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Thread: USCCA comments on "Open Carry Debate"

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    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    USCCA comments on "Open Carry Debate"

    Check out the video here: Into the Fray, Episode 8: The Open Carry Debate: http://youtu.be/WXOi0ZymReg

    Would you prefer your would-be attacker know or not know you are armed?

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    Check out the video here: Into the Fray, Episode 8: The Open Carry Debate: http://youtu.be/WXOi0ZymReg

    Would you prefer your would-be attacker know or not know you are armed?

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    The video description:
    If you choose to practice open carry remember that you give up your tactical advantage just to make a political statement. It may be that we as gun owners need to make such a political statement, but remember, your gun is, first and foremost, a piece of emergency life-saving equipment. Use it as such. (Bolded for emphasis)

    Typical rhetoric at 1:00 mark:
    "I don't practice Open Carry...But I don't practice Open Carry for one reason: It takes away the tactical advantage of a concealed firearm. I do not want to give a bad guy the opportunity to see my gun and try to determine how he's going to ambush me and take my gun away."

    But the MOST telling statement happens at the 1:32 mark:
    "A concealed handgun gives your attacker the ultimate opportunity to make a fatal error in the victim selection process."

    I detect "White Knight" syndrome. It seems he WANTS the opportunity to use his sidearm. I'd rather not have to so much as DRAW my sidearm from its visible holster.

    Then he goes on about how OC causes some people "consternation", and FINALLY begins to make logical arguments when he says that maybe more people should OC so that it becomes a non-event, as well as the need to retrain dispatchers.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

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    Where's that guy who can draw faster from concealed than anyone openly carrying?

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    Where's that guy who can draw faster from concealed than anyone openly carrying?
    G21sfpistol? He's out there using his concealed tactical advantage to fight crime and preventing gun-grabs from happening to OCers.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    This guy has no evidence to support his theory, anecdotal or otherwise.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I'd rather be left alone than need a tactical advantage because I wasn't left alone.

    I've been openly carrying for 22 years. I never knew I did it for political reasons until that asshat told me so.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-06-2014 at 01:14 AM.
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    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
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    I'm not in a position to take the chance of a sudden attack which puts me at serious risk of injury or worse. I cannot run away from a bad situation, and I can no longer fight off a sudden attack like I may have been able to do 20 years ago. I have had two knee surgeries, one a total replacement and the other (just 8 1/2 weeks ago) a partial replacement) and a decompression and fusion surgery in my lower back. All three of these surgeries have been within the past year and a half. A sudden and violent attack is likely to knock me off my feet pretty easily and may cause more injury to those "repaired" areas. If such should occur, the chance of getting to my concealed sidearm is going to be reduced considerably I would think.

    So I would rather a potential attacker see my visible arm and my situation awareness, and then just leave me alone. How hard is that to understand by people who can't seem to get the idea of concealed carry being a superior tactical advantage out of their heads?

    Concealed carry is a good and viable mode of carrying a sidearm but it is not the end all method.... and neither is open carry. BOTH are tools at the carrier's disposal and should be treated as such, not to make some political statement and not to get in the face of the general population. BOTH of these carry methods are nothing more than personal decisions to be taken by the carrier at such time and place he deems it to be in his best interests.

    And here's another thing. Attacks generally come in two forms: an approach from some menacing individual(s) who may have robbery or some other felony on their mind and you have been identified as their victim, or sudden and out of nowhere with an aim to disable you as quickly as possible in order for an attacker(s) to get what they want. In the approach method you stand a better chance of getting to a concealed gun but what if by the time you identify those approaching you as a serious threat, one or more of them already has a weapon in hand?

    The sudden attack is going to be difficult to defend against if you are taken by complete surprise so whether your gun is concealed or not is not going to make a lot of difference, however if it is openly carried you MAY have a better chance to get to it.

    It's kind of like a sign in your yard that warns that a vicious dog is inside and/or that the property is protected by cameras and alarms and is well lit versus a neighbor's home that has nothing of the sort and is totally dark at night. Which one is more apt to be the target of a burglar?

