Gallowmere
Regular Member
Yeah, I was kind of taken aback by that when I visited Oregon. That situation reeks of union lobbyist involvement to me though.
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Am I extreme to want to OC?
- Thread starter DanNabis
- Start date
Yeah, I was kind of taken aback by that when I visited Oregon. That situation reeks of union lobbyist involvement to me though.
Kopis
Regular Member
You can say "y'all" now. I have a good friend that moved down to memphis from boston. He says all the same stuff as you but the first time he tried to use y'all in a sentence it was so funny.
MSG Laigaie
Campaign Veteran
I lived/was stationed in the deep south for many, many years, to include Arkansas. I attended UALR. At one time in my life I was accused of pronouncing "bug" with two syllables.
since9
Campaign Veteran
It is never "extreme" to do what 90% of all states expressly allow by law.
I find that most people who are either not into guns or even alot that conceal will look at you weird if you want to OC.
I have only been OCing for about 8 days now but each time was over 30 minutes of OCing so I have some imput of what I notice. I noticed that most people either do not care or simply do not notice, my gun is not small so they either really do not care or don't notice. I have had the cops called on me today for the first time but it all went smooth. So I am saying be prepared if the cops come and be nice so you don't look like a person who just wants to BE EXTREME like you said, because if the first thing you start saying is "I don't HAVE TO" to a cop its going to make you look crazy, angry, and make you look like A-Hole to the cops.
My advice is just give ID and tell them you have ID before they even ask you because it will make you look 10000x better not only to them but to people who see you kindly give ID. Although you have nothing to prove showing ID is the best thing you can do. If the cop is acting like a A-Hole then you can be a A-Hole back but if they are nice I am just going to give ID because I don't care if they have it.
Its extreme to open carry only if you do it for the wrong reasons, I open carry for alot of reasons just make sure your reason is not something stupid and if you open carry remember that YOU are making a rep for alot of gun owners in YOUR TOWN. When I open carry I make sure that I do everything right and even beyond to make sure that I do not screw up and give OCers a bad name. If I see a kid with their parent I will walk around them instead of being close to them with my gun 1 foot away.
Simple things like that will make you look better like you have sense.
Two rules when OCing.
#1 Don't screw it up and make everyone else look bad
#2 Make sure you have the right reasons when someone is curious and ask you why, because if you give a dumb answer that will make all gun owners look crazy.
I have only been OCing for about 8 days now but each time was over 30 minutes of OCing so I have some imput of what I notice. I noticed that most people either do not care or simply do not notice, my gun is not small so they either really do not care or don't notice. I have had the cops called on me today for the first time but it all went smooth. So I am saying be prepared if the cops come and be nice so you don't look like a person who just wants to BE EXTREME like you said, because if the first thing you start saying is "I don't HAVE TO" to a cop its going to make you look crazy, angry, and make you look like A-Hole to the cops.
My advice is just give ID and tell them you have ID before they even ask you because it will make you look 10000x better not only to them but to people who see you kindly give ID. Although you have nothing to prove showing ID is the best thing you can do. If the cop is acting like a A-Hole then you can be a A-Hole back but if they are nice I am just going to give ID because I don't care if they have it.
Its extreme to open carry only if you do it for the wrong reasons, I open carry for alot of reasons just make sure your reason is not something stupid and if you open carry remember that YOU are making a rep for alot of gun owners in YOUR TOWN. When I open carry I make sure that I do everything right and even beyond to make sure that I do not screw up and give OCers a bad name. If I see a kid with their parent I will walk around them instead of being close to them with my gun 1 foot away.
Simple things like that will make you look better like you have sense.
Two rules when OCing.
#1 Don't screw it up and make everyone else look bad
#2 Make sure you have the right reasons when someone is curious and ask you why, because if you give a dumb answer that will make all gun owners look crazy.
PistolPackingMomma
Regular Member
*sigh*
stealthyeliminator
Regular Member
Have you considered that when people gladly hand over ID it teaches cops to ask for it next time? What if you calmly asserting your right to not ID would have caused the cop to second guess trying to ID the next OCer he encountered, which if it was me would most certainly not ID? Could make the situation for me worse if the cop is expecting me to ID without hesitation, just because "the last guy did." Now the cop may think I'm an ******* just because I don't ID, just because the last OCer set a precedent in his mind.
Just food for thought.
Also what does it tell people in the area when they see OCers being checked by the police? Doesn't it tell them that they need to be checked? Doesn't it make them think that some level of extra scrutiny is needed cause they choose to defend themselves? Doesn't it say that it's ok to selectively pick people out of the public and suspend their rights temporarily for "public safety?" I don't see anything good coming from IDing when not necessary other than, in some cases, less inconvenience on the part of the OCer. So, if the cost of unnecessarily IDing is worth betting on having less of a hassle with a cop, you go for it. I'll decline making that bet every time.
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SouthernBoy
Regular Member
And what if you don't have an ID on you when approached by an LEO? Perhaps you're just taking a walk and didn't feel like putting your wallet in you pocket. In my state, you are not required to have an ID on your person when OC'ing since the is the normal method of carrying a sidearm.
