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Thread: Walgreens Cops Called for Open Carry (Encounter Detail)

  1. #1
    Regular Member ICEN's Avatar
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    Thumbs up Walgreens Cops Called for Open Carry (Encounter Detail)

    I am in the city of Uniontown in Pa in case people want to know.

    Today is the first time I ever had the cops called on my for open carrying my handgun. I have open carried about 6 times before this so it took around the 7th time for the cops to be called. Also the funniest part is that I have open carried in front of cop cars while they drive by and none has stopped me before this, I have been in places like the mall, by a school, stores, streets, any place you can really think of and today at Walgreens is the only time the cops were called.

    Now I have no clue who called the cops, I tried to ask them but they kind of ignored it by talking to me with other things. I assume that someone near Walgreens called the cops, either someone who seen me walking towards Walgreens or someone in the parking lot.

    I will start from when I enter the store.

    - So I walk into Walgreens to get milk. I walk in front of the cashier who probably seen my gun but didn't say anything, I continue to walk to where the drinks are. When I get there, there are about 4 people and I am assuming some of them seen my gun but once again didn't say anything or seem to care because they still were talking next to me to each other. Some were kids and some were older ladies. I then grab the milk and go to the cashier to checkout where there is a line of about 3 people. This whole part only took me about 1 minute so I was in and ALMOST out fast.

    Then I seen a male cop enter the store. At first I thought he was in Walgreens because he was going to buy something, me thinking that he wasn't there because of my gun was just hoping he would walk by and not see my gun or at least not care but it turns out that he was actually there because someone called the cops on me. Just as he was about to walk past me he nodded his head at me as if implying "I am here for you after you checkout". As he nods I notice a 2nd officer enters the store now and is walking over. The 1st officer who nodded his head then tells me in a low voice "Don't reach for your gun" which I then reply and say something along the lines of "I know I am not that stupid".

    While I am still waiting in line the two cops are just chilling next to me not saying anything yet, so I nicely said to the 1st officer I have ID if you want to see it. He was thinking in his head if he wanted me to give it to him inside the store or not but after he realized I was sitting in line he just said okay. I then give him my ID while waiting in line just because I know giving him ID is going to make me get out easy and make me along with all gun owners look good also it will look good in front of people watching this going on in front of them.

    While the 1st officer is looking at my ID the 2nd officer says "What gun is that if you don't mind me asking" I said its a Ruger Sr9c 9mm. The 2nd officer then says "it must be new".. this left me confused because I thought he ment my gun was new as in he never seen that type of gun before thinking it was new, so I said what do you mean new? (Because the Ruger Sr9c has been out). He then says "I mean that you keep your gun clean it looks new" which then I tell him that I actually bought it used. While I am checking out I can hear my name on the walkie talkie which I think ment as I am good to go, it literally only took about 20 seconds for me to hear my name after I gave him my ID. Right before I am checking out I noticed a 3rd officer come in the store, now I am laughing in my heading at how many cops are coming

    The officer nods his shoulder right as I pick up my milk as if he is saying "lets go this way" meaning outside to talk. As I am walking with the 3 officers outside I am laughing my ass off inside as I just notice a 4th cop getting ready to come in the store. Outside the cops basically just told me that it is my right to open carry but if I don't want them to keep being called it would be best to conceal carry. They said since it is hotter out that more people will call in about me with a gun that I should conceal carry if I don't want them to be an annoyance to me. The 2nd officer then says "if you are open carrying like that in a restaurant a robber would shoot you first" of course he is assuming that I would open carry in there, have no awareness and the robber would do that, but I get what he was trying to say, to me he seemed to like conceal carry more from how he was talking about it.

    I then explain that I believe that there is a situation where open carry is better than conceal carry, I told them that a robber would choose to rob me if I was concealing over if I was open carrying because by concealing the robber think I have no weapon which means he would attempt to rob me, therefor I am in a situation now. Both officers just looked at me like they wanted to say "no" but they didn't say anything, they kind of looked confused like they didn't know what I was talking about or something. The 2nd officer said but the guy will have his gun out, I then said but by open carrying that robber wouldn't choose me to rob in the first place, then we stopped talking about that.

