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Thread: This will be interesting to see how it plays out

  1. #1
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    This will be interesting to see how it plays out

    Story goes the mans dog was shot, he went over to confront the man but went to the wrong neighbors house and started a fight. The neighbor then shot him during or after the fight.

    http://www.lewiscountysirens.com/?p=25219

    another link about it

    https://www.facebook.com/groups/114364365275046/

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    Thanks for the non-FB link.

    So Joe goes to Franks house uninvited and starts a ruckus.

    Frank shoots Joe.

    Sucks to be Joe ... I see nothing wrong with Frank's actions.

    If I have an issue with a neighbor, especially a volatile issue, I don't walk over onto his land and complain (that's how you get shot).
    I don't call the police either (I rarely, ever so rarely call the police; I only call the police about gov't activity). I telephone the guy or write to him.

    If I cannot work it out through those means .. then I have other methods.

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    Great thread title. Very descriptive . . .

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    The fight was witnessed by several neighbors, including children

    I guess all those kids learned the value of the RKBA ! That's the lesson I would tell my kid..and also don't pound on people's doors in the middle of the night.

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    “I hate that someone just chose to take him away from me and my family, especially when we just began to become real siblings again,” Shive-Stanton said.

    Jo Anne Weiler, who held Shiver’s hand as he died, said she has lived in the Salkum area since the late 1960s and is appalled that two different neighbors — armed with guns — caused and escalated a dispute that ended Shive’s life.

    “This was the kind of place you wanted your kids to grow up — not anymore,” she said.

    His friends said Shive was unarmed at the time of his death, and likely would not have attacked the neighbor if he did not have a gun pointed at him.
    Wow, so he attacked the armed man who's porch he was on?

    If someone pulls a gun on me I don't bum rush the guy I put hand up and try to defuse the issue. If someone had rushed me, while I was armed, after banging on my door I'd likely have done the same thing as the shooter.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Jo Anne Weiler, who held Shiver’s hand as he died, said she has lived in the Salkum area since the late 1960s and is appalled that two different neighbors — armed with guns — caused and escalated a dispute that ended Shive’s life.


    Well, if it was the same neighbor, it would be suicide.

    Me, I would have just wrote the guy a nice letter asking him not to pound on my door like that. It ain't neighborly.

    Odd that Jo Anne did not rush up and try to defuse the situation...I wonder why? She's a bad neighbor, that's why!

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    "He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
    OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    "He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
    OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.
    Standing on your own private property has different rules than standing on someone else's property or a public street corner.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    Standing on your own private property has different rules than standing on someone else's property or a public street corner.
    Bingo.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    "He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
    OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.
    And a Molotov cocktail thrown threw into your window?

    If I felt threatened, my objective is to eliminate the threatening party. Hiding from the party does not necessarily eliminate the threat.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    "He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
    OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.
    It's his own yard. He loses the right to use it how/when he wants when some angry fellow comes around?

    Or is the yard only kind of his, but the house, now that's really his, dang it.
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    Last edited by hhofent; 05-13-2014 at 11:28 PM.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    "He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
    OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.
    ?Why resist at all, if he enters your house just out the back door and be safe again......... Hell if you didn't even own a home you wouldn't have to defend it from victims of society.....

    Seriously? You have a right to defend your domicile, on your terms, not the invaders
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by griz_64 View Post
    So the takeaway from the autopsy is that the puny little .380 can be a one-shot stopper. Good to know.

    Not knowing the relevant state law, I'm not going to get involved in the lack of actual debate on stand-your-ground vs escalation of combat. I'll just sit here on the sideline, munching my popcorn, waiting for some folks with actual facts and citations to come forward and present them.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    So the takeaway from the autopsy is that the puny little .380 can be a one-shot stopper. Good to know.

    Not knowing the relevant state law, I'm not going to get involved in the lack of actual debate on stand-your-ground vs escalation of combat. I'll just sit here on the sideline, munching my popcorn, waiting for some folks with actual facts and citations to come forward and present them.

    stay safe.
    Washington has perhaps one of the most defendant friendly self defense laws in the country.

    Aggressive man on shooters property, yelling, accusing him of criminal acts, then lunging at him, shooter fired two shots to the front of aggressor, although witnesses claim agressor was shot in back.

    Seems clear cut to my untrained thoughts. I vote self defense
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 05-14-2014 at 01:55 PM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    I also vote self defense, and I know the guy that was shot. He is a very load and aggressive guy at times, and I'm sure he was half drunk at the time this all happened

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    Regular Member hhofent's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Washington has perhaps one of the most defendant friendly self defense laws in the country.

    Aggressive man on shooters property, yelling, accusing him of criminal acts, then lunging at him, shooter fired two shots to the front of aggressor, although witnesses claim agressor was shot in back.

    Seems clear cut to my untrained thoughts. I vote self defense
    Self defense, absolutely. For all the reasons listed above. Escalation/failure to try to run away should only apply when you can run home. this guys already at home, minding his own business. Where is he gonna run? Inside? Then when the guy comes in, to a hotel? Your front yard/porch isn't less of your property.

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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    "He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
    OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.
    Quote Originally Posted by griz_64 View Post
    From the linked article:

    CORRECTION: This news story has been updated to clarify the 56-year-old resident never opened the front door, and only left his house one time to meet up with Shive in his yard.
    So apparently, he did not "feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside".
    No right is held more sacred, or is more carefully guarded, by the common law than the right of every individual to the possession and control of his own person, free from all restraint or interference of others, unless by clear and unquestionable authority of law. Union Pacific Rail Co. vs Botsford as quoted in Terry v Ohio.


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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    911 what is your emergency?
    My neighbor is standing on my front porch yelling at me about his dog getting shot.
    Sir, please stay inside with your door locked and we will get someone there as soon as possible.
    OK, but I am holding my gun, just so everyone knows.
    That's fine sir, just don't open the door or go outside until the police tell you that you can.
    OK, no problem.

    Would have been a lot simpler.
    ....uh, he's breaking in my door. Do I retreat to my bathroom and lock the door?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

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    Regular Member Alpine's Avatar
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    You have a right to carry on your own property and on public property. It wouldn't matter whether the guy was in a park or on his porch. When the trespasser lunged at him after making threats, the trespasser forfeited his life.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alpine View Post
    You have a right to carry on your own property and on public property. It wouldn't matter whether the guy was in a park or on his porch. When the trespasser lunged at him after making threats, the trespasser forfeited his life.
    Exactly right.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    So - you really don't know the difference between standing on someone's lawn or porch and yelling, and breaking in the door? Maybe this will help:



    The criminal was committing the MISDEMEANOR of trespassing. Behind the locked door of the house there was no IMMINENT DANGER of a felony being committed against the defendant. As soon as the defendant left his house, he placed himself in imminent danger. If the criminal was attempting to actually enter the house - the entire situation changes because then it becomes the actual resistance of an attempt to commit a felony upon the slayer.

    Per the most recent link regarding the situation...

    "She said detectives learned the 56-year-old never opened his front door while Shive was there yelling, as he had it duct taped closed in connection with some kind of repair or renovation."
    I have no other evidence then this but I pose that maybe the door was only held closed by the duct tape? My thoughts are that the owner/shooter walked out his back or side door to confront the man on his porch to prevent the man from easily kicking or knocking his door down?
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    lots of unknown going on with this whole case so far, being able to watch the facebook discussion has made it even that much more interesting with the family and friends posting and wanting to darn near hang the shooter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    The homeowner never retreated anywhere - he advanced towards on the trespasser to confront him.
    Anddddddd?

    One can be 100% right ... and still be wrong.

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