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Thread: Annoyance with Anti-Gunners.

  1. #1
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    Annoyance with Anti-Gunners.

    This story is not about me, it is about a friend of mine who OCs. I am only telling this incident because it is another account of just how foolish anti-gunners really are and how they only make it harder for themselves.

    My friend has been looking for a new house, he and his wife found one in town that they really liked and ha gone to look at the place. The seller was at the house when the Realtor gave them the first tour, and like always my friend was carrying his firearm. Everything seemed to have gone smoothly. A week later they called back to get a second look at the house and they were hit with the words "The seller is uncomfortable with you carrying a gun." And that the seller was no longer considering them as buyers. All because he carried a firearm, she has decided that they are not good enough to buy her house.

    Now as you can imagine my friend is a bit pissed, heck I am pissed as well because of how they were treated and I was not even involved. The funny thing is that the house has been on the market for over 3 years and the owner is asking way to much for a 50+ year old house, and she turned away the only people to show interest in the house. Because cause of her "uncomfortable feeling" she missed out on selling her house.

    Now that I shared it and all I guess you guys can read and have a good laugh.

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    Regular Member Gallowmere's Avatar
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    I'd be sure to let them know, "Eh, it's still a buyer's market. We'll likely find a better deal within the week anyway. Thank you, and goodbye."
    "Now, why believe in anything they praise,
    When one hand holds them the victor,
    While the other holds the shovel to their graves?"
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    LOL! What difference would it possibly make? She's selling the house and moving away, no? Very silly. I think maybe she just doesn't want to sell. Wasting the realtor's time and probably a good amount of her own money.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Put in a bid at the asking price and have an inspection rider. Have the friend carry and do the inspection...then find a zillion things wrong and cause the cancellation of the contract .... do the inspection as late as possible so that the deal falls through by the end of summer..

    Now 4 yrs on the market.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Irritating but that is freedom. They have the right to deny transferring their property to those they disagree with.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member dakatak87's Avatar
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    Would some form of retribution be made if they were denied sale because of race or religion?

    Sadly, bigotry will never fully go away. We can continue to educate the people about the 2A.
    The only sensible gun law is the 2nd Amendment. Anything else is an infringement.

    "The road to tyranny is paved with compromise."

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Irritating but that is freedom. They have the right to deny transferring their property to those they disagree with.
    I think with land sales, people have the cash .. you MUST sell.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I think with land sales, people have the cash .. you MUST sell.
    You reside in CT and as such CT may have such a anti-liberty law on the books.....it is CT after all. In MO, no such law exists.....we seem to be a wee bit more liberty minded here in MO.

    Being annoyed is on the citizen who chooses to be annoyed, not the citizen who is annoying. As was previously stated, walk away, there are other houses on the market.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I think with land sales, people have the cash .. you MUST sell.
    Not the case in any state I know of... perhaps you could link us to this law in your state. Typically, when a house is listed, the seller will sign a contract with a broker "to find a willing and able buyer". If such a person is found, the commision is due even if the seller refuses to sell.

    A bit more on topic... sounds like this seller is just finding excuses not to sell. Walk away. No big deal.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I think with land sales, people have the cash .. you MUST sell.
    The county should be required to pay the taxed rate any time the house has been on the market for more than 90 days or refund the taxes for the past 10 years at the actual sales price.

    Then why not make it on all things that can be sold?

    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Not the case in any state I know of... perhaps you could link us to this law in your state. Typically, when a house is listed, the seller will sign a contract with a broker "to find a willing and able buyer". If such a person is found, the commision is due even if the seller refuses to sell.

    A bit more on topic... sounds like this seller is just finding excuses not to sell. Walk away. No big deal.
    He seems to have been expressing a belief of how things should be not stating how things are.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    Not the case in any state I know of... perhaps you could link us to this law in your state. Typically, when a house is listed, the seller will sign a contract with a broker "to find a willing and able buyer". If such a person is found, the commision is due even if the seller refuses to sell.