    One of the 3rd or 4th officers said something like, yea someone might beat you up for carrying like that. I was not sure what he ment by that, I thought he ment another police officer because once he said that the other first Two officers quickly said "NOT US, WE WOULDN'T DO THAT WE MEAN SOMEONE ELSE".
    It ended with the 1st officer basically saying it would be better to conceal to save them trouble but if I got my permit I can still open carry if I choose to.
    The 1st officer said "Thanks for being cooperative" then we went out separate ways.

    My Thoughts on the officers : IMO to me it seemed that they personally didn't like open carry, they still respected it as my right but I could tell the first two officers seemed to like it better if I would conceal. They didn't say it as in I BETTER do it but I could tell they were talking as if they don't like open carry much.
    Other than that they seemed nice which is another reason I gave ID.

    Why did I give ID? Because I felt that it benefited me to give ID in every way shape and form. I have seen many videos on open carry where people just be dick to cops and refuse ID not because they really don't want to give them it but mainly to be a ass hole about it. I decided that I will be cool in their eyes and give them ID to prove that gun owners are not dicks and just want to cause a commotion. Also in front of people who never see people open carry I wanted to come across as someone who looks like they have manners and is someone they would not be afraid of with a gun or someone with a attitude. I gave ID and I literally got on my way with under 2 minutes, most people on youtube take like 15+ minutes just to leave because they act like a dick. Also I even live in the projects and the police didn't say anything, why? Because like I said when you are nice to people they are nice back. I know I didn't have to give ID but I offered it first without them even asking to make me look even better, on top of this it gives gun owners a better reputation at least in my town since nobody open carries, It will be me who makes the rep of open carriers in my town so I have to make sure I don't make us look bad.

    When Walking Home : I had a car drive by without a roof, there were kids in the back screaming hey/hi, I think they were in Walgreens when all this happened so I waved at them when they went by, to me they looked at me as cool I think. Then something weird happened, as I am walking home thinking who called the cops I am about to cross the street but... a truck stops and I can tell it wants to turn. I look over and notice the lady who is the passenger has her phone with the camera aiming at me, this makes me think she is recording me because I have a gun or maybe she wasn't but thats what it made it look like to me. I just pointed as in "Go ahead" not wtf she was doing lol

    My rating is 9/10 over all, they are not 10 just because I felt they didn't like that I was open carrying even though they kept saying I can do it if I want.
    Speed of encounter 10/10 = I was out under 2 minutes [mainly because I gave ID]
    Cops attitude 10/10 = They were nice and not all freaked out
    Cops attitude about open carry 9/10 = they respected it as my right but I felt they didn't like me doing it.

    Although I felt the cops didn't like open carry that much, I still am going to open carry, hopefully they don't think I am a dick for doing it but what is the point of open carry if they don't like it. I like open carry better so hopefully they will still be okay with that.
    Last edited by ICEN; 05-11-2014 at 06:59 PM.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Outside the cops basically just told me that it is my right to open carry but if I don't want them to keep being called it would be best to conceal carry.
    "Oh, I don't mind if you keep getting called; idle hands are the devil's workshop, y'know. Say, I know you're busy guys, so maybe we should do a little scheduling? Can I pencil you in for 3 O'clock tomorrow at Wooty-Tooty's subs'n'snacks? Corner of 3rd and Main, you guys know it?
    Do you think it would help any if I just called every morning and told you guys where I was going to be?"

  3. #3
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Two more cops that think they can demand ID from citizens. Never ever.

    P.A has no stop and I.D statute for one. For another stopping a person solely because they are armed is illegal.

    Ask if you are being detained and insist on an answer. If yes make them give you a specific reason. If it isnt a lawful reason cite relevant case law.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/fede...-carrying-guns
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    Regular Member ICEN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Two more cops that think they can demand ID from citizens. Never ever.

    P.A has no stop and I.D statute for one. For another stopping a person solely because they are armed is illegal.

    Ask if you are being detained and insist on an answer. If yes make them give you a specific reason. If it isnt a lawful reason cite relevant case law.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/fede...-carrying-guns
    They didn't demand OR even ask for my ID. I said that I OFFERED it because I don't care and it makes me look better. I already knew that I did not have to give them ID and what they seen was someone who obviously didn't care to give them ID which is why I was in and out in less than 2 minutes while other people take 30 minutes just to stop arguing over something stupid. Well its not stupid if you don't want to give ID you don't have to but I said I GAVE IT they didn't ask for it though.

