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Thread: Park Ranger in Roosevelt

  1. #1
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    Thumbs up Park Ranger in Roosevelt

    With all the negative publicity the feds get lately I thought I'd share a good experience I had on the Peak to Peak a couple of weeks ago. It was just after a big spring snow, my son and I wanted to test out his new Marlin model 60 and cycle through some ammo on the others. Our favorite spot was snowed out so we went to plan B spot which had some tracks we could follow in. We parked near the highway to scout the area and it turned out the tracks were caused by a PR who was just sitting in his truck about 50 yards in.

    As we walked up he got out of his truck. I imagine he was thinking we were going hiking or something similar and he was a bit surprised when I asked if we could target shoot this close to the highway due to the conditions. He said it wasn't a problem and asked what kind of targets we had, I explained we had some cardboard and a metal spinner, and a cheap plastic-type swivel that does a poor job of resealing bullet holes. He had an issue with the latter so I said no problem I would leave in the car.

    He then asked if we knew the rules and regs (I actually have them printed out but buried under all the gear) and gave us a copy while inquiring about the 4 steps of gun safety which I recited flawlessly... On reflection I should have put my 14 year old on the spot and had HIM recite the steps. He does know them of course but I'm sure he would have turned beet red and stammered, which would have been priceless

    What impressed me was that we were treated with respect the entire time, not once inquiring anything about our motives, running our names or treating us suspiciously. It made me really happy to live here. I regrettably didn't get his name (didn't think about it until after the fact) but he went on his way and we had the next 2 hours to ourselves. It was a beautiful warm day in the snow and the best day at the range in recent memory. As for the Marlin? 300 rounds without a hitch and a great addition to the family.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    With all the negative publicity the feds get lately I thought I'd share a good experience I had on the Peak to Peak a couple of weeks ago. It was just after a big spring snow, my son and I wanted to test out his new Marlin model 60 and cycle through some ammo on the others. Our favorite spot was snowed out so we went to plan B spot which had some tracks we could follow in. We parked near the highway to scout the area and it turned out the tracks were caused by a PR who was just sitting in his truck about 50 yards in.

    As we walked up he got out of his truck. I imagine he was thinking we were going hiking or something similar and he was a bit surprised when I asked if we could target shoot this close to the highway due to the conditions. He said it wasn't a problem and asked what kind of targets we had, I explained we had some cardboard and a metal spinner, and a cheap plastic-type swivel that does a poor job of resealing bullet holes. He had an issue with the latter so I said no problem I would leave in the car.

    He then asked if we knew the rules and regs (I actually have them printed out but buried under all the gear) and gave us a copy while inquiring about the 4 steps of gun safety which I recited flawlessly... On reflection I should have put my 14 year old on the spot and had HIM recite the steps. He does know them of course but I'm sure he would have turned beet red and stammered, which would have been priceless

    What impressed me was that we were treated with respect the entire time, not once inquiring anything about our motives, running our names or treating us suspiciously. It made me really happy to live here. I regrettably didn't get his name (didn't think about it until after the fact) but he went on his way and we had the next 2 hours to ourselves. It was a beautiful warm day in the snow and the best day at the range in recent memory. As for the Marlin? 300 rounds without a hitch and a great addition to the family.
    So your quite happy with being interrogated, bullied into not using the targets of your own choosing, and have to prove you could recite some stupid 'rules'? Then you glad he did not further violate your rights by unlawfully detaining you and demanding ID?

    Interesting definition of good!

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    So your quite happy with being interrogated, bullied into not using the targets of your own choosing, and have to prove you could recite some stupid 'rules'? Then you glad he did not further violate your rights by unlawfully detaining you and demanding ID?

    Interesting definition of good!
    Sheesh. If you won the lottery, would you be upset that it cost you $1 to do so?

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    So your quite happy with being interrogated, bullied into not using the targets of your own choosing, and have to prove you could recite some stupid 'rules'? Then you glad he did not further violate your rights by unlawfully detaining you and demanding ID?

    Interesting definition of good!
    Well I could have played ignorant or waited until he left. Either way I would have enjoyed a good day of shooting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    So your quite happy with being interrogated, bullied into not using the targets of your own choosing, and have to prove you could recite some stupid 'rules'? Then you glad he did not further violate your rights by unlawfully detaining you and demanding ID?

    Interesting definition of good!
    The OP initiated the contact. The OP consented to the interaction. The OP did as he thought best, not what you think is best.

    Yeah, I would have put my son on the spot as well.....maybe next time.

    Shooting in the snow.....brrr, no way Jose, not me.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    It was 60 degrees. Keep in mind I was only able to get about 75 yards off the road. The law says 150 yards but I thought I would ask the Ranger since he was right there and the possibility of getting "permission" seemed a better idea at the time than trudging all the gear another 75 yards in 2 feet of snow.

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    The OP initiated the contact. The OP consented to the interaction. The OP did as he thought best, not what you think is best.

    Yeah, I would have put my son on the spot as well.....maybe next time.

    Shooting in the snow.....brrr, no way Jose, not me.
    So your comments about my reply are somehow more valid than my comments about his post.

    Interesting.......

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dario View Post
    It was 60 degrees. Keep in mind I was only able to get about 75 yards off the road. The law says 150 yards but I thought I would ask the Ranger since he was right there and the possibility of getting "permission" seemed a better idea at the time than trudging all the gear another 75 yards in 2 feet of snow.
    Sounds like a good day at the "range." When it comes to shooting on a improvised range I would have asked permission too. The PR sounded reasonable and I imagine he quizzed you more for your son's benefit and not his. I assign no ill intent on his part.

    Did he happen to stop by later? Or did you not see him for the remainder of the day?

