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Thread: Is it legal to..

  1. #1
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    Is it legal to..

    I know this isn't directly related to open carry, but I'm curious.. Is it legal for a non-oregon resident to pay for a weapon for someone else? (Ex: a Gift) My old man is in CA and is going to be in town soon, and wants to gift me a handgun for work, what's the rules on that, is it legal? I'm in oregon.
    Last edited by tyr; 05-01-2014 at 12:25 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Federal law requires that the person who fills out the paperwork be the person that is actually going to be the owner. There is no time limit on ownership. Someone buying a gift is actually the owner during the time they buy it until they give it away. It is legal to buy a firearm with the intent to give it to someone who may legally possess it.

    Now, the issue is that many, if not most, gun shops are so paranoid about these laws that they will refuse sales to anyone they suspect is going to give the gun to someone else. So if you plan to do this, just keep your mouth shut about it while in the store.

    EDIT: I just remembered this is not an option for you because federal law also prohibits buying a handgun in another state.

    Other options include having him give you the money to cover it, and then you do the shopping and paperwork yourself. If you are under 21, as is often the case in these situations, this is not an option.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-01-2014 at 01:30 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyr View Post
    I know this isn't directly related to open carry, but I'm curious.. Is it legal for a non-oregon resident to pay for a weapon for someone else? (Ex: a Gift) My old man is in CA and is going to be in town soon, and wants to gift me a handgun for work, what's the rules on that, is it legal? I'm in oregon.
    Well, the courts have ruled that husband-wife relationship allows one to hand over $$ for a gun to a dealer for the other. (I know this because the ATF sent in a pair and played that game and arrested the dealer in my neighborhood ~ the court almost tossed his gavel at the ATF).

    I don't recall any such relationship between parent-offspring...so I would say that would strictly be seen as a straw purchase.

    Recommend your parent give you the cash to buy the gun and you hand over the cash to the dealer.

    If your father wants to give you a gun he already owns then he can "sell" it to your local ffl and he can transfer it to you. Cost ~ 25-50 bucks.

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    Regular Member Red Dawg's Avatar
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    This exact kind of thing is what really, truly bothers me about the federal law. How many of us got their first, second etc..guns as gifts from family? Most all of us old country boys did. And when a family member dies, younger members can't technically get the guns if they are from another state. Such hogwash...
    It's best to just know the laws, and use common sense when geting handguns with family members...Don't ask, don't tell...LOL...
    Person to person, no paperwork, (where legal, like in VA)..No one needs to know anyone's business.
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    Purchasing a Firearm as a Gift - ATF Form 4473

    Question 11a on ATF Form 4473 says:

    11. Answer questions 11.a. through 12 by checking “yes” or “no” in the boxes to the right of the questions.
    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------
    a. Are you the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm(s) listed on this form? Warning: You are not the actual buyer if you are acquiring the firearm(s) on behalf of another person. If you are not the actual buyer, the dealer cannot transfer the firearm(s) to you. (See Instructions for Question 11.a.) Exception: If you are picking up a repaired firearm(s) for another person, you are not
    required to answer 11.a. and may proceed to question 11.b.

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    The Instructions for Question 11a on ATF Form 4473 say:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    NOTICES, INSTRUCTIONS AND DEFINITIONS

    Question 11.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer: For purposes of this form, you are
    the actual transferee/buyer if you are purchasing the firearm for yourself or
    otherwise acquiring the firearm for yourself (e.g., redeeming the firearm from
    pawn/retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). You are also the
    actual transferee/buyer if you are legitimately purchasing the firearm as a gift
    for a third party
    . ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER EXAMPLES: Mr.
    Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith. Mr. Smith gives Mr.
    Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/
    BUYER of the firearm and must answer “NO” to question 11.a. The
    licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown
    goes to buy a firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a present,
    Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer
    “YES” to question 11.a. However, you may not transfer a firearm to any
    person you know or have reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18

    -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    It appears to me that IF you can legally purchase a firearm then you can legally purchase one as a gift. Please note that if the recipient of the gift lives in another state you may have to transfer the firearm to the recipient thru a FFL.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    One of the local gun shops said "You aren't buying the gun for another person. You are buying it for yourself to give as a gift".

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    i remember years and years ago my dad buying me my first gun, a ruger 10/22 SS. he filled out the paperwork and handed me the gun in the store. Times have a changed......



    Anyway, like others have said, your dad cannot buy a handgun in another state and technically he cannot buy a gun "for" you. It's best he gives you the $$ and you make the purchase or he can buy in CA and bring it to you if he decides he doesnt like it.
    Last edited by Kopis; 05-01-2014 at 10:02 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by tyr View Post
    I know this isn't directly related to open carry, but I'm curious.. Is it legal for a non-oregon resident to pay for a weapon for someone else? (Ex: a Gift) My old man is in CA and is going to be in town soon, and wants to gift me a handgun for work, what's the rules on that, is it legal? I'm in oregon.

