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Thread: Constitutional Carry in a car

  1. #1
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    Constitutional Carry in a car

    Well, the open carry bill didn't pass this year. But, on the bright side, the governor just signed the bill to allow people to carry guns (both handguns and long guns, loaded or unloaded) in their cars without a permit starting July 1. Even better, as is often talked about on here, this one is an exception to the charge rather than a defense.

    So, at least we gained something out of this session of the General Assembly.

    Here's a link to the bill. Click on the amendments and read the Senate amendment to see the final version of the bill.

    http://wapp.capitol.tn.gov/apps/Bill...=HB1480&ga=108
    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Should not affect TN citizens who carry regularly due to the pistol permit thing. Passer throughs, such as my self, will benefit the most.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Should not affect TN citizens who carry regularly due to the pistol permit thing. Passer throughs, such as my self, will benefit the most.
    Even for permit holders, it removes the restriction for having one in the chamber in long guns. Can now have loaded single/double barrel shotguns for example too, where couldn't before.

    I was popped for gun in vehicle back in '94. Charges later dropped, but I never got gun back, so has bit of special significance to me. This is actually the biggest step toward any type of constitutional carry in TN since carry first became a crime in the first place.

    - OS

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    Given this change, this map needs to be updated once July 1 rolls around.

    http://my.opencarry.org/?page_id=135
    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    Given this change, this map needs to be updated once July 1 rolls around.

    http://my.opencarry.org/?page_id=135
    Some of the maps are already out of date.

    - OS

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    So for the next ten days, what should an non permit style OC'er do when passing through Tennessee to other Open Carry friendly states?

    My travel route has the option of passing through what I perceive based on maps as more mountainous roads of KY/VA and maintaining my OC, or passing through an easier to drive section or two of Tennessee briefly, and as I understand it, I would have to disrobe erm, disarm, which is undesirable.

    What passes in TN for not carrying (while in a vehicle) ?

    Does the handgun have to be out of reach, or must it be locked in a safe?

    I'd potentially be in TN for about an hour and a half along US-81 and Lee HWY TN-1/US-11W, Bloomingdale RD and Wadlow Gap Rd/93 N.

    and then again for about mebbe 15 minutes along US-58/Wilderness Rd and US-25E

    Advice?

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    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanNabis View Post
    So for the next ten days, what should an non permit style OC'er do when passing through Tennessee to other Open Carry friendly states?

    My travel route has the option of passing through what I perceive based on maps as more mountainous roads of KY/VA and maintaining my OC, or passing through an easier to drive section or two of Tennessee briefly, and as I understand it, I would have to disrobe erm, disarm, which is undesirable.

    What passes in TN for not carrying (while in a vehicle) ?

    Does the handgun have to be out of reach, or must it be locked in a safe?

    I'd potentially be in TN for about an hour and a half along US-81 and Lee HWY TN-1/US-11W, Bloomingdale RD and Wadlow Gap Rd/93 N.

    and then again for about mebbe 15 minutes along US-58/Wilderness Rd and US-25E

    Advice?
    On July 1, 2014 if you can legally own a firearm you can carry it in your vehicle without a permit. Prior to the date if you do not have a permit the firearm must be unloaded. TN Law defines unloaded as " the rifle, shotgun or handgun does not have ammunition in the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine, and no clip or magazine is in the immediate vicinity of the weapon." (T.C.A. 39-17-1301(18))
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallguy View Post
    On July 1, 2014 if you can legally own a firearm you can carry it in your vehicle without a permit. Prior to the date if you do not have a permit the firearm must be unloaded. TN Law defines unloaded as " the rifle, shotgun or handgun does not have ammunition in the chamber, cylinder, clip or magazine, and no clip or magazine is in the immediate vicinity of the weapon." (T.C.A. 39-17-1301(18))
    Well, that's in "definitions" part of the code, but pretty safe to say that the actual procedure followed is simpler and in 39-17-1307, as have seen more than one LEO say they weren't even taught that definition as relevant. Have also heard a lawyer opine that the definition wording was botched, and should by intent read "no loaded clip or magazine is in immediate vicinity of the weapon".

    Whatever, but pretty clear that nobody gets arrested for having unloaded mags with the firearm. So I'd opine that following 1307 is safe where you may have:

    "...an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;"

    And btw, the new "vehicle carry" statute changes a couple of things that were limitations for permit holders also:

    - previously, could not have a round in chamber in a rifle or shotgun
    - technically, if indeed TN law enforcement is even aware of it, could not even have my "firearm" loaded at all, since it is not a "shotgun", "rifle", or "handgun" as per federal classification (now any "firearm" is allowed in the revision):



    - OS

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    sweet AR pistol. I love that sig brace with the extended buffer tube. Not that i have one just like it or anything... My friend just got the SB15 brace off ebay for $115 and a 3.5" extended buffer tube from amazon. $155 all in for an arm brace/extended buffer isnt bad. Hey, im not sure a vertical fore grip is legal though. the ATF has wrote opinion letters stating the magpul AFG is legal but i believe the vertical fore grip does not comply with NFA laws.


    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by Kopis; 06-23-2014 at 09:24 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member Fallguy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oh Shoot View Post
    Well, that's in "definitions" part of the code, but pretty safe to say that the actual procedure followed is simpler and in 39-17-1307, as have seen more than one LEO say they weren't even taught that definition as relevant. Have also heard a lawyer opine that the definition wording was botched, and should by intent read "no loaded clip or magazine is in immediate vicinity of the weapon".