    The following is just me, so take it for what you think it is worth. I would have asked if it would be permitted to contact him at the end of your shooting session, as a courtesy, to let him know that you were done shooting and hitting the road. My experience is that cops (even PRs) appreciate being kept in the loop for letting a little "lawlessness" (not being 150' back from the road) get by when there is no real reason to say no. Make and leave a good impression, reasonable cops remember reasonable citizens. Also, a good learning experience that not all cops, not by a long shot, are by default unreasonable idgits.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    So your comments about my reply are somehow more valid than my comments about his post.

    Interesting.......
    You assigned behaviors and/or acts to the PR that were not reported to have been observed by the OP. Your criticism was unwarranted, in my view, given the facts as provided by the OP.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    You assigned behaviors and/or acts to the PR that were not reported to have been observed by the OP. Your criticism was unwarranted, in my view, given the facts as provided by the OP.
    Might want to check your reading comprehension. I offered no criticism on the matter, just an observation. You, on the other hand made a judgement based on a false presumption.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Sheesh. If you won the lottery, would you be upset that it cost you $1 to do so?
    Anyone is free to perform tricks for authority figures when seeking dispensation of the rules (I doubt the P.R. had legal authority to grant in the first place).
    Sort of like the little dogie begging fro a scrap and the dinner table (in violation of previously established rules to the contrary) being made to beg, roll over, play dead, etc. I'm sure the dogie thinks that's good too. And maybe it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    Might want to check your reading comprehension. I offered no criticism on the matter, just an observation. You, on the other hand made a judgement based on a false presumption.
    Of course you did. I am not the only one who read your criticism. Tone and tenor are key here. Your initial post is spot on in far too many cop/citizen interactions. In this interaction, not so much.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Of course you did. I am not the only one who read your criticism. Tone and tenor are key here. Your initial post is spot on in far too many cop/citizen interactions. In this interaction, not so much.
    In this interaction, not so much
    I'm sorry...you were present?


    Not sure why you think your interpretation of the OP's words are superior to anyone Else's?


    I am not the only one who read your criticism.
    Oh noes, someone has a different viewpoint? Oh, the horror!

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    LEO discretion aka common sense

    LEOs exercise discretion on a regular basis. Whether one agrees with the practice or not, law enforcement is not a zero tolerance profession. We provide the training, we provide the equipment, the common sense needed to properly apply those the individual officer must furnish themselves.

    The ranger was asked for discretion on not enforcing the letter of the distance law in view of mitigating circumstances. The distance law is related to safety. So the questions were reasonable in determining his favorable answer.

    But someone with a chip on their shoulder would still snatch defeat out of the jaws of victory. Amazing, just amazing...
    Last edited by 6-shooter; 04-28-2014 at 05:37 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 6-shooter View Post
    LEOs exercise discretion on a regular basis. Whether one agrees with the practice or not, it is not a zero tolerance profession. We provide the training, we provide the equipment, the common sense needed to properly apply those the individual must furnish their own.

    The ranger was asked for discretion on not enforcing the letter of the distance law in view of mitigating circumstances. The distance law is related to safety. So the questions were reasonable in determining his answer.
    I would agree if the OP would have asked if he would be arrested for violating the law in that specific situation. He did not, he asked if he could violate the law.

    Something no LEO can authorize (in normal situations).

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    Dispensation.

    The PR, I would like to think, has the authority to consider all circumstances when deciding his proper course of action.

    In this particular case you are on the wrong side of reasonable in my view.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    LOL LEO trained to common sense discretion. LEO discretion is on the coattails of the court's judicial discretion as an officer of the court. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    LOL LEO trained to common sense discretion. LEO discretion is on the coattails of the court's judicial discretion as an officer of the court. The conspiracy of ignorance masquerades as common sense.
    Another singular, and obvious, observation. But, when it works in your favor "on the side of the road" it is a good thing.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Dispensation.

    The PR, I would like to think, has the authority to consider all circumstances when deciding his proper course of action.

    In this particular case you are on the wrong side of reasonable in my view.
    Would you agree that P.R. #2 would have the same discretion when arriving an hour later (perhaps after complaints) and arresting OP for a violation of the law? Not sure how convincing would sound: "But the other guy dressed like you said I could." Name? No I did not get a name." "But he was dressed just like you"

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    Possible, not probable.

    Tedious.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Possible, not probable.

    Tedious.
    You're personally antiquated with P.R. #2? Wow, you sure do get around.


    Tedious.
    Yes, yes it is.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by notalawyer View Post
    You're personally antiquated with P.R. #2? Wow, you sure do get around.

    Yes, yes it is.
    I am acquainted with antiquated

    very old and no longer useful, popular, or accepted : very old-fashioned or obsolete
    This would be me to almost a tee if My Dear Wife is to be believed.

    We do hold similar views of LE, we differ in this instance.

    +1 to you Sir
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    I am acquainted with antiquated

    This would be me to almost a tee if My Dear Wife is to be believed.

    We do hold similar views of LE, we differ in this instance.

    +1 to you Sir
    Yeah, I was raised in a time when Officer Friendly really was... Too bad that had to change for many.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    Sheesh. If you won the lottery, would you be upset that it cost you $1 to do so?
    But I don't see no video .....

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    This reminds me of the lawyers starving while debating what a doorknob is...

    Sounds like good judgement and interaction. Personally I don't get prickly with officers unless they are being so with me, and at that not to a point of begging a "resisting" charge. If they are overstepping the bounds and causing harm, I can, have and will push back legally.

    As for the OPs approach cut him some slack - he's from Boulder...

    Speaking of which, isn't having the Republican State Assembly at CU Boulder kind of like having the Council of Elrond in Mordor?

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