asked, you are correct, you must produce it. You are not obligated to inform the officer of your possession of a permit while OC.

    R.S. 40:1379.3 Subsection H(2): The permit shall be retained by the permittee who shall immediately produce it upon the request of any law enforcement officer.

    R.S. 40:1379.3 Subsection I(2): A permittee armed with a handgun “in accordance with this Section” shall notify any police officer who approaches the permittee in an official manner or with an identified official purpose that he has a weapon on his person, submit to a pat down, and allow the officer to temporarily disarm him.

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    I misread your post. You specifically stated that they didn't ask for the permit. My mistake, sorry.

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    Seigi,
    I understand. It happens sometimes. But I also understand the OPs concern as I know a couple CC instructors who teach their class based on the premise that people only carry CC.

    They teach that anytime an officer approaches you, you have to inform him of your firearm and immediately produce a permit.

    The OC option has never once been mentioned in any of the classes I have attended, at least not by the instructor. I like to take the break times to talk to people about why they are taking the class and inform others of their rights to carry. It usually spars some class involvement.

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    Regular Member sraacke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmansu2 View Post
    The OC option has never once been mentioned in any of the classes I have attended, at least not by the instructor. I like to take the break times to talk to people about why they are taking the class and inform others of their rights to carry. It usually spars some class involvement.
    Louisiana Open Carry Awareness League (LOCAL) reaches out to CHP instructors regularly and over the years we have found several who discuss the option to Open Carry in their classes. We provide these instructors with handouts such as our informational pamphlets to give to their students when they get to the subject. So the instructor can bring it up, say something like, "yes it is legal in La but you need to know what you are doing and be aware of the potential problems. There is a group called LOCAL with lots of information on their website and they can help answer your questions regarding open carry because they are doing it everyday. Here is some information from them (our pamphlet) and if you are curious about open carry you can check them out online later."
    We have a list of CHP instructors we network with in the Training section of our forum at- http://laopencarry.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=17&t=24
    We regularly post their class announcements on Facebook and our forum so others know where to go for training. We have found that as we continue to set a positive example of responsible and safe open carry these instructors are willing to join us in our efforts to educate the public.
    Last edited by sraacke; 07-10-2014 at 08:18 AM.
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