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Thread: !!!Massive gun confiscation bill passes MN House!!! Alert!!

  1. #1
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    !!!Massive gun confiscation bill passes MN House!!! Alert!!

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ective-orders/


    Anyone at anytime for any reason can get a restraining order against you no matter what the media and law says. Beware. And if you want to see government efficiency, you watch how quickly the "heroes" will SWAT team you once the order has been given.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...ective-orders/


    Anyone at anytime for any reason can get a restraining order against you no matter what the media and law says. Beware. And if you want to see government efficiency, you watch how quickly the "heroes" will SWAT team you once the order has been given.
    Any cites to back up any of these claims?

    Also, title is very misleading.

    Finally, many states already have legislation like this and the "heroes" don't swat peoples houses all that often based solely on this.

    You sound like an anti crying there will be blood in the streets when pro gun bills get passed. Truth is there will be no blood in the streets based on their claims, nor yours.

    The sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Any cites to back up any of these claims?

    Also, title is very misleading.

    Finally, many states already have legislation like this and the "heroes" don't swat peoples houses all that often based solely on this.

    You sound like an anti crying there will be blood in the streets when pro gun bills get passed. Truth is there will be no blood in the streets based on their claims, nor yours.

    The sky is falling the sky is falling!!!!

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    Cop, are you this ignorant or being facetious?
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  4. #4
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Cop, are you this ignorant or being facetious?
    Is that your cite to back up your claims?

    Cmon you can do better

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Is that your cite to back up your claims?

    Cmon you can do better

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    Cop, I've read the bill and the article, have you? How is it you are supposedly in law enforcement and don't know easy it is for a woman to get a restraining order? I knew about this bill months ago from friends who live there, the bill was written and delivered by Michael Bloomberg's anti gun group. The bill has since been amended but is still a giant ****. People will have their guns taken away for no reason because of this legislation.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  6. #6
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    Cop, I've read the bill and the article, have you? How is it you are supposedly in law enforcement and don't know easy it is for a woman to get a restraining order? I knew about this bill months ago from friends who live there, the bill was written and delivered by Michael Bloomberg's anti gun group. The bill has since been amended but is still a giant ****. People will have their guns taken away for no reason because of this legislation.
    Still no cites.

    I'm aware of how easy it is to get a restraining order. Also aware of how often they are served. Also aware of the fact you do get a day in court to contest any allegations made by said female/male.

    Do you have any cites that states that have this bill or some version have any sort of "gun confiscation aahhhhhhhhhhhh" going on?

    I'm aware my state has it, but yet not many guns are confiscated as a result.

    I'm interested to see your cites though. I'll patiently wait.

    The sky is falling.....

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    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
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    Did you actually read the bill?

    Please do.

    Mr. Farrago got many facts wrong in his article. We're working with him to correct it.

    In the mean time, please specifically cite the infringements present in the bill, because I worked on it every step of the way to remove every attempt from the Mayors to obstruct due process.

    Thanks.
    Last edited by robdoar; 05-02-2014 at 12:33 AM.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    This is somewhat embarrassing, isn’t it?

    It seems we can’t find what you’re looking for. Perhaps searching can help.
    What legislation?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  9. #9
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    Did you actually read the bill?

    Please do.

    Mr. Farrago got many facts wrong in his article. We're working with him to correct it.

    In the mean time, please specifically cite the infringements present in the bill, because I worked on it every step of the way to remove every attempt from the Mayors to obstruct due process.

    Thanks.
    The link to the recent bill is broken, or I can't access it for some reason. What changes were made?
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  10. #10
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
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    HF3238 MN
    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/bil...8&ssn=0&y=2013

    This bill doesn't affect Temporary Restraining Orders (TROs) nor ex parte (temporary) Orders For Protection.
    Here's what already happens now, under current state and federal law:
    1. A complainant (Carol) alleges domestic abuse by a boyfriend (Bob).
    2. A judge grants Carol an ex parte (legalese for "one party") order for protection. It basically says that Bob can't abuse or have contact with Carol. It doesn't include anything about guns.
    3. Bob gets served NOTICE of this order.
    4. Bob has an option to request a HEARING to review the order. He brings his lawyer, Carol brings hers.
    5. If a judge finds, in that hearing, with legal representation and argument from both sides (DUE PROCESS), that Bob significant threat of physical harm to Carol, the judge may make the order final for a period of time (commonly three years).
    6. If that order includes findings of significant seriousness of the threat, the Wellstone Amendment (federal law) makes Bob prohibited from possessing firearms.
    7. Bob is responsible for getting any guns out of his possession, as he has become a prohibited person for the duration of the order. Typically, he and his lawyer have planned for this eventuality, and already had the guns removed. If not, there is an unwritten grace period of three days before anyone goes after Bob for possession.
    If this bill becomes law, THINGS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME, EXCEPT FOR #7:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    NEW #7. Within three days, Bob has to move his guns to a law enforcement agency, an FFL, or a third party (friend, relative, etc.). Within two days after that, the police, FFL or third party has to notify the court in writing that the move has been made.[/B][/B]
    • The notification is sealed by the court
    • Bob retains full title to his property
    • Bob can, if he chooses, direct the third party to sell the guns on his behalf
    Last edited by robdoar; 05-02-2014 at 01:01 PM.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    HF3238 MN
    https://www.revisor.mn.gov/bills/bil...8&ssn=0&y=2013

