carolina guy
Regular Member
Perhaps the homeowner could hear him moving towards the door? Humans do have very good directional hearing.
-
We are now running on a new, and hopefully much-improved, server. In addition we are also on new forum software. Any move entails a lot of technical details and I suspect we will encounter a few issues as the new server goes live. Please be patient with us. It will be worth it! :) Please help by posting all issues here.
-
If you are having trouble seeing the forum then you may need to clear your browser's DNS cache. Click here for instructions on how to do that
-
Please review the Forum Rules frequently as we are constantly trying to improve the forum for our members and visitors.
okay gun folks...is this homeowner guilty or not guilty ??
- Thread starter onus
- Start date
Perhaps the homeowner could hear him moving towards the door? Humans do have very good directional hearing.
SFCRetired
Regular Member
Leaving aside the law and whether or not he felt threatened; what is going to convict this man of, at the very least, manslaughter is his own mouth. I would be more than willing to bet that the prosecutor is going to play up his utterances in the days leading up to the shooting. And knowing the average juror, even in a place like Montana, they will buy into the emotional appeals and ignore the law.
Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
Exactly why one shouldn't have funny little signs on their doors or funny little messages engraved on their barrel bushings.
"Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again!" sounds funny for someone with a little sense of humor and utmost respect for the Rights of the individual (AKA "Freedom-loving individuals with a sense of humor"), but would be played up in court.
"Smile! Wait for the flash!" on a barrel bushing is another example, out of an infinite number of possibilities limited only by the creativity of the individual and the amount of space available.
It's the reason I'm not going to be putting up a cute little 1911 cut-out with the words "This house doesn't dial 911".
Armed LACs should heed the following: "Anything you say, write, or post can and WILL be used against you in a court filled with ignorant peers."
Last edited:
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
What if my barrel bushing said, "Please stop. " ?
" ?
Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
What if my barrel bushing said, "Please stop.
I don't know how well the sad face would fit on anything other than an extended bushing, but you might be on to something. *starts searching for barrel bushing photos*
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
Last edited:
MontanaResident
Regular Member
Well, you could use the recoil plug too:
But sad.
Where can I get one of those recoil plugs. :banana:
It would be nice, to let some bad guy know - it's nothing personal; that I just like living and want to continue to do so.
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
OC for ME
Regular Member
OK.
Home Owner: If you take one more step towards me I'll kill you.
Thug: [takes a step towards Home Owner]
Home Owner: [BANG!]
Premeditated?
carolina guy
Regular Member
No, not premeditated. This "what-if" dialogue occurred DURING the incident, not prior to it.
Kopis
Regular Member
Exactly why one shouldn't have funny little signs on their doors or funny little messages engraved on their barrel bushings.
"Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again!" sounds funny for someone with a little sense of humor and utmost respect for the Rights of the individual (AKA "Freedom-loving individuals with a sense of humor"), but would be played up in court.
"Smile! Wait for the flash!" on a barrel bushing is another example, out of an infinite number of possibilities limited only by the creativity of the individual and the amount of space available.
It's the reason I'm not going to be putting up a cute little 1911 cut-out with the words "This house doesn't dial 911".
Armed LACs should heed the following: "Anything you say, write, or post can and WILL be used against you in a court filled with ignorant peers."
yes, a lot of things can sound cute or funny until an attorney is showing you your firearm in court and asking you to read the bushing engraving "smile and wait for the flash" or the yard sign "Trespassers will be shot, survivors will be shot again!".
I was in a car accident many years ago. I rear ended a car stopped on a dark interstate at night. She alleged i was driving 140mph in my little 90hp vw diesel and i alleged she was sitting still and i was doing hte speed limit. Anyway, i had put up a post on the VW forum about the accident and mentioned "some retarded lady was stopped on the interstate". That attorney grilled me for a long time about that and my character for calling her "retarded". Heck, i was still in college, i never thought twice about it.
Last edited:
OC for ME
Regular Member
Technically, it is a notification of a premeditated intent to shoot a thug, that thug just happens to be the unlucky thug for that day.
wabbit
Regular Member
thanks for the discussion on this but i have a question which has not been addressed in the article or by the members:
1. acknowledged it was dark in the garage.
