Park Ranger in Roosevelt

notalawyer said:

You're personally antiquated with P.R. #2? Wow, you sure do get around.

Yes, yes it is.

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I am acquainted with antiquated

very old and no longer useful, popular, or accepted : very old-fashioned or obsolete

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This would be me to almost a tee if My Dear Wife is to be believed.

We do hold similar views of LE, we differ in this instance.

+1 to you Sir

OC for ME said:

I am acquainted with antiquated

This would be me to almost a tee if My Dear Wife is to be believed.

We do hold similar views of LE, we differ in this instance.

+1 to you Sir

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Yeah, I was raised in a time when Officer Friendly really was... Too bad that had to change for many.

BB62 said:

Sheesh. If you won the lottery, would you be upset that it cost you $1 to do so?

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But I don't see no video .....

This reminds me of the lawyers starving while debating what a doorknob is...

Sounds like good judgement and interaction. Personally I don't get prickly with officers unless they are being so with me, and at that not to a point of begging a "resisting" charge. If they are overstepping the bounds and causing harm, I can, have and will push back legally.

As for the OPs approach cut him some slack - he's from Boulder...

Speaking of which, isn't having the Republican State Assembly at CU Boulder kind of like having the Council of Elrond in Mordor?

Dario said:

He then asked if we knew the rules and regs (I actually have them printed out but buried under all the gear) and gave us a copy...

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Nothing wrong with that. Definitely within the bounds of his authority.

...while inquiring about the 4 steps of gun safety...

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Whoops! He stepped outside the bounds of his authority on that one. Don't get me wrong -- I agree with the Jeff Coopers four rules. However, since when were they incorporated into Park rules, regs, or procedures? Since when is a Park Ranger EVER had the authority to give someone a knowledge test in order to exercise their Second Amendment rights?

What if he'd asked you how you safe your weapon and you replied, "Drop mag, rack slide" instead what he was looking for, which may have been, "thumb safety?" What if your "safety" is only a decocking lever? What if you safety only works when a round is in the chamber and the hammer is cocked?

...which I recited flawlessly...

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Glad to hear it, but you shouldn't have had to. Legally, you should be able to ignore any such unlawful requests and be on your merry way without interference.

I'm not one to get prickly with law enforcement either, but I probably would have responded with a chuckle and something like, "Whose four steps? Mine or Jeff Coopers?" It would have let him know I knew what he was talking about without cooperating with his intrusive questions.

If he'd responded with something like, "Ok, let's hear your four rules," I'd have given him the following:

Rule 1: In order to protect the sanctity of law, we must first protect the integrity of the supreme law of the land, that is, our Constitution.

Rule 2: In their great wisdom, our Founding Fathers incorporated the oath of office into the Constitution itself. Today, adherence to that oath is required by all officers, whether civil, military, or law enforcement.

Rule 3: Supporting and defending the Constitution requires all officers to....

At this point he'd probably waive his hand and wish us a good day. If not, I'd feign wide eyes and mutter "golly gees!" as he stumbled over Cooper's four rules of gun safety. While noting his name tag and badge number for a letter up his chain of command. Let them deal with his foolishness. Someone along the chain is bound to have enough brain cells to send a "knock it off" memo back down.

since9 said:

Nothing wrong with that. Definitely within the bounds of his authority.



Whoops! He stepped outside the bounds of his authority on that one. Don't get me wrong -- I agree with the Jeff Coopers four rules. However, since when were they incorporated into Park rules, regs, or procedures? Since when is a Park Ranger EVER had the authority to give someone a knowledge test in order to exercise their Second Amendment rights?

What if he'd asked you how you safe your weapon and you replied, "Drop mag, rack slide" instead what he was looking for, which may have been, "thumb safety?" What if your "safety" is only a decocking lever? What if you safety only works when a round is in the chamber and the hammer is cocked?



Glad to hear it, but you shouldn't have had to. Legally, you should be able to ignore any such unlawful requests and be on your merry way without interference.

I'm not one to get prickly with law enforcement either, but I probably would have responded with a chuckle and something like, "Whose four steps? Mine or Jeff Coopers?" It would have let him know I knew what he was talking about without cooperating with his intrusive questions.

If he'd responded with something like, "Ok, let's hear your four rules," I'd have given him the following:

Rule 1: In order to protect the sanctity of law, we must first protect the integrity of the supreme law of the land, that is, our Constitution.

Rule 2: In their great wisdom, our Founding Fathers incorporated the oath of office into the Constitution itself. Today, adherence to that oath is required by all officers, whether civil, military, or law enforcement.

Rule 3: Supporting and defending the Constitution requires all officers to....

At this point he'd probably waive his hand and wish us a good day. If not, I'd feign wide eyes and mutter "golly gees!" as he stumbled over Cooper's four rules of gun safety. While noting his name tag and badge number for a letter up his chain of command. Let them deal with his foolishness. Someone along the chain is bound to have enough brain cells to send a "knock it off" memo back down.

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I wasn't getting an attitude from him that he would have overstepped his authority if I didn't answer his questions to his liking. I'd like to think I' have enough life experience and seen enough youtube videos to know a friendly encounter vs fishing for "evidence." I could be wrong of course but it seemed more like he was being generally helpful and if I answered incorrectly I honestly believe he would have informed us on proper gun safety, given us another flier and been on his way based on the fact that none of his other questions were personally intrusive and his demeanor was friendly (remember I approached him). If he did start in with asking for ID or to look in my car you can bet my spidey senses would have kicked in because ultimately, except for possibly a few yards that one would have to physically measure from the road, we were well within our rights.

Dario said:

I wasn't getting an attitude from him that he would have overstepped his authority if I didn't answer his questions to his liking. I'd like to think I' have enough life experience and seen enough youtube videos to know a friendly encounter vs fishing for "evidence." I could be wrong of course but it seemed more like he was being generally helpful and if I answered incorrectly I honestly believe he would have informed us on proper gun safety, given us another flier and been on his way based on the fact that none of his other questions were personally intrusive and his demeanor was friendly (remember I approached him). If he did start in with asking for ID or to look in my car you can bet my spidey senses would have kicked in because ultimately, except for possibly a few yards that one would have to physically measure from the road, we were well within our rights.

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You're right of course, and I wasn't there.

Personally, I'm not one to take kindly to anyone lecturing me on something I already. I would not be impolite, and I would be respectful, but he'd get the message that I wasn't in the mood for a lesson.

I have no problem opening myself to criticism here, though. Then again, that's one of the purposes of this forum. When I'm going about my business in public, I welcome a friendly chat. Just not a friendly lecture.