Results 1 to 24 of 24

Thread: School field trip. Carry or no carry?

  1. #1
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Owingsville,KY
    Posts
    1,039

    School field trip. Carry or no carry?

    I am planning on going with my son on a class field trip tomorrow to the Newport aquarium as a chaperone. I will be driving my own vehicle but wondered if I CC if I would be violating 527.070? The law reads "in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field, or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution." The word "used" has me concerned because they will be using the aquarium as a school function.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  2. #2
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    They don't control the site, right? Then its not part of the school. I see no issue.

    But its your butt on the line, not mine.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2013
    Location
    United States
    Posts
    4,216
    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    I am planning on going with my son on a class field trip tomorrow to the Newport aquarium as a chaperone. I will be driving my own vehicle but wondered if I CC if I would be violating 527.070? The law reads "in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field, or any other property owned, used, or operated by any board of education, school, board of trustees, regents, or directors for the administration of any public or private educational institution." The word "used" has me concerned because they will be using the aquarium as a school function.
    It says "for the administration of any public or private educational institution".... so doesn't apply.



    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    It says "for the administration of any public or private educational institution".... so doesn't apply.
    This.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  5. #5
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Owingsville,KY
    Posts
    1,039
    It seems pretty clear to me, but with the recent railroading to LAC"s in the courts,who knows?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  6. #6
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Nothern KY
    Posts
    201
    You wouldn't leave a building in any other situation just because a school group came in would you? I get how being a chaperone would cause you to second guess carrying though.

  7. #7
    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    101
    I would say not illegal. I sure wouldn't let anyone see it though. It would definitely cause a stir if anyone with the school found out. There would be someone trying to pass a rule or even legislation to stop it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

  8. #8
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Las Vegas
    Posts
    460
    I am thinking legal as well.

    Disclaimer:
    The words "I researched it on the internet" or more specifically "I read it on OCDO" is not a workable defense.

  9. #9
    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    101
    I definitely know it's going on already but I bet if you ask most anyone if a chaperone on a school field trip is allowed to carry a gun they would say no. I think it's better for most people to not even have the opportunity to think about an issue like this and if his gun were noticed it very well could be brought to the publics attention. A news story such as this is much more likely to sway moderate thinking people to the left than bringing them to our side. I'm just suggesting that it would be better that no one see him carrying while on a field trip with children. I think most would agree with that.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

  10. #10
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by mellio View Post
    I'm just suggesting that it would be better that no one see him carrying while on a field trip with children. I think most would agree with that.
    Nope.

  11. #11
    Banned
    Join Date
    Jan 2012
    Location
    earth's crust
    Posts
    17,838
    What if a kid falls into the shark tank? I just watched the movie Jaws ... so its fresh in my mind.

    (carry a air cylinder too)

  12. #12
    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    101
    So would you suggest he open carry with the school field trip?

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

  13. #13
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by mellio View Post
    So would you suggest he open carry with the school field trip?
    I generally don't bother making suggestions regarding what people do with their freedoms. That's the whole point: they're his freedoms, not mine.

    I certainly don't think he should not carry if that's what his heart and mind tell him to do. I fail to see what makes children any different than anybody else when it comes to the presence of firearms.
    Last edited by marshaul; 05-09-2014 at 08:40 AM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,166
    Quote Originally Posted by mellio View Post
    [ ... ] I think it's better for most people to not even have the opportunity to think about an issue like this and if his gun were noticed it very well could be brought to the publics attention.
    Holey Shiite, Batman, I'll bet Mellio is a government school teacher!

    James Woolsey said something about not being able to fix what we can't speak, Mellio doesn't even want us to think of it!
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  15. #15
    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    101
    Alright everybody pile on. Lol. I think it's funny how most Internet forum "discussions" go. Maybe I'm not very good at translating my thoughts into forum post. He should absolutely do what he feels is right. When i say most people should not have the opportunity to think about the issue. I'm saying it would be better to leave the law as it is currently written which in my opinion says that the OP does have the right to carry while chaperoneing the trip. If it were discovered by the public that their is no law that says he can't do that I believe there may be quite a few people that would want to change that. Remember the only reason something is legal is because a law hasn't been passed to make it illegal. I'm saying he should do as he sees fit just don't promote it to the point it brings unwanted attention to a law that at the moment is on our side. I also think it would be extremely naieve, given the current political climate with school children and guns, to think that if this issue were brought to the eye of the news outlets that we (pro 2A people, yes I am one) would win the ensuing debate. I doubt this will clear anything up but I tried.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

  16. #16
    Regular Member MontanaResident's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Montana
    Posts
    163
    So? No follow up from Self Preservation? Is he trying to make bail, while protecting his backside?

  17. #17
    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2011
    Location
    Nevada
    Posts
    6,520
    Fear of carrying around children is why children think it's abnormal to carry. Then they grow up. Then we have what we have.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

  18. #18
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2007
    Location
    Fairfax County, Virginia
    Posts
    11,487
    Quote Originally Posted by mellio View Post
    Alright everybody pile on. Lol. I think it's funny how most Internet forum "discussions" go. Maybe I'm not very good at translating my thoughts into forum post. He should absolutely do what he feels is right. When i say most people should not have the opportunity to think about the issue. I'm saying it would be better to leave the law as it is currently written which in my opinion says that the OP does have the right to carry while chaperoneing the trip. If it were discovered by the public that their is no law that says he can't do that I believe there may be quite a few people that would want to change that. Remember the only reason something is legal is because a law hasn't been passed to make it illegal. I'm saying he should do as he sees fit just don't promote it to the point it brings unwanted attention to a law that at the moment is on our side. I also think it would be extremely naieve, given the current political climate with school children and guns, to think that if this issue were brought to the eye of the news outlets that we (pro 2A people, yes I am one) would win the ensuing debate. I doubt this will clear anything up but I tried.
    I do see where you're coming from.

