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Thread: Open Carry Article - Only Open Carrier's Rights Matter (Apparently)

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    Open Carry Article - Only Open Carrier's Rights Matter (Apparently)

    “Look at my gun!” Why NRA’s scary “open carry” craze is not about freedom

    "Freedom for a man with a gun trumps freedom for parents of kids who feel endangered by him. Our scary new reality"

    http://www.salon.com/2014/05/07/look...about_freedom/

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    This is merely natural law rights versus the penumbra of negative-rights found in the progressive constitution. Freedom, as from fear, comes from understanding and not from denying another right.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member Outdoorsman's Avatar
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    I've been reading some of the comments and it's amazing the hatred and ignorance these people spew.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman View Post
    I've been reading some of the comments and it's amazing the hatred and ignorance these people spew.
    Some folks think that only the police should have guns .. they have been indoctrinated well.

    Who defends your RKBA - you do.

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Why would anyone expect anything other than lies and distortions concerning an incident involving firearms in an article in Salon magazine?
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    Regular Member carolina guy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Why would anyone expect anything other than lies and distortions concerning an incident involving firearms in an article in Salon magazine?
    +1
    If something is wrong for ONE person to do to another, it is still wrong if a BILLION people do it.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Outdoorsman View Post
    I've been reading some of the comments and it's amazing the hatred and ignorance these people spew.
    I was going to read the comments but... just couldn't do it today. Maybe later. I'd just end up getting pissed off.

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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    You're sure setting the standard for your work pretty low when you associate us with the NRA. And the article certainly sucked.

    You cannot reason with someone who runs on hatred, fear, and wanting armed thugs paid by tax dollars to oppress people, going so far as to declare these things to be the definition of freedom for all. This kind of person is a sniveling, scared little servant to big brother because it makes them feel like their life is stable and has a purpose. That she would so ignorantly slander OCers tells us all we need to know about her as a journalist.

    Fortunately, most people aren't that mentally unstable, and reaching out to those on the fence is all that is needed to keep people like Heather Parton from having any political reach.
    Last edited by Michigander; 05-12-2014 at 08:40 PM.
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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Most of those types really live delusional lives. What they fail to understand - (gov statistics) is: for every 1,000 citizens in the USA, there are less than 2 (1.7) members of LEA's including all the alphabet soup agencies. This means on a perfect day/shift if something goes wrong and you happen to be the 50th caller to 911 in your city- the chances of you getting help quickly are drastically reduced. Let alone in a SHTF situation the police will simply be overwhelmed. See LA riots, Hurricanes Katrina, or Sandy for just how much you can really count on Big Bro!
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 05-13-2014 at 09:06 PM.
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    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    I was going to read the comments but... just couldn't do it today. Maybe later. I'd just end up getting pissed off.
    Nah, it's pretty funny really.

    It's a prefect demonstration of why, exactly, the anti-gun movement fails so hard in the face of real opposition (which they did not experience in the past) despite the support of a political party and several multimillionaires.

    These folks are simply constitutionally incapable of making a genuine argument. I was called a "racist" for remarks which explicitly described racist thought as "irrational". Because, when you can't fathom a meaningful rebuttal, name-calling serves to demonize your opponent, and "racist" is a tried-and-true epithet.

    The problem is, that argument only works on their echo chamber. To another "progressive" illiberal statist, calling someone a "racist" is as good as a coup de grace.

    Back in the real world, people of every color and cultural background embrace the RKBA. Calling someone a racist for being pro-gun doesn't impress a gun-owning American who happens to be black any more than it impresses one who happens to be white.

    Unfortunately for them, as time goes on their view of gun rights as being favorited and enjoyed only by whites (especially racist ones) has increasingly little connection with reality.
    Last edited by marshaul; 05-13-2014 at 10:47 PM.

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    Regular Member Evil Creamsicle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by marshaul View Post
    Nah, it's pretty funny really.

    It's a prefect demonstration of why, exactly, the anti-gun movement fails so hard in the face of real opposition (which they did not experience in the past) despite the support of a political party and several multimillionaires.

    These folks are simply constitutionally incapable of making a genuine argument. I was called a "racist" for remarks which explicitly described racist thought as "irrational". Because, when you can't fathom a meaningful rebuttal, name-calling serves to demonize your opponent, and "racist" is a tried-and-true epithet.

    The problem is, that argument only works on their echo chamber. To another "progressive" illiberal statist, calling someone a "racist" is as good as a coup de grace.

    Back in the real world, people of every color and cultural background embrace the RKBA. Calling someone a racist for being pro-gun doesn't impress a gun-owning American who happens to be black any more than it impresses one who happens to be white.

    Unfortunately for them, as time goes on their view of gun rights as being favorited and enjoyed only by whites (especially racist ones) has increasingly little connection with reality.
    Its a little funny considering that many gun control measures, including carry licensing, background checks, and registration, were influenced by racism. The complete opposite of their argument.

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Creamsicle View Post
    Its a little funny considering that many gun control measures, including carry licensing, background checks, and registration, were influenced by racism. The complete opposite of their argument.
    Any "Violation" of OUR Rights (race not included in OUR Constitution) IS "UnAmerican" and should be Fought With Our Lives, as has been done ALWAYS,Per Memorial Day Etc.!! CARRY ON!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Some folks think that only the police should have guns .. they have been indoctrinated well.

    Who defends your RKBA - you do.
    There are some folks here on this forum and on other gun forums that think only police should open carry - they have been indoctrinated well.

    It's clear they do not understand the RKBA. Fortunately, like the Fudds before them, OC Fudds will become extinct -either by seeing the light or just becoming extinct. I couldn't care less which.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    You're sure setting the standard for your work pretty low when you associate us with the NRA. And the article certainly sucked.