    A bit more on topic... sounds like this seller is just finding excuses not to sell. Walk away. No big deal.
    If an offer to purchase in full agreement with the terms is not accepted, then one can suit for specific performance.
    http://www.biggerpockets.com/article...ic-performance
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Elm Creek Smith's Avatar
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    "The Office of Fair Housing and Equal Opportunity (FHEO) administers and enforces federal laws and establishes policies that make sure all Americans have equal access to the housing of their choice."

    http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?...sing_equal_opp

    According to federal law, you can't discriminate against ANYONE in housing sales, sales, or rentals if they are "able" buyers. If someone qualifies for a loan and both parties can agree on a price, the sale must be accepted. I'd tell the realtor to tell the owner that I was going to sue the her for discrimination. If you can make that case that your religious beliefs require you to be armed, you might actually be able to sue!
    Last edited by Elm Creek Smith; 05-07-2014 at 01:31 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7om5hipp View Post
    My friend has been looking for a new house, he and his wife found one in town that they really liked and ha gone to look at the place. The seller was at the house when the Realtor gave them the first tour, and like always my friend was carrying his firearm. Everything seemed to have gone smoothly. A week later they called back to get a second look at the house and they were hit with the words "The seller is uncomfortable with you carrying a gun." And that the seller was no longer considering them as buyers. All because he carried a firearm, she has decided that they are not good enough to buy her house.
    Sounds like it's prior to any offer. Contracts require four things before they're enforceable: offer, acceptance, intent, and consideration. For property sales, they must also be in writing. Discrimination in the U.S. is protected by several acts, covering things like age, race, creed, sex, etc.

    Similarly, HUD only enforces along these lines, as well, as specifically stated on their website: "HUD investigates complaints of housing discrimination based on race, color, religion, national origin, sex, disability, or familial status."

    I'm afraid it doesn't encompass firearms. Until it does, the general rule stating, "We reserve the right to refuse service" will continue to apply.
    Last edited by since9; 05-09-2014 at 07:31 AM.
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Sounds like it's prior to any offer. Contracts require four things before they're enforceable: offer, acceptance, intent, and consideration. For property sales, they must also be in writing. Discrimination in the U.S. is protected by several acts, covering things like age, race, creed, sex, etc.

    Similarly, HUD only enforces along these lines, as well, as specifically stated on their website: "HUD investigates complaints of housing discrimination based on race, color, religion, national origin, sex, disability, or familial status."

    I'm afraid it doesn't encompass firearms. Until it does, the general rule stating, "We reserve the right to refuse service" will continue to apply.
    All correct.

    However, if the buyers wanted the house and submitted an offer with no contingencies and for full asking price, the seller would have no recourse but to accept it or risk having to pay the realtor's commission based on the fact that she had fulfilled her responsibility to find qualified, willing buyers. If the seller did refuse such an offer, the buyers could sue for specific performance.

    It all gets down to how badly the buyers wanted that house....
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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Actually, I'm rather surprised to the point of being shocked that more Real Estate agents don't carry firearms, and encourage carry by LACs. It's a fairly risky business for the (typically) female agent to show up and go into a house with an unknown person or persons.

    Who would guess that this agent would fail the 'intelligence' part of the RE exam, heh.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maverick9 View Post
    Actually, I'm rather surprised to the point of being shocked that more Real Estate agents don't carry firearms, and encourage carry by LACs. It's a fairly risky business for the (typically) female agent to show up and go into a house with an unknown person or persons.

    Who would guess that this agent would fail the 'intelligence' part of the RE exam, heh.
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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Irritating but that is freedom. They have the right to deny transferring their property to those they disagree with.
    unless youre a baker that didnt want to bake a cake for a gay wedding......

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by since9 View Post
    Sounds like it's prior to any offer. Contracts require four things before they're enforceable: offer, acceptance, intent, and consideration. For property sales, they must also be in writing. Discrimination in the U.S. is protected by several acts, covering things like age, race, creed, sex, etc.

    Similarly, HUD only enforces along these lines, as well, as specifically stated on their website: "HUD investigates complaints of housing discrimination based on race, color, religion, national origin, sex, disability, or familial status."