    Whatever, but pretty clear that nobody gets arrested for having unloaded mags with the firearm. So I'd opine that following 1307 is safe where you may have:

    "...an unloaded rifle, shotgun or handgun not concealed on or about the person and the ammunition for the weapon was not in the immediate vicinity of the person or weapon;"

    And btw, the new "vehicle carry" statute changes a couple of things that were limitations for permit holders also:

    - previously, could not have a round in chamber in a rifle or shotgun
    - technically, if indeed TN law enforcement is even aware of it, could not even have my "firearm" loaded at all, since it is not a "shotgun", "rifle", or "handgun" as per federal classification (now any "firearm" is allowed in the revision):



    - OS
    Good clarification
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants." -- Thomas Jefferson

    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

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    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    I've read all the "legal" text about this law, but it still seems vague, like they want to try to trap people.

    No where in the law does it say you can actually have the firearms loaded... it does remove the sections about long gun carry, and just says "firearms"

    If its as you describe... anyone can carry whatever they want in their car as long as its legal for them to have... and carry it loaded if they want... then thats great, but why don't they say that in the law instead of keeping everything so vague and open to interpretation?

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    Quote Originally Posted by cjohnson44546 View Post
    I've read all the "legal" text about this law, but it still seems vague, like they want to try to trap people.

    No where in the law does it say you can actually have the firearms loaded... it does remove the sections about long gun carry, and just says "firearms"

    If its as you describe... anyone can carry whatever they want in their car as long as its legal for them to have... and carry it loaded if they want... then thats great, but why don't they say that in the law instead of keeping everything so vague and open to interpretation?
    There really isn't any confusion once you read the law as a whole and understand how each subsection interacts with each other.

    T.C.A. 39-17-1307 subsection (a) currently makes it an offense to carry firearms and some other weapons "with the intent to go armed." Previously, there were two exceptions/defenses to subsection (a) that allowed a person to carry a "loaded" firearm in a motor vehicle. One was to have a carry permit and be carrying a handgun. The other way was listed in the old subsection (e), which allowed a permit holder to have a long gun in a motor vehicle with ammunition in the clip/magazine/cylinder but not one in the chamber. Otherwise, the old subsection (e) generally required the firearm to be unloaded.

    SB 1774 (the constitutional car carry law) strikes the current subsection (e) and replaces it with a re-written one. The new subsection (e), which takes effect in about an hour and a half for those on the east side of the state, simply says that subsection (a) does not apply to a firearm possessed in a vehicle, as long as two conditions are met: (1) the person may lawfully possess firearms, and (2) the person is in lawful possession of the motor vehicle (note that this provision does not apply if the vehicle is owned by a governmental or private entity with a written "no-firearms" policy and the entity provided the vehicle to the employee as part of their duties). Since the new subsection (e) is silent on any requirements that the firearm be unloaded (which the old subsection (e) had), it is presumed that loaded carry is included.

    Source: Senate Bill 1774, Public Chapter 870: http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/108/pub/pc0870.pdf

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. None of the following information is, or should be construed as, legal advice. I accept no legal liability for any actions that any person may or may not take based on this information. For legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction.
    "Eternal vigilance is the price of liberty."
    "All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing."
    "They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." Ben Franklin

  13. #13
    Regular Member cjohnson44546's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nascar24Glock View Post
    There really isn't any confusion once you read the law as a whole and understand how each subsection interacts with each other.

    T.C.A. 39-17-1307 subsection (a) currently makes it an offense to carry firearms and some other weapons "with the intent to go armed." Previously, there were two exceptions/defenses to subsection (a) that allowed a person to carry a "loaded" firearm in a motor vehicle. One was to have a carry permit and be carrying a handgun. The other way was listed in the old subsection (e), which allowed a permit holder to have a long gun in a motor vehicle with ammunition in the clip/magazine/cylinder but not one in the chamber. Otherwise, the old subsection (e) generally required the firearm to be unloaded.

    SB 1774 (the constitutional car carry law) strikes the current subsection (e) and replaces it with a re-written one. The new subsection (e), which takes effect in about an hour and a half for those on the east side of the state, simply says that subsection (a) does not apply to a firearm possessed in a vehicle, as long as two conditions are met: (1) the person may lawfully possess firearms, and (2) the person is in lawful possession of the motor vehicle (note that this provision does not apply if the vehicle is owned by a governmental or private entity with a written "no-firearms" policy and the entity provided the vehicle to the employee as part of their duties). Since the new subsection (e) is silent on any requirements that the firearm be unloaded (which the old subsection (e) had), it is presumed that loaded carry is included.

    Source: Senate Bill 1774, Public Chapter 870: http://state.tn.us/sos/acts/108/pub/pc0870.pdf

    Disclaimer: I am not an attorney. None of the following information is, or should be construed as, legal advice. I accept no legal liability for any actions that any person may or may not take based on this information. For legal advice, consult an attorney licensed to practice law in your jurisdiction.
    Thanks for the explanation. I did read all that. I just hate things like assume or "it is presumed" ... I think it should have specifically stated things about loaded and unloaded. I understand it the same way you do, but can see how lawyers and prosecutors could argue differently.

    Overall I think this is great if it works out as it sounds... next we need to get rid of "no gun" signs having rule of law... whats next signs that say "no loose clothing" gets you arrested too?
    Last edited by cjohnson44546; 07-01-2014 at 09:20 AM.

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