    My thing is this : The officers were cool young guys, why would I want to refuse my ID even though they didn't ask for it what good does it do for me? I don't care in the first place if they know my name or not because I am the type that simple does not care about much. The cops could peek through my window I would just laugh. Like I said, how much I don't care is that I gave them ID knowing that I live in the projects where I am not even allowed to keep a firearm in my house. I gave it to them because I simply do not care and other reasons.

    What I did was give all open carriers in my town a good name and make guns look less scary to people who was in Walgreens watching me talk to 4 cops because I have a gun. What do you think someone in Walgreens is going to think of a person that is refusing to give ID with a gun, the typically person who knows nothing about guns will think I am just one of those idiots with a gun who causes problems, what they seen today was someone with a gun give ID and the cops THANKED ME, I did not thank THEM THEY THANKED ME in front of people.

    That gives gun open carriers a good name.

    Its great that people want to refuse ID and that is your own choice but lets be honest it does not give open carriers a great name when you start being a A-Hole for no reason. Lets get it strait though, if a cop is being a jerk or getting on my nerves I will refuse ID but like I said these cops were cool and I AM THE ONE who offered ID it was my choice they didn't even ask.

    You were very quick to jump on about the whole ID thing, which maybe I am judging you wrong but it makes it seem as you are one of those youtubers who just wait until a cop comes so you can scream I DON'T HAVE TO SHOW YOU ID!!!! That does not make open carriers look good.

    Its a freaking ID with your name on it, if you are insecure about your name and address then don't write it down when you go buy a gun from a gun shop either.

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    We have only the rights that we defend.

    The Fourth Amendment to the Constitution of The United States: The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-11-2014 at 07:35 PM.
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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Being stopped for no conceivably good reason is a waste of everyone's time and energy as well as illegal. I will not willing participate in such silly games.

    Let me assure the OP - you were stopped/detained. You also presume to lecture us on what is good for OC. Performing unneeded acts whether by demand or by voluntary action seldom is good for the individual - remember they are either going to arrest you formally, hassel you or go fishing.

    Only if the officer(s) had said in the beginning, "You are doing nothing wrong, have a nice day" would everything have been good and a positive message delivered to the general public.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-11-2014 at 07:47 PM. Reason: added
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    *sees that was your third post* Perhaps I came on a little strong.

    Quote Originally Posted by ICEN View Post
    My thing is this : The officers were cool young guys, why would I want to refuse my ID even though they didn't ask for it what good does it do for me?
    Thing is LEOs will find any excuse to arrest you. They don't care about your rights and many times if you give them an inch, they will take a mile

    Quote Originally Posted by ICEN View Post
    You were very quick to jump on about the whole ID thing, which maybe I am judging you wrong but it makes it seem as you are one of those youtubers who just wait until a cop comes so you can scream I DON'T HAVE TO SHOW YOU ID!!!! That does not make open carriers look good.
    I would only give them as much trouble as they give me. Some will accept you don't have to show I.D, submit to a search etc and if they do thats fine. Those that do want to give me hassle though I will defend my constitutional rights with everything I have

    Quote Originally Posted by ICEN View Post
    Its a freaking ID with your name on it, if you are insecure about your name and address then don't write it down when you go buy a gun from a gun shop either.
    it's not that I or anyone else here is insecure it's the fact it's simply none of anyones business who I am. If I am detained lawfully fine. They can have whatever they are allowed to by law and by due process. Otherwise they get nothing.
    Last edited by rightwinglibertarian; 05-11-2014 at 07:44 PM.
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    Regular Member ICEN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    *sees that was your third post* Perhaps I came on a little strong.



    Thing is LEOs will find any excuse to arrest you. They don't care about your rights and many times if you give them an inch, they will take a mile



    I would only give them as much trouble as they give me. Some will accept you don't have to show I.D, submit to a search etc and if they do thats fine. Those that do want to give me hassle though I will defend my constitutional rights with everything I have



    it's not that I or anyone else here is insecure it's the fact it's simply none of anyones business who I am. If I am detained lawfully fine. They can have whatever they are allowed to by law and by due process. Otherwise they get nothing.
    Sooo... what exactly has happened now since I gave them ID because all they did was take 20 seconds then I was free to go? I don't see anything crazy happening from me giving ID and they didn't even follow me back to the projects which they had to know I am going to anyways.

    My question is : So what happens when I give ID

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICEN View Post
    --snipped--
    My question is : So what happens when I give ID
    You made a personal decision - that is you prerogative.