    You cannot reason with someone who runs on hatred, fear, and wanting armed thugs paid by tax dollars to oppress people, going so far as to declare these things to be the definition of freedom for all. This kind of person is a sniveling, scared little servant to big brother because it makes them feel like their life is stable and has a purpose. That she would so ignorantly slander OCers tells us all we need to know about her as a journalist.

    Fortunately, most people aren't that mentally unstable, and reaching out to those on the fence is all that is needed to keep people like Heather Parton from having any political reach.
    I'm just curious, what did the NRA do that was so bad?

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    I'm just curious, what did the NRA do that was so bad?
    Adopt the business model of selling dispensations from the infringement of the Second Amendment. Many/most states require training certified by the NRA as prerequisite to a carry permit. The NRA teaches its training counselors (teach instructors) that a teaching fee is essential to effective pedagogy, giving the fee-paying student skin-in-the-game impetus to learn.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    NRA for the people who doubted NRA motives the cat is out of the bag. NRA is anti open carry, anti constitutional carry, and PRO make fools of the members and get their money. They have done a very good job of fooling and lying to the gun community. Hope that the community finally takes notice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    NRA for the people who doubted NRA motives the cat is out of the bag. NRA is anti open carry, anti constitutional carry, and PRO make fools of the members and get their money. They have done a very good job of fooling and lying to the gun community. Hope that the community finally takes notice.
    While not perfect, are you saying they didn't have a hand and sponsor District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570? Just curious, everybody is entitled to their opinion.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    While not perfect, are you saying they didn't have a hand and sponsor District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570? Just curious, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
    Actually if I remember correctly no they did not. They early in the case refused to get involved from what I understand. Not positive but I believe it was GOA that was behind that decision from the beginning. Scratch that, seems it was SAF, NRA later came on board, only after the suit was already filed. They like to take credit for it, though 2A rights were not restored in the decision, DC does not have the right to bear arms, only keep them.

    Maybe somebody with a better memory can chime in...
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 06-02-2014 at 07:44 PM.
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    Make it simple, one Aww-snit wipes out a thousand Atta-boys. Their hypothetical hand in Heller is one Atta-boy.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    This is after all Salon Magazine, a less than honest and less than reputable "media" outlet. About the ONLY aspect of that article that I found the least bit surprising was that the author was permitted to blatantly LIE. That bit about an Open Carrier waving his gun around and yelling look at my gun was a bald faced LIE. Because that particular act fits the definition of Brandishing to near perfection and I am quite certain that the responding police would have made an arrest if the carrier was in fact doing that. The fact they didn't do anything tells me that the person carrying in that park had his gun in his holster and he was most likely doing nothing but watching the baseball game.

    Basically, when it's Salon Magazine if it's a "slow news day" they just make something up. What saddens me is that it seems that more than 3 or 4 people believe the fiction they see in this "magazine". Rather sad that people can really be this dumb.

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    Regular Member OneForAll's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Scooter123 View Post
    This is after all Salon Magazine, a less than honest and less than reputable "media" outlet. About the ONLY aspect of that article that I found the least bit surprising was that the author was permitted to blatantly LIE. That bit about an Open Carrier waving his gun around and yelling look at my gun was a bald faced LIE. Because that particular act fits the definition of Brandishing to near perfection and I am quite certain that the responding police would have made an arrest if the carrier was in fact doing that. The fact they didn't do anything tells me that the person carrying in that park had his gun in his holster and he was most likely doing nothing but watching the baseball game.

    Basically, when it's Salon Magazine if it's a "slow news day" they just make something up. What saddens me is that it seems that more than 3 or 4 people believe the fiction they see in this "magazine". Rather sad that people can really be this dumb.
    +1
    "To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them."
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    Some random person, "I will not give up safety because of a few misplaced concerns of the uneducated." end quote...

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    Activist Member hamaneggs's Avatar
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    Lightbulb

    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    While not perfect, are you saying they didn't have a hand and sponsor District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570? Just curious, everybody is entitled to their opinion.
    If they play any part they're on Our side! They helped with My Federal "Open Carry Suit", which made the WPD pay Me and forced them to "Retrain" their Officers in "Open Carry Law and Contact Policy". So I would say the NRA IS Pro-OC/Pro 2A! No Group is Perfect! CARRY ON!
    Last edited by hamaneggs; 06-05-2014 at 08:42 PM.
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Actually if I remember correctly no they did not.
    Yep, they are good at taking credit for things other people do, and otherwise jumping on the bandwagon after the hard work is done. My understanding is that it was the SAF that took on both the Heller and McDonald cases, and that the NRA threw their 2 cents in after the fact.
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michigander View Post
    Yep, they are good at taking credit for things other people do, and otherwise jumping on the bandwagon after the hard work is done. My understanding is that it was the SAF that took on both the Heller and McDonald cases, and that the NRA threw their 2 cents in after the fact.
    The NRA has also taken credit for things that they had nothing do with. AzCDL can vouch for that here in AZ. Hey, if Al Gore invented the internet on his own....anything is possible, I guess?
    Sarcasm off /
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    Regular Member Michigander's Avatar
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    Yep, they seem to do it a lot.

    It was before my time, but I have heard, and maybe some of you guys can confirm, that MCRGO got shall issue done with heavy grass roots activism, and that the NRA later tried to take credit.

    What have they done in AZ, apart from see to it that OCing where booze is sold is illegal? (CC only, with license, for those who aren't familiar)
    Answer every question about open carry in Michigan you ever had with one convenient and free book- http://libertyisforeveryone.com/open-carry-resources/

    The complete and utter truth can be challenged from every direction and it will always hold up. Accordingly there are few greater displays of illegitimacy than to attempt to impede free thought and communication.

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