I have never been asked for an ID for simply carrying a firearm so I have no experience with this. It would probably catch me totally off guard if I was asked to show an ID.
I have never been asked for an ID for simply carrying a firearm so I have no experience with this. It would probably catch me totally off guard if I was asked to show an ID.
*snipped*
Uh, no. Not a very sound advice. The old "I have nothing to hide" schtick is such a stupid mentality. Go ahead and be "compliant", but please, do not give out that advice just to be convenient and not looking like an "A-hole".
Do you like being told to hide your gun just so you don't look like an A-hole? Or maybe for the sake of safety? Or maybe convenience? The anti-guns think you look like a total A-hole for open carrying, and the anti-liberty cops think you are an A-hole for exercising your right.
So why not just leave your firearm at home so you don't look like an A-hole?:shocker:
Read more, learn more about your rights and arm yourself with enough knowledge to react accordingly and not because of some percieved convenience nor how you will "look" to the police.
Uh, no. Not a very sound advice. The old "I have nothing to hide" schtick is such a stupid mentality. Go ahead and be "compliant", but please, do not give out that advice just to be convenient and not looking like an "A-hole".
Do you like being told to hide your gun just so you don't look like an A-hole? Or maybe for the sake of safety? Or maybe convenience? The anti-guns think you look like a total A-hole for open carrying, and the anti-liberty cops think you are an A-hole for exercising your right.
So why not just leave your firearm at home so you don't look like an A-hole?:shocker:
Read more, learn more about your rights and arm yourself with enough knowledge to react accordingly and not because of some percieved convenience nor how you will "look" to the police.
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MSG Laigaie
Campaign Veteran
My feelings exactly.
Give yourself some time to get used to exercising the Freedom you have discovered. A few (most) of us have been doing this for a great deal of time and may have a bit of insight for you. You may take this insight to heart or disregard. Make life easy for yourself and give up a few small liberties for convenience? No, not me, I fought long and hard for the Document, it is MINE.
mp06011999
Regular Member
"Am I extreme to want to oc?"
Hm, see if this helps you to answer that....
Just had a friend and his wife visiting us in Vegas from SoCal. She said that while she was not opposed to my oc as we all went down on Freemont she would not allow her husband to do it. She said she respected my right to do so, but thought it extreme.
Okay, so I asked her that if someone were breaking into her home there in SoCal in the middle of the night and she were all alone would she like the ability to grab a gun to defend herself. Without hesitation she answered, "Absolutely!" So then I asked her, "Why, what are you trying to protect - your person or your property in your house?" She said, "My person. I'm not gonna shoot someone over property." "Perfect answer", I said, "And I believe most people would agree, even the anti-gunners, that in a home invasion they'd love to have a gun to defend themselves, their person." I continued, "And I have yet to find a way to leave "my person" at home when I go out. Therefore, I wish to have that same ability, to defend my person, when I go out."
She said, "Yea, but how often would you be in a situation where you would need a gun? It's just a matter of not putting yourself in a situation like that to begin with. Avoid bad areas." I said, "Really? So only bad areas require defending yourself? You mean like "my own home" as we just discussed? Or how about the kids and staff in Newtown, Connecticut? Did they put themselves in harms way by being at school, a gun-free zone by the way, in a quaint little town that is NOT Vegas or L.A. - just as did the folks in Virginia Tech and the folks in Columbine or the folks at the Batman theater release or the employees at the many Post Office killings and so on? How dare they go to work and school and live in small "safe" towns?" She said, "But those are isolated incidents". And I said, "Try telling that to the victims and their families. You NEVER know when you'll be a victim and therefore I choose to do ALL I can to avoid that. My open carry says loud and clear that I am NOT a helpless victim waiting to happen. That I have made a conscious decision, well ahead of time, to use deadly force to defend my person and this should be evident to any potential attackers when they see my openly displayed intended tool of choice."
The conversation went on into different points, but I thought this one applicable to this discussion. Maybe a quote or two in there that someone else can use.
Hm, see if this helps you to answer that....
Just had a friend and his wife visiting us in Vegas from SoCal. She said that while she was not opposed to my oc as we all went down on Freemont she would not allow her husband to do it. She said she respected my right to do so, but thought it extreme.
Okay, so I asked her that if someone were breaking into her home there in SoCal in the middle of the night and she were all alone would she like the ability to grab a gun to defend herself. Without hesitation she answered, "Absolutely!" So then I asked her, "Why, what are you trying to protect - your person or your property in your house?" She said, "My person. I'm not gonna shoot someone over property." "Perfect answer", I said, "And I believe most people would agree, even the anti-gunners, that in a home invasion they'd love to have a gun to defend themselves, their person." I continued, "And I have yet to find a way to leave "my person" at home when I go out. Therefore, I wish to have that same ability, to defend my person, when I go out."