    This bill doesn't affect Temporary Restraining Orders (TROs) nor ex parte (temporary) Orders For Protection.
    Here's what already happens now, under current state and federal law:
    1. A complainant (Carol) alleges domestic abuse by a boyfriend (Bob).
    2. A judge grants Carol an ex parte (legalese for "one party") order for protection. It basically says that Bob can't abuse or have contact with Carol. It doesn't include anything about guns.
    3. Bob gets served NOTICE of this order.
    4. Bob has an option to request a HEARING to review the order. He brings his lawyer, Carol brings hers.
    5. If a judge finds, in that hearing, with legal representation and argument from both sides (DUE PROCESS), that Bob significant threat of physical harm to Carol, the judge may make the order final for a period of time (commonly three years).
    6. If that order includes findings of significant seriousness of the threat, the Wellstone Amendment (federal law) makes Bob prohibited from possessing firearms.
    7. Bob is responsible for getting any guns out of his possession, as he has become a prohibited person for the duration of the order. Typically, he and his lawyer have planned for this eventuality, and already had the guns removed. If not, there is an unwritten grace period of three days before anyone goes after Bob for possession.
    If this bill becomes law, THINGS ARE EXACTLY THE SAME, EXCEPT FOR #7:
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    NEW #7. Within three days, Bob has to move his guns to a law enforcement agency, an FFL, or a third party (friend, relative, etc.). Within two days after that, the police, FFL or third party has to notify the court in writing that the move has been made.[/B][/B]
    • The notification is sealed by the court
    • Bob retains full title to his property
    • Bob can, if he chooses, direct the third party to sell the guns on his behalf
    Thank you for the citation and explanation. If you had a part in this then good work.

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  12. #12
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Thank you for the citation and explanation. If you had a part in this then good work.

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    Appreciate it.

    We were faced with a seemingly impossible task of preventing the Mayors Against Illegal Guns from cramming infringements thorough the largely anti gun Democrat stronghold at the Capitol, controlling both chambers of the legislature, and the Governors seat. We were successful in removing every conceivable infringement and limited the bill to a minor procedural change to what is already current law.

    If you could have seen what was in the first draft, you'd all be up in arms.

    But alas, that is the nature of lobbying. 90% of what you do is working to kill bad things before they even see the light of day. It's largely thankless, but incredibly necessary work to preserve and restore our rights.
    Last edited by robdoar; 05-02-2014 at 02:58 PM.
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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    Appreciate it.

    We were faced with a seemingly impossible task of preventing the Mayors Against Illegal Guns from cramming infringements thorough the largely anti gun Democrat stronghold at the Capitol, controlling both chambers of the legislature, and the Governors seat. We were successful in removing every conceivable infringement and limited the bill to a minor procedural change to what is already current law.

    If you could have seen what was in the first draft, you'd all be up in arms.

    But alas, that is the nature of lobbying. 90% of what you do is working to kill bad things before they even see the light of day. It's largely thankless, but incredibly necessary work to preserve and restore our rights.
    Thank you for your service. The original intent of the bill was so bad I didn't think anything of it at the time because I figured it wouldn't go anywhere. Bloomberg is injecting millions into his disarmament agenda nationwide
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  14. #14
    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    TTAG has updated information on their cite with analysis of the final version

    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...s/#more-314977
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Well glad to see the sky won't fall down for at least one more day.

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    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Quote Originally Posted by robdoar View Post
    Appreciate it.

    We were faced with a seemingly impossible task of preventing the Mayors Against Illegal Guns from cramming infringements thorough the largely anti gun Democrat stronghold at the Capitol, controlling both chambers of the legislature, and the Governors seat. We were successful in removing every conceivable infringement and limited the bill to a minor procedural change to what is already current law.

    If you could have seen what was in the first draft, you'd all be up in arms.

    But alas, that is the nature of lobbying. 90% of what you do is working to kill bad things before they even see the light of day. It's largely thankless, but incredibly necessary work to preserve and restore our rights.
    Do you have a link to the first draft by any chance? If there is no link can you describe what was in the first draft?

  17. #17
    Regular Member robdoar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by AhCrap View Post
    Do you have a link to the first draft by any chance? If there is no link can you describe what was in the first draft?
    No link, this was before the bill was introduced.

    Initially it applied to ex-parte orders (only an accusation needed), forced LEO / FFL (no third party) storage for fees that could quickly exceed value of gun, no judge discretion, and paperwork traps to snag people as non compliant just to name a few.
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