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Thread: Dept of Agriculture Orders Submachine Guns with 30 Round Magazines

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    Dept of Agriculture Orders Submachine Guns with 30 Round Magazines

    "A May 7th solicitation by the U.S. Department of Agriculture seeks "the commercial acquisition of submachine guns [in] .40 Cal. S&W." According to the solicitation, the Dept. of Agriculture wants the guns to have an "ambidextrous safety, semiautomatic or 2 round [bursts] trigger group, Tritium night sights front and rear, rails for attachment of flashlight (front under fore group) and scope (top rear), stock collapsible or folding," and a "30 rd. capacity" magazine. They also want the submachine guns to have a "sling," be "lightweight," and have an "oversized trigger guard for gloved operation."

    https://www.fbo.gov/index?s=opportun...=core&_cview=0

    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Governm...ound-Magazines
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    "The Rise of the Warrior Cop"

    How does the department of AGRICULTURE justify having automatic weapons?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    "The Rise of the Warrior Cop"

    How does the department of AGRICULTURE justify having automatic weapons?
    Wants to get in on some of that Bundy/BLM action. Ain't no such thing as bad publicity.
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    the cows are getting restless...

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    "The Rise of the Warrior Cop"

    How does the department of AGRICULTURE justify having automatic weapons?
    Mutant corn?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Mutant corn?
    All corn (maize) is GMO mutant - from Teosinte.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    "The Rise of the Warrior Cop"

    How does the department of AGRICULTURE justify having automatic weapons?
    Maybe they are getting scared of the sheep?

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    Take this you killer tomatoes ! pew pew pew

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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    What's that leave in the way of unarmed government agencies... the FDA Egg Enforcement Agency? Pax...
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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    "The Rise of the Warrior Cop"

    How does the department of AGRICULTURE justify having automatic weapons?
    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    Maybe they are getting scared of the sheep?
    The sheep are fine, the sheep are docile.
    I would imagine it's because they've been having trouble with rattlesnakes lately...
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 05-16-2014 at 06:18 AM.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rusty Young Man View Post
    The sheep are fine, the sheep are docile.
    I would imagine it's because they've been having trouble with rattlesnakes lately...
    More like garden snakes.

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    Listen to the sheepish-dog yip and whine when the 'garden-snakes' strike and bite without first rattling.
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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Listen to the sheepish-dog yip and whine when the 'garden-snakes' strike and bite without first rattling.
    LOL I like that. Sheepish dog.

    Maybe you have mutant garden snakes where your from, but around here they don't "strike" anything. They just slither away like.... well snakes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    More like garden snakes.

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    Garden snakes serve useful purpose, LAC serve a useful purpose, most Feds do not. If as you say more like garden snakes, why do you whimper so much about armed resistance?
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by USDA
    ... 2 round [bursts] trigger group...
    Anything qualify besides the HK UMP40?
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Anything qualify besides the HK UMP40?
    Wasn't even aware the UMP was 2 rd burst. To be honest that's the first I've heard of it from any firearm.

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    AN-94 Nikonov mechanism fires second shot before first recoil. VIDEO

    AN-94 (Russian: 5,45-мм автомат Никонова обр. 1994 г. / АН-94 «Абака́н», GRAU designation 6P33) is an advanced assault rifle of Russian origin. The initials stand for Avtomat Nikonova model of 1994, after its chief designer Gennadiy Nikonov who previously worked on the Nikonov machine gun.

    The stated great advantage of the AN-94 system is its ability to delay the recoil force until the fired round/s have left the barrel. This, it is claimed, enables more 'hits' on target under the most adverse combat conditions.

    The AN-94 offers a unique two-shot burst function at a stated 1800 rounds per minute rate of fire. The Nikonov mechanism fires the second shot in the burst quickly enough to allow it to escape before the recoil of the first shot is felt, thus potentially allowing the two shots to hit extremely close together, for example to aid in piercing body armor.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AN-94

    VIDEO http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tfw4KIge_y0 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r4e4QcbEZP8
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-16-2014 at 02:29 PM.
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    Apparently, whoever made this solicitation has no understanding of firearms. First they say they want "commerical acquisition of submachine guns,", and immediately follow that up with the phrase "semi-automatic or 2 shot bursts". A "sub-machine gun" is NOT truly "semi-automatic" in that it is capable of full-automatic fire, and burst-fire is generally 3 shots. Nor is a gun capable of firing bursts semi-automatic. If they don't know the differences, they should not be able to even HOLD a sub-machine gun! Beside which, they misspelled commercial, and did not hyphenate sub-machine gun. Perhaps their clerical staff shouldn't be allowed to type, either. Pax...
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    I took their description to mean the trigger group should be capable of semi-automatic fire or 2-shot burst fire. LOTS of people in the submachine gun world don't hyphenate it. I shoot with them every month, too.

    A 2-shot burst is still a submachine gun, and they are on the market, as noted, with a distinct advantage over 3-shot bursts. I would prefer it myself.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-16-2014 at 05:05 PM. Reason: spelling
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    A 2-shot burst is still a submachine gun, and they are on the market, as noted, with a distinct advantage over 3-shot bursts. I would prefer it myself.
    The point I was making with the 2-shot burst, is that function also removes it from the "semi-automatic" category. Regarding the "submachine gun", there are still correct and incorrect ways to use the English language. You would expect that somebody in each government agency would be familiar with the English language. Or, did they leave spelling and grammar checkers off their "low-bid" program? Pax...

    (P.S. My eldest son is one of those thousands of people who has no understanding of the concept of punctuation. He sends 200-word emails with NO punctuation whatsoever.)
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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    The point I was making with the 2-shot burst, is that function also removes it from the "semi-automatic" category. Regarding the "submachine gun", there are still correct and incorrect ways to use the English language. You would expect that somebody in each government agency would be familiar with the English language. Or, did they leave spelling and grammar checkers off their "low-bid" program? ...
    Then you missed my point, contained in the sentence you left out when you quoted me. They are asking for a trigger group with two separate settings, one for semi-automatic, and one for burst. This is EXTREMELY COMMON.

    If you must get pedantic, and accept Webster, then the correct word is not hyphenated and with a space: "submachine gun," which is exactly what they used.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/submachinegun

    I think this is a non-issue. Focus on why they want them.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-16-2014 at 05:03 PM.
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    Regular Member Gil223's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MAC702 View Post
    Then you missed my point, contained in the sentence you left out when you quoted me. They are asking for a trigger group with two separate settings, one for semi-automatic, and one for burst. This is EXTREMELY COMMON.

    If you must get pedantic, and accept Webster, then the correct word is not hyphenated and with a space: "submachine gun," which is exactly what they used.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/submachinegun

    I think this is a non-issue. Focus on why they want them.
    I believe 2 shot burst fire is uncommon in handgun caliber long arms (which is what they have requested, unspecified barrel length & quantity), and is infrequently found in hand-held firearms. Considering that the vast majority of burst capable select-fire firearms are owned by various country's military units, 3 shot bursts are the most common (yes, the M4 is 2-shot burst capable, but it is not produced in a handgun caliber). (Okay... I will no longer assume that Microsoft's spell checker is correct, and I shall hereafter refer to Webster when there's any doubt in my mind.) Pax...
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Take this you killer tomatoes ! pew pew pew
    Ahem. It's "pew pew". Lol

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Gil223 View Post
    I believe 2 shot burst fire is uncommon...
    You're mixing my posts. My comment about commonality was solely about trigger groups that have semi-automatic AND burst options, independent of how many were in the burst. We're on the same side, I think. They worded it weirdly, but I still took it to mean a selective-fire weapon with both.

    I agree that 2-round is uncommon. I also think it's better.
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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