    Giving them your social security number, phone number, and place of employment would be your choice too.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ICEN View Post
    [ ... ]My question is : So what happens when I give ID
    They are trained - dog like - that their unwarranted demand for papers will be tolerated by some.

    Learn the history and significance of Ihre papieren, bitte!
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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Being stopped for no conceivably good reason is a waste of everyone's time and energy as well as illegal. I will not willing participate in such silly games.

    Let me assure the OP - you were stopped/detained. You also presume to lecture us on what is good for OC. Performing unneeded acts whether by demand or by voluntary action seldom is good for the individual - remember they are either going to arrest you formally, hassel you or go fishing.

    Only if the officer(s) had said in the beginning, "You are doing nothing wrong, have a nice day" would everything have been good and a positive message delivered to the general public.
    +1

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    Regular Member ICEN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Being stopped for no conceivably good reason is a waste of everyone's time and energy as well as illegal. I will not willing participate in such silly games.

    Let me assure the OP - you were stopped/detained. You also presume to lecture us on what is good for OC. Performing unneeded acts whether by demand or by voluntary action seldom is good for the individual - remember they are either going to arrest you formally, hassel you or go fishing.

    Only if the officer(s) had said in the beginning, "You are doing nothing wrong, have a nice day" would everything have been good and a positive message delivered to the general public.
    Lets pretend I didn't give ID.

    I say "NO" (assuming they would have asked for ID)
    they stall me by detaining me forcing me to either give ID or false arrest to get ID.

    Now what? Lets also pretend I refuse the ID the 2nd time then I am in the back of a police car where they will get my name ect

    Now I am suppose to go complain after they still get what they wanted + now everytime I see them they are going to be A-Holes

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    Accomplished Advocate BB62's Avatar
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    First, welcome ICEN!

    My suggestion to you is this: if you are stopped/detained again, as you were this time, regardless of whether or not you recognize it, handle things just the way you did this time.

    Give ID before it's asked for, tell the officers where you're going if asked, and listen politely to the advice they give you. Make sure lots of people see that you've given your ID to the officers, which will make clear to the unaware bystander that open carriers must have to do that kind of thing - otherwise they wouldn't be "nice".

    If those things make you happy, then do them each time the situation repeats itself. Please come back to this thread and give us the details of your next similar encounter. Please do so for the next and the next and the next also.

    After about 3-6 repetitions of the same thing, see if your attitude changes. If not, hey, it's your life and I and others respect your choice to responsibly carry however you care to.

    On the other hand, if your attitude does change, refer back to this thread and look anew at the opinions which have been, and may continue to be offered. See if you view them in a new light.

    Finally, thanks for writing clearly and using paragraphs! What a blessing! (and I mean that sincerely) A couple suggestions though: it's not "I seen", it's "I saw" and it's not "he ment", it's "he meant".

    Best wishes, and we hope you'll stick around.
    Last edited by BB62; 05-11-2014 at 08:13 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member ICEN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BB62 View Post
    First, welcome ICEN!

    My suggestion to you is this: if you are stopped/detained again, as you were this time, regardless of whether or not you recognize it, handle things just the way you did this time.

    Give ID before it's asked for, tell the officers where you're going if asked, and listen politely to the advice they give you. Make sure lots of people see that you've given your ID to the officers, which will make clear to the unaware bystander that open carriers must have to do that kind of thing - otherwise they wouldn't be "nice".

    If those things make you happy, then do them each time the situation repeats itself. Please come back to this thread and give us the details of your next similar encounter. Please do so for the next and the next and the next also.

    After about 3-6 repetitions of the same thing, see if your attitude changes. If not, hey, it's your life and I and others respect your choice to responsibly carry however you care to.

    On the other hand, if your attitude does change, refer back to this thread and look anew at the opinions which have been, and may continue to be offered. See if you view them in a new light.

    Finally, thanks for writing clearly and using paragraphs! What a blessing! (and I mean that sincerely) A couple suggestions though: it's not "I seen", it's "I saw" and it's not "he ment", it's "he meant".

    Best wishes, and we hope you'll stick around.
    Nobody still answered my question what happened though since I gave ID, I thought I was suppose to be getting 50 questions and them trying to find out ways to arrest me or something lolol

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Is there a audio recording?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Regular Member ICEN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    Is there a audio recording?
    No

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    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICEN View Post
    No
    Kinda shows how important it is to record, because when the officer said 'someone will beat you up for OC-ing' you have it on tape and can call in and report it to his captain. That's a THREAT, clear and simple, regardless of them saying 'oh no, not us'.