    I'm afraid it doesn't encompass firearms. Until it does, the general rule stating, "We reserve the right to refuse service" will continue to apply.
    A real estate contract also requires "consideration" - which might only be $1.00, love and other considerations.

    If an offer to buy is made meeting the listed minimum terms and not accepted by the sellers, one can sue for specific performance = force the sale.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A real estate contract also requires "consideration" - which might only be $1.00, love and other considerations.

    If an offer to buy is made meeting the listed minimum terms and not accepted by the sellers, one can sue for specific performance = force the sale.
    You are evil, absolutely correct, but evil, in a good way.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    You are evil, absolutely correct, but evil, in a good way.
    Real estate management/sales was a fulfilling career in one of my prior lives.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    A real estate contract also requires "consideration" - which might only be $1.00, love and other considerations.

    If an offer to buy is made meeting the listed minimum terms and not accepted by the sellers, one can sue for specific performance = force the sale.
    If the offer is not accepted then there is no contract between buyer and seller. The only contract that can be enforced in that case is the one between the seller and the agent. The agent can sue for his/her commision.

  22. #22
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by georg jetson View Post
    If the offer is not accepted then there is no contract between buyer and seller. The only contract that can be enforced in that case is the one between the seller and the agent. The agent can sue for his/her commision.
    Seller and agent have contract. Buyer offers to buy in full compliance with terms of listing. Sellers refuses to perform.

    Agent has loss - can sue if commission not paid.

    Buyer has loss - can sue if offer to buy is not accepted

    Means: Sue for specific performance. I have seen this done successfully.

    http://www.biggerpockets.com/article...ic-performance
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Logan 5's Avatar
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    Are you sure about that? I see this as a maze in the grey area of the law.

    While the home is for sale, doesn't the owner still have the right to say if firearms are permitted or not?
    If they still live there I think they have that choice. Kinda like smoking. They can say "no smoking" and be accepted as legal.
    I imagine that if they still live in the home they can say no firearms. However if they do not live there any longer I don't think they can say that. Likewise if they have the home for sale and feel uncomfortable with firearms, they can always go to the store while you're there.

    One argument I can nearly guarantee will come up though is if you feel THAT uncomfortable viewing a house for sale that you must have a firearm, don't go in. Personally, if my home is for sale and you come to look at it because you're considering buying it, I don't care if you're CCing or OCing (just no rifles or shotguns). Hell, Grapeshot if you came to my home OCing, it wouldn't bother me any. Just buy the damned place already, alright?
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Logan 5 View Post
    Are you sure about that? I see this as a maze in the grey area of the law.

    While the home is for sale, doesn't the owner still have the right to say if firearms are permitted or not?
    If they still live there I think they have that choice. Kinda like smoking. They can say "no smoking" and be accepted as legal.
    I imagine that if they still live in the home they can say no firearms. However if they do not live there any longer I don't think they can say that. Likewise if they have the home for sale and feel uncomfortable with firearms, they can always go to the store while you're there.

    One argument I can nearly guarantee will come up though is if you feel THAT uncomfortable viewing a house for sale that you must have a firearm, don't go in. Personally, if my home is for sale and you come to look at it because you're considering buying it, I don't care if you're CCing or OCing (just no rifles or shotguns). Hell, Grapeshot if you came to my home OCing, it wouldn't bother me any. Just buy the damned place already, alright?
    Yep, I'm sure of it in accordance with VA & NC laws/courts where I have been certified as an expert witness - different states, different laws & still subject to judge's decision.

    Situation is that an MLS listing (Board of Realtors) is a contract. Refusal to accept/endorse such an offer in accordance with those terms creates liability, both for the agent's commission for providing a ready, willing and able buyer + liability for purchaser's loss and expenses thereof. Practically speaking, it likely would be prohibitively expensive to file suit.

    If I neither wore shirt or shoes and wanted to see and/or buy your home, I best be allowed to do so unless you listed those as qualifiers on your contract with the agent.....safety considerations aside. If OTOH, I were doing something already illegal (i.e. wearing a mask) then you would probably be on safe ground.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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