This will be interesting to see how it plays out

griz_64 · May 12, 2014

Story goes the mans dog was shot, he went over to confront the man but went to the wrong neighbors house and started a fight. The neighbor then shot him during or after the fight.

http://www.lewiscountysirens.com/?p=25219

another link about it

https://www.facebook.com/groups/114364365275046/

davidmcbeth · May 12, 2014

Thanks for the non-FB link.

So Joe goes to Franks house uninvited and starts a ruckus.

Frank shoots Joe.

Sucks to be Joe ... I see nothing wrong with Frank's actions.

If I have an issue with a neighbor, especially a volatile issue, I don't walk over onto his land and complain (that's how you get shot).
I don't call the police either (I rarely, ever so rarely call the police; I only call the police about gov't activity). I telephone the guy or write to him.

If I cannot work it out through those means .. then I have other methods.

deanf · May 12, 2014

Great thread title. Very descriptive . . .

griz_64 · May 12, 2014

more info coming it looks like

http://www.chronline.com/article_43f44e32-da00-11e3-b9cc-001a4bcf887a.html

davidmcbeth · May 12, 2014

griz_64 said:
http://www.chronline.com/article_43f44e32-da00-11e3-b9cc-001a4bcf887a.html

The fight was witnessed by several neighbors, including children

I guess all those kids learned the value of the RKBA ! That's the lesson I would tell my kid..and also don't pound on people's doors in the middle of the night.

Freedom1Man · May 12, 2014

griz_64 said:
http://www.chronline.com/article_43f44e32-da00-11e3-b9cc-001a4bcf887a.html

“I hate that someone just chose to take him away from me and my family, especially when we just began to become real siblings again,” Shive-Stanton said.

Jo Anne Weiler, who held Shiver’s hand as he died, said she has lived in the Salkum area since the late 1960s and is appalled that two different neighbors — armed with guns — caused and escalated a dispute that ended Shive’s life.

“This was the kind of place you wanted your kids to grow up — not anymore,” she said.

His friends said Shive was unarmed at the time of his death, and likely would not have attacked the neighbor if he did not have a gun pointed at him.

Wow, so he attacked the armed man who's porch he was on?

If someone pulls a gun on me I don't bum rush the guy I put hand up and try to defuse the issue. If someone had rushed me, while I was armed, after banging on my door I'd likely have done the same thing as the shooter.

davidmcbeth · May 12, 2014

Jo Anne Weiler, who held Shiver’s hand as he died, said she has lived in the Salkum area since the late 1960s and is appalled that two different neighbors — armed with guns — caused and escalated a dispute that ended Shive’s life.

Well, if it was the same neighbor, it would be suicide.

Me, I would have just wrote the guy a nice letter asking him not to pound on my door like that. It ain't neighborly.

Odd that Jo Anne did not rush up and try to defuse the situation...I wonder why? She's a bad neighbor, that's why!

golddigger14s · May 12, 2014

"He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.

Difdi · May 13, 2014

golddigger14s said:
"He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.

Standing on your own private property has different rules than standing on someone else's property or a public street corner.

Freedom1Man · May 13, 2014

Difdi said:
Standing on your own private property has different rules than standing on someone else's property or a public street corner.

Bingo.

davidmcbeth · May 13, 2014

golddigger14s said:
"He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.

And a Molotov cocktail thrown threw into your window?

If I felt threatened, my objective is to eliminate the threatening party. Hiding from the party does not necessarily eliminate the threat.

hhofent · May 13, 2014

golddigger14s said:
"He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.

It's his own yard. He loses the right to use it how/when he wants when some angry fellow comes around?

Or is the yard only kind of his, but the house, now that's really his, dang it.
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EMNofSeattle · May 14, 2014

golddigger14s said:
"He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.

?Why resist at all, if he enters your house just out the back door and be safe again......... Hell if you didn't even own a home you wouldn't have to defend it from victims of society.....

Seriously? You have a right to defend your domicile, on your terms, not the invaders

griz_64 · May 14, 2014

The autopsy is out now

http://www.lewiscountysirens.com/?p=25299

skidmark · May 14, 2014

griz_64 said:
The autopsy is out now

http://www.lewiscountysirens.com/?p=25299

So the takeaway from the autopsy is that the puny little .380 can be a one-shot stopper. Good to know.

Not knowing the relevant state law, I'm not going to get involved in the lack of actual debate on stand-your-ground vs escalation of combat. I'll just sit here on the sideline, munching my popcorn, waiting for some folks with actual facts and citations to come forward and present them.

stay safe.

EMNofSeattle · May 14, 2014

skidmark said:
So the takeaway from the autopsy is that the puny little .380 can be a one-shot stopper. Good to know.

Not knowing the relevant state law, I'm not going to get involved in the lack of actual debate on stand-your-ground vs escalation of combat. I'll just sit here on the sideline, munching my popcorn, waiting for some folks with actual facts and citations to come forward and present them.

stay safe.

Washington has perhaps one of the most defendant friendly self defense laws in the country.

Aggressive man on shooters property, yelling, accusing him of criminal acts, then lunging at him, shooter fired two shots to the front of aggressor, although witnesses claim agressor was shot in back.

Seems clear cut to my untrained thoughts. I vote self defense

griz_64 · May 14, 2014

I also vote self defense, and I know the guy that was shot. He is a very load and aggressive guy at times, and I'm sure he was half drunk at the time this all happened

hhofent · May 14, 2014

EMNofSeattle said:
Washington has perhaps one of the most defendant friendly self defense laws in the country.

Aggressive man on shooters property, yelling, accusing him of criminal acts, then lunging at him, shooter fired two shots to the front of aggressor, although witnesses claim agressor was shot in back.

Seems clear cut to my untrained thoughts. I vote self defense

Self defense, absolutely. For all the reasons listed above. Escalation/failure to try to run away should only apply when you can run home. this guys already at home, minding his own business. Where is he gonna run? Inside? Then when the guy comes in, to a hotel? Your front yard/porch isn't less of your property.

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ak56 · May 14, 2014

golddigger14s said:
"He said he felt threatened so he got a gun and went back outside to tell Shive again to leave."
OK, you feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside? If I felt threatened, and had the ability to get back inside I would. I would then call the police to let them handle the idiot. I would be armed if in case he made an attempt/successful entry into my house that would entail deadly force.

griz_64 said:
The autopsy is out now

http://www.lewiscountysirens.com/?p=25299

From the linked article:

CORRECTION: This news story has been updated to clarify the 56-year-old resident never opened the front door, and only left his house one time to meet up with Shive in his yard.

So apparently, he did not "feel threatened, go inside where it's safe, and then go back outside".

OC for ME · May 14, 2014

NavyLCDR said:
911 what is your emergency?
My neighbor is standing on my front porch yelling at me about his dog getting shot.
Sir, please stay inside with your door locked and we will get someone there as soon as possible.
OK, but I am holding my gun, just so everyone knows.
That's fine sir, just don't open the door or go outside until the police tell you that you can.
OK, no problem.

Would have been a lot simpler.

....uh, he's breaking in my door. Do I retreat to my bathroom and lock the door?

This will be interesting to see how it plays out

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