    Do not OC again without turning on your recorder when you leave the house.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    QFT ^ ^ ^

    Auto insurance - check.

    Home owners or renters insurance - check.

    Fire extinguisher(s) - check

    Spare tire - check

    Cell phone - check

    Digital recorder - Yes!!
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ICEN View Post
    Nobody still answered my question what happened though since I gave ID, I thought I was suppose to be getting 50 questions and them trying to find out ways to arrest me or something lolol
    Why? They were apparently satisfied with how well your training in acquiescence and submissiveness was coming along. They didn't even have to exercise extra-legal control over you, you volunteered. Heck, you even bragged on an internet forum about how quickly you rolled over on your back like a good puppy.

  20. #20
    Campaign Veteran marshaul's Avatar
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    My rating is 0/10. The officers attempted to chill a constitutionally-enumerated right by threatening you with police harassment for behavior they admit they know is legal, and constitutionally-protected.

    There is absolutely no aspect of this encounter which is acceptable.

    Also, by behaving as though it is, you are ultimately encouraging the cops in their behavior. You should have immediately filed a complaint.

  21. #21
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    as has been previously proffered, welcome to the forum & thanks for sharing your experience.

    please do not get alarmed by those member(s) who are critical of everyone's reactions, which they emotiionally believe do not fit their personal perspective of 'norm' reactions to certain situations, especially those individuals just beginning to OC.

    though as BB pointed out, like everything else if you continue to read the entire forum membership's perspective(s) you will begin to discern what fits your personality in dealing with these types of situations and be comfortable with yourself afterwards. i liken their suggestion(s) to the olde "my chevy is better than your piece of crap ford" type discussions but some recommendations have merit and some are 'eh...who cares' type suggestions. you make those type of decisions based on a number of factors, such expendable money to purchase a recorder, a different holster, etc.

    of course, i need to put my two cents in so my suggestion(s) is to take a pistol course, review to utube vignettes on 'do not talk to the police', as well as ensure you are up to snuff on the statutes of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania ~ not so you can argue w/those who might challenge you on the street but it makes you a better individual who is aware of the boundaries LE can maintain.

    finally, if you are ever so curious, you could file an freedom of information request to see what the officers actually turned in on their encounter w/you.

    again welcome, thanks for sharing, and enjoy your open carrying in your community.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-12-2014 at 11:12 AM.
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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    I understand why the OP behaved how he did and i typically would do the same thing. (of course, in TN, we are required to show HCP/CCW permit upon request). However, my tolerance for being harassed is getting lower. People ask me why i support constitutional carry? For situations just like this. If someone has a firearm in a holster and is conducting their business, they are not a threat anymore than a person sitting in a high HP car.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    I would only give them as much trouble as they give me. ...........give me hassle though I will defend my constitutional rights with everything I have.
    This is Truth.

    Firstly, welcome to OCDO. You got your first LEO encounter right away and it is behind you. It took years and years before I had mine. I did not record. I started off very polite, was countered by a bully, and it escalated from there.
    I like your attitude of Politeness, there is never enough of that. As stated tho, if a LEO acts like an a$$, I will not put up with that. I do not answer questions, I ask questions. Have them justify the stop.

    FOI requests. Yes, would you like to know who called? Would you like to know what was said? Would you like to get a copy of the poilce report, just to see if it is based in reality or a definite piece of fiction? All you need do is ask.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  24. #24
    Centurion
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    Yuma, Arizona, USA
    Posts
    923

    Welcome ICEN, I think you did well for the first time

    Quote Originally Posted by ICEN View Post
    No
    I think you did very well for a first encounter. Sure, there are lots of things that could be refined, but for someone living in the projects, and fairly young, I think you did well.

    I highly recommend a recorder. They can be had for about $50, or many phones have a recorder option. Think of it as insurance.

    http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Digital-F...oice+Recorders

    It is not easy to be a pioneer, which you are doing in your area. As the police encounter you more, they will become schooled in the law. At some point, I would recommend that you stop producing ID, when you are comfortable with it.


    Glad to have you onboard. Next time you might note to the officers that they carry openly.

  25. #25
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Location
    Philipsburg, Montana
    Posts
    3,137
    This......................
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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