    Really, though, this argument isn't any different from the general "OCing will get OCing banned" argument. After all, there will be children at the aquarium regardless of whether it's during a field trip. In fact, there can be expected to children (at least with some probability) nearly everywhere a person might choose to be armed. Heck, some might choose to be armed especially around kids they feel responsible for, kids being otherwise defenseless.

    Most of this forum have had a lot of time and discussion to ponder this issue. Most of us have concluded that, on the balance, open carry can only serve to benefit open carry.

    The very motto of this site, "A right unexercised is a right lost", was created as a continuing rebuttal to your argument.

    Try not to feel too "piled on", though. Considering that most of the forum agrees with the above, it's not surprising that you encounter lots of disagreement. That doesn't mean your opinion is unwanted, or that we don't consider discussion of the matter important all the same.
    Last edited by marshaul; 05-09-2014 at 04:06 PM.

  19. #19
    Regular Member Contrarian's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    Seattle,WA, , USA
    Posts
    266

    Question School outing carry

    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    I generally don't bother making suggestions regarding what people do with their freedoms. That's the whole point: they're his freedoms, not mine.

    I certainly don't think he should not carry if that's what his heart and mind tell him to do. I fail to see what makes children any different than anybody else when it comes to the presence of firearms.
    My thought on this would be what negative reaction might this have on the student ?
    Lots of places allow open/concealed carry, but school boards and administrators can be vindictive.

  20. #20
    Regular Member mellio's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Central, Kentucky, USA
    Posts
    101
    I understand what your saying Gutshot and it's a good point. What's the use of having a right if you don't use it. It's just that this particular issue is one that I could see the media having a field day with.
    Marshaul, you make a very good point as well. Maybe I worry too much about how the media and the left can run with an issue.
    I do wonder why we haven't heard back from the Op. I wonder what he decided to do, and how it went.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk

  21. #21
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Owingsville,KY
    Posts
    1,039
    Quote Originally Posted by gutshot View Post
    Bingo!! Primus has it right. Read it like this; "in any public or private school building or bus, on any public or private school campus, grounds, recreation area, athletic field, or any other property owned, used, ......for the administration of any public or private educational institution."





    Good point. You wouldn't have to leave McDonalds or Walmart just because school children came in.



    Oh really. Specifically, what railroading? In Ky.?
    The one that comes to mind is the gentleman that just lost his job at Ashland oil. I know that we can claim that technically Ashland oil did not violate the law, but when you can so easily have the screws thrown to you such as this guy did, one must worry. In my case I could see some judge somewhere saying "this property was used by the school, and this trip was educational..so therefor the wording "educational institution" makes it illegal to carry a firearm."

    I know that we can't live our lives in constant fear of a bad deal, but we also have to COA the best that we can. No, I wouldn't leave Walmart or McDonalds if I were carrying just because school children came in. I could be wrong, but if charged with a bogus "gun free school zone" charge, I may have a defense of "I couldn't control the situation." As a chaperon I could see an over zealous prosecutor and anti-gun judge hanging me with my good intentions.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  22. #22
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Owingsville,KY
    Posts
    1,039
    Quote Originally Posted by MontanaResident View Post
    So? No follow up from Self Preservation? Is he trying to make bail, while protecting his backside?
    Naw, just been busy.
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  23. #23
    Regular Member self preservation's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Owingsville,KY
    Posts
    1,039
    Quote Originally Posted by mellio View Post
    I definitely know it's going on already but I bet if you ask most anyone if a chaperone on a school field trip is allowed to carry a gun they would say no. I think it's better for most people to not even have the opportunity to think about an issue like this and if his gun were noticed it very well could be brought to the publics attention. A news story such as this is much more likely to sway moderate thinking people to the left than bringing them to our side. I'm just suggesting that it would be better that no one see him carrying while on a field trip with children. I think most would agree with that.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I537 using Tapatalk
    Had my concealed gun been discovered, would there have been a stink raised??........you bet your a$$. If "Adam Lanza" walked in and started shooting, but I was able to stop him, would the media milk the story dry? You bet! Some people would hail me a hero for saving the children. Others would paint me to be as evil of a villain as the shooter himself for having that mean ole nasty gun around their babies, despite the fact that me doing what was right instead of what is popular may be the very reason that little Johnny and Susie came home that night.

    It's one hell of a nasty pickle. What do we do?
    “The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.” Edmund Burke

    self-pres·er·va·tion (slfprzr-vshn)
    n.
    1. Protection of oneself from harm or destruction.
    2. The instinct for individual preservation; the innate desire to stay alive.

  24. #24
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Location
    Thru Death's Door in Wisconsin
    Posts
    13,166
    Quote Originally Posted by self preservation View Post
    [ ... ]It's one hell of a nasty pickle. What do we do?
    What we believe is right in principle. Devil take the hindmost.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •