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Thread: NC homeowner uses AR15 against armed robber

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    NC homeowner uses AR15 against armed robber

    http://www.wral.com/homeowner-shoots...k-in/13638825/

    http://www.theblaze.com/stories/2014...wd-nightmares/

    Terrible home defense round though. He should get a 300AAC Blackout upper for that thing or at least load it with some frangible vmax rounds so it doesnt over penetrate.

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    Dude intrudes into a guy's home and gets shot.

    Sucks to be the dude.

    I would recommend a .308 AR10 ... because of its increased penetrating power. Some intruders may have body armor and you don't want that to be a factor.

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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Dude intrudes into a guy's home and gets shot.

    Sucks to be the dude.

    I would recommend a .308 AR10 ... because of its increased penetrating power. Some intruders may have body armor and you don't want that to be a factor.
    Hmmm, at 10 yards the 223 has more velocity and may actually penetrate armor better if that is your concern. 308 is much slower. We shoot steel all the time and it's surprising how an AR10 or AK will barely faze steel yet a little 556 round take chunks out. With my AR500 hardened steel targets, even the XM855 light armor penetrators dont faze it much but you can tell on regular steel where the small steel core goes past where the lead stopped but even the lead goes about 1/4-3/8" in and the steel core will usually penetrate completely.

    The only round that really damaged my AR500 targets is my ruger m77 26" 22-250 shooting 40 grain HPs. At 200 yards, it was taking BIG chunks out of the targets.

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    Thumbs down

    "He shot first, I shot second," he said. "He missed and I reckon I connected."

    "I guess I did the right thing," Haith said. "I just reacted the best way possible.



    Yeah, letting an intruder take a shot at you is the best course of action.

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    Terrible home defense round though. He should get a 300AAC Blackout upper for that thing or at least load it with some frangible vmax rounds so it doesnt over penetrate.
    .223 is a great home defense round. Starts tumbling when it hits the first set of drywall so it barely penetrates the second set at all, and likely gets fully stopped by the next drywall or the exterior of the house. 9mm penetrates far more in a typical home and is actually more danger to your neighbors. Blackout would actually be a bad idea. It will just tear through wall after wall, probably more dangerous than 9mm.

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    Last edited by arentol; 05-16-2014 at 10:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by arentol View Post
    .223 is a great home defense round. Starts tumbling when it hits the first set of drywall so it barely penetrates the second set at all, and likely gets fully stopped by the next drywall or the exterior of the house
    I'm going to have to check this out when my wife's out of town next month....
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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Good job! The home owner acted with a cool head and properly. Sux to be the dumb crook...
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by arentol View Post
    .223 is a great home defense round. Starts tumbling when it hits the first set of drywall so it barely penetrates the second set at all, and likely gets fully stopped by the next drywall or the exterior of the house. 9mm penetrates far more in a typical home and is actually more danger to your neighbors. Blackout would actually be a bad idea. It will just tear through wall after wall, probably more dangerous than 9mm.

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    Cite? Very curious. Ive been building pieces to test this at the range but curious if your seen it tested before.

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    The Box O' Truth - Ammo Penetration Testing

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Thank you. I'm in the process of building a small section of actual wall to shoot through and set up another section a preset distance behind.

    These boxs are cool but not really applicable to real life. No insulation in between, too close of distance, etc.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Thank you. I'm in the process of building a small section of actual wall to shoot through and set up another section a preset distance behind.

    These boxs are cool but not really applicable to real life. No insulation in between, too close of distance, etc.

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    I use empty 50 pound feed bags filled with manure. Most moderate ammo does not penetrate, most higher velocity ammo can picked up a few feet behind the bag, and that is with FMJ. If you hit your target center mass you don't need to worry about over penetration. Train with a small target at combat distances, hunt small game with a handgun. Use swinging small targets.

    If you can hit a running rabbit, you will have no problem putting a round center mass. Forget the silhouette targets, they really are too big to teach shot placement. I trained my wife with a gas airsoft point shooting. She can consistently hit a tin can at seven yards without using the sights. All she has to do is picture a tin can center mass to take out a spine.

    There is a reason that police have such poor ability to hit the mark. They do not train to hit the mark, they train to spray ammo. If a police officer cannot put ALL the rounds in a paper plate they should not be allowed to carry.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Thank you. I'm in the process of building a small section of actual wall to shoot through and set up another section a preset distance behind.