2. how did the homeowner see with their cheapo baby monitor someone was in there?
3. no one has discussed how the victim was able to see inside the garage to even see property, worth anything, they were alleged to try to steal?
4. Why hasn't the news released conversations from the victim's friend(s) who were allegedly with him at the time of the murder. especially since they are now accusing the victim of pervious crimes of breaking and entering other garages!
Finally, this story (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/drugs-factor-montana-garage-killing-cops-article-1.1782604) leads me to believe the police botched the initial investigation as they apparently didn't do a blood test to see if the shooter was under the influence at the time of the shooting which now makes it even more interesting for the prosecutor.
LOL...the shooter was upset because in previous thief(s) he lost drug(s) and paraphernalia...and he wonders why the police didn't give a rat's crap!!!
wabbit
1. acknowledged it was dark in the garage.
2. how did the homeowner see with their cheapo baby monitor someone was in there?
3. no one has discussed how the victim was able to see inside the garage to even see property, worth anything, they were alleged to try to steal?
4. Why hasn't the news released conversations from the victim's friend(s) who were allegedly with him at the time of the murder. especially since they are now accusing the victim of pervious crimes of breaking and entering other garages!
Finally, this story (http://www.nydailynews.com/news/crime/drugs-factor-montana-garage-killing-cops-article-1.1782604) leads me to believe the police botched the initial investigation as they apparently didn't do a blood test to see if the shooter was under the influence at the time of the shooting which now makes it even more interesting for the prosecutor.
LOL...the shooter was upset because in previous thief(s) he lost drug(s) and paraphernalia...and he wonders why the police didn't give a rat's crap!!!
wabbit
Last edited:
carolina guy
Regular Member
I think that is commonly called a "warning".
marshaul
Campaign Veteran
Government non-recognition of the rights of contraband-possessing misdemeanants is one of the major forces driving violence peripheral to drug use/trade, which is itself the major source of gun violence in this country. (What recourse other than violence do such individuals have to aggression they fall victim to? Do you expect human nature to suddenly change, and people to not care about recourse and redress simply because they happen to be a contraband-possessing potential misdemeanant?)
Gun violence rates are, of course, used to attack your RKBA. This is why I have long argued that gun owners are the group, aside from drug users themselves, most negatively and unjustly affected by prohibition.
So, I generally caution folks against championing this sort of thing.
Jeff Hayes
Regular Member
now some of the rest of the story is coming out: apparently questioned two other teenagers, other than the exchange students, for 'garage hopping' activities.
http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2014/05/montana_homeowner_faces_homici.html
ipse
http://www.nola.com/news/index.ssf/2014/05/montana_homeowner_faces_homici.html
ipse
Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
Great "journalism" (/sarcasm)
Bolded parts: images meant to paint homeowner in the worst light possible while making the thief look like a saint ("wandered" instead of "trespassed", "looking for alcohol" instead of "looking TO STEAL").
I'll admit the homeowner was a bit reckless, but any more of this "journalism" and I'd begin to expect pictures of this punk to be plastered all over the internet as though he were some kind of martyr.
Bolded parts: images meant to paint homeowner in the worst light possible while making the thief look like a saint ("wandered" instead of "trespassed", "looking for alcohol" instead of "looking TO STEAL").
I'll admit the homeowner was a bit reckless, but any more of this "journalism" and I'd begin to expect pictures of this punk to be plastered all over the internet as though he were some kind of martyr.
Last edited:
You are right. The Missoulian is a very liberal newspaper and they have staked their position on this case.
Their headline said the teenage "didn't burglarize the house" but then when you read the article the affidavit clearly says the teenagers friend and him had burglarize numerous homes by entering their garage and stealing items. The friend who lived said the teenager entered the garage with the intent to steal something.
The stupid liberal Missoulian though says "he didn't steal anything".....yeah, because he was stopped before he could !!!
Rusty Young Man
Regular Member
I agree wholeheartedly. Mens rea was present since the punk INTENDED to steal, and the homeowner acted against another theft; the degree to which the homeowner acted is another matter.
By their logic:
A serial killer should not be prosecuted for an attempted murder if he is stopped before he can effect it.
A serial rapist should not be prosecuted for an attempted rape if he is stopped before he can effect it.
Ad infinitum.