    As far as I know federally it is. I purchased two guns for a son in law through Walmart for presents. Both times I was not in the same state as he was. His wife filled the paperwork out and picked up the guns. Some LGS will refuse to make a sale though if the person buying the gun is not the same person as the person filling out the paperwork. Most don't care though.
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Just remember that a resident of one state may not directly transfer a firearm to a resident of another state - even if both persons are physically present in the same state at the same time. Your dad would need to buy the gun, transfer it to a FFL who would then transfer it to you.

    A solution would be for your dad to make a cash gift of the cost of the gun and you then take the cash down to your local gun shop and buy the firearm. Just do not do the giving/receiving of cash right there in front of the FFL - unless you and your dad have a real strong desire to wear stainless steel bracelets.

    stay safe.
    Last edited by skidmark; 05-06-2014 at 08:14 PM. Reason: keeping even farther away from straw purchase issues
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    I agree with skid above ^^^

    The OP is likely buying the gun now ... maybe he'll post back.

  11. #11
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I agree with skid above ^^^

    The OP is likely buying the gun now ... maybe he'll post back.
    Quick! Somebody check to see how many pigs have crash-dived into elementary schools! davidmcbeth is agreeing with me?

    How could that be?



    stay safe.
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    Last fall

    Last fall I was in a gun store and a man and woman were there, boyfriend and girlfriend. The girlfriend was buying a gun and it went fine, did their checks and calls and all that. Almost done and the girlfriend lets it slip she was going to give it to the boyfriend. That was the end of that, sale was done, no more gun for the boyfriend.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Space stormy View Post
    Last fall I was in a gun store and a man and woman were there, boyfriend and girlfriend. The girlfriend was buying a gun and it went fine, did their checks and calls and all that. Almost done and the girlfriend lets it slip she was going to give it to the boyfriend. That was the end of that, sale was done, no more gun for the boyfriend.
    Though the last post was over a year before Stormy's response, I'm glad he did, as it brings to light the response by Red Ruger, which means I can buy a pistol for my brother and gift it to him (in CO, no transfer required between family members). I must have skimmed past that section too fast when buying my last pistol, as I was only buying it for myself.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Space stormy View Post
    Last fall I was in a gun store and a man and woman were there, boyfriend and girlfriend. The girlfriend was buying a gun and it went fine, did their checks and calls and all that. Almost done and the girlfriend lets it slip she was going to give it to the boyfriend. That was the end of that, sale was done, no more gun for the boyfriend.
    If it was her money being spent, it was legal. But like I said last year, gun shops have been intimidated into being very gunshy about it, and many will balk. It's rather sad that honest people have to be forced to act like criminals. Welcome to 21st century America.
    Last edited by MAC702; 06-06-2015 at 09:17 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    If it was her money being spent, it was legal. But like I said last year, gun shops have been intimidated into being very gunshy about it, and many will balk. It's rather sad that honest people have to be forced to act like criminals. Welcome to 21st century America.
    The dealer would be able to complete the transfer only if they knew the gun was going to the boyfriend as a gift and he was not prohibited from buying or possessing a handgun. ATF really cracks down on straw buyers and as it happens, eligible women frequently buy guns for ineligible men.

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    Quote Originally Posted by nonameisgood View Post
    The dealer would be able to complete the transfer only if they knew the gun was going to the boyfriend as a gift and he was not prohibited from buying or possessing a handgun. ATF really cracks down on straw buyers and as it happens, eligible women frequently buy guns for ineligible men.
    The dealer has no obligation to verify the boyfriend's status. Indeed, the boyfriend need not be in the room, even if they knew it was a gift for him. The gift buyer is the purchaser, period. In the situation described, there was no reason to suspect it was not a gift, except for the automatic assumption that the government has forced gun shops to assume: gun buyers are liars.

    But this gift is specifically described as NOT a straw purchase by the ATF.

    If a woman knowingly gives a firearm to a prohibited boyfriend, she is breaking the law, at that time.
    Last edited by MAC702; 06-06-2015 at 10:30 PM.
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    If it happens in the store, the seller could be held to account. But there may have been something said that triggered the dealer's reaction, we don't know


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    Interesting

    From the meat and potatoes of the conversation I have had with the employees of the gun shop when I was purchasing my wife a pistol it seemed to be that they spoke that I could only purchase a pistol for my wife as a gift. It is possible that I do not recall all of the conversation but for some reason I remember them saying to purchase one as a gift for someone else was not possible. Of course I may definitely be wrong. Oh, and the year response, I just joined the sight a few days ago.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by tyr View Post
    I know this isn't directly related to open carry, but I'm curious.. Is it legal for a non-oregon resident to pay for a weapon for someone else? (Ex: a Gift) My old man is in CA and is going to be in town soon, and wants to gift me a handgun for work, what's the rules on that, is it legal? I'm in oregon.
    I worked at a gun shop and ended up doing all the FFL paperwork so they sent me to a couple seminars with the BATF.

    As we were in a college town this was one question I specifically asked- parent from NY or CA offspring attending school in town; straight from the jacka..... er... agents mouth "It doesn't matter who pays for it, we prefer the ultimate owner fills out the 4473 and it doesn't matter where the payer lives as long as the ultimate owner is legal to own". Now the state may have some restrictions but the feddies do not.

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