    When people conceal their sidearm properly they look just like any other person which is to say, they look just like any other potential victim. The concealed carrier must bank on his ability to get his gun out nearly as quickly as an open carrier if an attack is imminent. In other words, their concealed handgun is only going to be "working" if an attack is developing or in progress like right now. An openly carrier handgun is working 100% of the time because of its visibility.

    I conceal when I deem it to be in my better interests at a given time and/or place and that is my decision to take. And I OC for the same reasons. That is how it should be and that is our right as Virginians, though concealing our sidearm is at present not a right but a privilege.
    Last edited by SouthernBoy; 05-12-2014 at 08:46 AM.
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

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    Campaign Veteran since9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    I'd rather be left alone than need a tactical advantage because I wasn't left alone.
    That's the best response I've heard yet to the CC argument that they prefer a "tactical advantage." Open carry comes with a lot of advantages, including deterrence. If you can convince a potential enemy not to engage in the first place, you've won the battle.

    That's a strategic advantage, one worth far more than any tactical advantage.
    The First protects the Second, and the Second protects the First. Together, they protect the rest of our Bill of Rights and our United States Constitution, and help We the People protect ourselves in the spirit of our Declaration of Independence.

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    Regular Member Believer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    Check out the video here: Into the Fray, Episode 8: The Open Carry Debate: http://youtu.be/WXOi0ZymReg

    Would you prefer your would-be attacker know or not know you are armed?

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    I'll be honest I have never OC. I CC when ever I can. Why, I'm not sure. Its not for a advantage, as it will take a considerable amount of time to pull from my White Hat IWB... I'm guessing it's because I'll receive less hassle from the public and police if they simply don't know I'm armed. Is this the right or smart choice, I'm beginning to have my doubts the more I read on the forums here. I have a nice Serpa to carry my Sig in that I use when I'm walking the dogs in the woods. I have to admit I'm a little nervous to try it around town, but I believe the advantage would be in favor to the one who is clearly armed. Because who would want to screw with someone who obviously has a weapon on them....

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Why would we give the speaker in the video any credence? After all, his business is in promoting the US CONCEALED CARRY Association! He has a vested financial interest in convincing people that Concealed carry is the only proper way to be armed. The more successful he is, the more of his products and magazines he gets to sell.

    Always follow the money...
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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    I'll be honest I have never OC. I CC when ever I can. Why, I'm not sure. Its not for a advantage, as it will take a considerable amount of time to pull from my White Hat IWB... I'm guessing it's because I'll receive less hassle from the public and police if they simply don't know I'm armed. Is this the right or smart choice, I'm beginning to have my doubts the more I read on the forums here. I have a nice Serpa to carry my Sig in that I use when I'm walking the dogs in the woods. I have to admit I'm a little nervous to try it around town, but I believe the advantage would be in favor to the one who is clearly armed. Because who would want to screw with someone who obviously has a weapon on them....
    I bet you will find your fear is based on not participating in it and will wash away after you practice your rights openly.

    The off chance you do get a little hassle means you are doing something right and taking a stand for rights, and are Moving Out and Drawing Fire. Helping our liberties.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member Believer's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I bet you will find your fear is based on not participating in it and will wash away after you practice your rights openly.

    The off chance you do get a little hassle means you are doing something right and taking a stand for rights, and are Moving Out and Drawing Fire. Helping our liberties.
    Thank you. You are most likely correct about the fear aspect. I was nervous when I first started CCing till I got used to it and I'm sure the same will apply to OCing. looking forward to trying it this weekend............

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    Regular Member hhofent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post


    "I don't practice Open Carry...But I don't practice Open Carry for one reason: It takes away the tactical advantage of a concealed firearm. I do not want to give a bad guy the opportunity to see my gun and try to determine how he's going to ambush me and take my gun away."
    My tactical advantage lies with my BUG.



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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Believer View Post
    Thank you. You are most likely correct about the fear aspect. I was nervous when I first started CCing till I got used to it and I'm sure the same will apply to OCing. looking forward to trying it this weekend............
    +1 If it makes it more comfortable OC at places that you know to be firearm friendly.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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