    These boxes are cool but not really applicable to real life. No insulation in between, too close of distance, etc.
    I'm sure "normals" vary throughout the country, but it's very common here that interior walls have no insulation and the most a bullet will see between two occupied rooms is two pieces of 1/2" drywall, and a few layers of paint.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    I use empty 50 pound feed bags filled with manure. Most moderate ammo does not penetrate, most higher velocity ammo can picked up a few feet behind the bag, and that is with FMJ. If you hit your target center mass you don't need to worry about over penetration. Train with a small target at combat distances, hunt small game with a handgun. Use swinging small targets.

    If you can hit a running rabbit, you will have no problem putting a round center mass. Forget the silhouette targets, they really are too big to teach shot placement. I trained my wife with a gas airsoft point shooting. She can consistently hit a tin can at seven yards without using the sights. All she has to do is picture a tin can center mass to take out a spine.

    There is a reason that police have such poor ability to hit the mark. They do not train to hit the mark, they train to spray ammo. If a police officer cannot put ALL the rounds in a paper plate they should not be allowed to carry.
    So, when you say that you are "shooting the s..t", you actually are! Sorry, couldn't pass that one up.

    Actually, that is not a bad idea. Question is are you using fresh or dried? Not trying to be a smart aleck, but whether or not it is fresh would, to me, make a difference in the amount of penetration.

    I also seem to remember someone talking about using mud for similar purposes.
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    Regular Member Kopis's Avatar
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    below the mason dixon line, most interior walls dont have any insulation and the exteriors are just brick facades with minimum insulation. A 223 at close range would likely go through several layers of drywall and the brick. I may test that myself in the next few weekends.

    Why would a subsonic blackout be a bad idea? it is a much larger/slower moving bullet so it would not penetrate foreign objects as much as a high velocity 223.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    So, when you say that you are "shooting the s..t", you actually are! Sorry, couldn't pass that one up.

    Actually, that is not a bad idea. Question is are you using fresh or dried? Not trying to be a smart aleck, but whether or not it is fresh would, to me, make a difference in the amount of penetration.

    I also seem to remember someone talking about using mud for similar purposes.
    Late reply, I somehow missed your response. Not fresh, but not dried, probable moisture content is probably about 10%. Gelatin is poor choice, IMO, a person can easily penetrate it with a finger. Damp mud or manure in a bag will have the same reaction to punching, pushing and probably resistance to a bullet. The only thing better would be a large pig, wild boars are considerable tougher than humans. A hog raised for meat would most likely mimic a person shot.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member SFCRetired's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Late reply, I somehow missed your response. Not fresh, but not dried, probable moisture content is probably about 10%. Gelatin is poor choice, IMO, a person can easily penetrate it with a finger. Damp mud or manure in a bag will have the same reaction to punching, pushing and probably resistance to a bullet. The only thing better would be a large pig, wild boars are considerable tougher than humans. A hog raised for meat would most likely mimic a person shot.
    Have to agree with you on the gelatin. You mention mud; I wonder how clay would react. It is a bit denser than just plain mud. Any pig would give you a fair indication of what your load would do in a defensive situation.

    Being the old soldier that I am, I am not too fond of the AR platform in any caliber. That is just me and, yes, there is a long story behind it. But it's like OC vs CC; if it works for you, great!
    "Happiness is a warm shotgun!!"
    "I am neither a pessimist nor a cynic. I am, rather, a realist."
    "The most dangerous things I've ever encountered were a Second Lieutenant with a map and a compass and a Private who was bored and had time on his hands."

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    Quote Originally Posted by SFCRetired View Post
    Have to agree with you on the gelatin. You mention mud; I wonder how clay would react. It is a bit denser than just plain mud. Any pig would give you a fair indication of what your load would do in a defensive situation.

    Being the old soldier that I am, I am not too fond of the AR platform in any caliber. That is just me and, yes, there is a long story behind it. But it's like OC vs CC; if it works for you, great!
    All those have been tired and proved to be inferior to 10 percent gelatin there is a reason it has become the testing standard.

    Plain old water is the next best but that well show a bit more expansion then gelatin. As far as game animals go the whitetail is most likely the closest.

    Personally I shot close to a couple hundred deer, seen a few hundred more shot, dozens of hogs, some bears and thousands of smaller critters with every thing from 22lr to 458 DGRs.

    I been interested in bullet performance for over 50 years and tested them in various medias. I have recover hundreds of bullets from animals and other testing media.

    I'll take gelatin and water for the best testing results.

    Neither of them can be a true indication of how a bullet well perform on a live animal at any one time just because of the many variables involved , shot placement, distance velocity and body structure hit.

    Animals are a very complex structure that are very hard to duplicate in a non living testing media.

    One can shoot the Sh-t if they want.

    But for bullet testing I prefer more reliable medias.

    I'll leave shooting the Sh-t for story time.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 06-01-2014 at 07:54 AM.
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