She said, "Yea, but how often would you be in a situation where you would need a gun? It's just a matter of not putting yourself in a situation like that to begin with. Avoid bad areas." I said, "Really? So only bad areas require defending yourself? You mean like "my own home" as we just discussed? Or how about the kids and staff in Newtown, Connecticut? Did they put themselves in harms way by being at school, a gun-free zone by the way, in a quaint little town that is NOT Vegas or L.A. - just as did the folks in Virginia Tech and the folks in Columbine or the folks at the Batman theater release or the employees at the many Post Office killings and so on? How dare they go to work and school and live in small "safe" towns?" She said, "But those are isolated incidents". And I said, "Try telling that to the victims and their families. You NEVER know when you'll be a victim and therefore I choose to do ALL I can to avoid that. My open carry says loud and clear that I am NOT a helpless victim waiting to happen. That I have made a conscious decision, well ahead of time, to use deadly force to defend my person and this should be evident to any potential attackers when they see my openly displayed intended tool of choice."
The conversation went on into different points, but I thought this one applicable to this discussion. Maybe a quote or two in there that someone else can use.
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marshaul
Campaign Veteran
I promise there is at least one pro-liberty guy who thinks he's an "A-hole" for bending over and, well, being one
p).The point being, you can't win. There will always be someone who thinks you're an "A-hole". The sooner you realize this, and start living your life for yourself, the happier you will be.
(I wrote more, but I'm gonna cross-post the whole thing in the thread about his stop.)
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/newreply.php?p=2059677&noquote=1
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OC for ME
Regular Member
Your vast experience will certainly sway those who read your words. OCers with far less experience OCing have been able to say no to a cop without being a jerk.
Agent provocateur.....per chance?
mp06011999
Regular Member
I have oc'd past cops many times, making it a point to direct my strong side towards them. Never an issue. Actually much easier than typing on this iPad. Lol
Also, my "crazy" plan should I get stopped by police is to plead the 5th. Wow, how dare I exercise my rights.
How ironic, we in this country wish to continually praise soldiers with the mantra, "thank you for your service and fighting for my freedom" as we so quickly give that away time and time again. In essence, peeing in their faces.
...and now you know
"Don't pee in a soldier's face - exercise YOUR rights"
Also, my "crazy" plan should I get stopped by police is to plead the 5th. Wow, how dare I exercise my rights.
How ironic, we in this country wish to continually praise soldiers with the mantra, "thank you for your service and fighting for my freedom" as we so quickly give that away time and time again. In essence, peeing in their faces.
...and now you know
"Don't pee in a soldier's face - exercise YOUR rights"
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SouthernBoy
Regular Member
Not allow her husband to OC? Where in the hell does she get off telling her husband what he can and cannot do? He needs to grow a set if he allows this sort of behavior from his wife.
BTW, excellent post. You did very well.
mp06011999
Regular Member
Thanks Partner. Yea, I told him that if he wished to conceal, while illegal, he should have plenty of room for it where his balls used to be. Ouch! But we all laughed.
Another friend of mine just email replied to my post stating that he believes open carry makes you the target of a criminal as you are now the known threat rather than concealing and being able to surprise your attacker. Below is my reply to the question as to which is better:
I'm guessing if there were any real world study on it it'd show a much closer result to 50 / 50 than anyone would like. But with an undeniable result that not carrying at all means no protection at all. And when open carry is more legal (read as "easier") than concealing then it tips the scales in favor of oc. Obviously the best answer would be legalizing constitutional carry in any fashion one chooses. And then like you said, let the criminals guess. Sadly, as it is, they have a pretty good idea that most are not carrying. And criminals thinking that is exactly what I'm counting on - making me the hard target (obviously carrying) that they pass up in favor of the many they have reason to believe are not carrying. Thus, hopefully nipping it in the bud.
Honestly, from real world experience we know that uniformed cops and marked cop cars DETER crime. Unmarked cops & cars CATCH crimes. I do not wish to be part of the CATCH.
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Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
Great points. I myself make sure to emphasize that my sidearm is ONLY to protect the lives of my loved ones and myself (and children, the only innocent humans among us).
As to "isolated incidents", tell her that science treats ALL data points as isolated incidents, then takes the incidents that occur under given conditions to show a TREND. So yes, all those killings were "isolated incidents" that support the overall TREND of "gun-free zones" being "criminal empowerment zones" (AKA "killing zones", "shoot fish in a barrel" zones, etc.).
I promise there is at least one pro-liberty guy who thinks he's an "A-hole" for bending over and, well, being one
The point being, you can't win. There will always be someone who thinks you're an "A-hole". The sooner you realize this, and start living your life for yourself, the happier you will be.
(I wrote more, but I'm gonna cross-post the whole thing in the thread about his stop.)
http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/newreply.php?p=2059677&noquote=1
"You have enemies? Good. That means you've stood up for something, sometime in your life." - Winston Churchill (British Prime Minister)
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SouthernBoy
Regular Member
Yeah, it was the "not allowing him to carry" that rubbed me. I'll bet he doesn't tell her that she can't wear finger nail polish when she is out and about.
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mp06011999
Regular Member
He is an old dear friend from childhood who I think the world of. She's his "princess" bride.
To each his own....
SouthernBoy
Regular Member
He is an old dear friend from childhood who I think the world of. She's his "princess" bride.
To each his own....
I completely understand this. I have some friends who are similar in their ways. Fine people and even though we may disagree on a few issues, I do count them as close friends.