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Thread: OC question

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    OC question

    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    If it's visible to common observation, it's OC. If you have to lift or move something to see it, it's CC.

    Hope that answers your question.

    stay safe.
    in Michigan the way he is carrying is still considered concealed carry. The holster has to be on the outside of the pants for it not to be concealed carry. The damn laws are so dumb.

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    in Michigan the way he is carrying is still considered concealed carry. The holster has to be on the outside of the pants for it not to be concealed carry. The damn laws are so dumb.
    I'd like to see your cite for that - believe you are very mistaken.

    BTW - I moved your post from another thread where it became off-topic when that thread was moved to Maine.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-16-2014 at 01:15 AM.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I'd like to see your cite for that - believe you are very mistaken.

    BTW - I moved your post from another thread where it became off-topic when that thread was moved to Maine.
    I know of at least one non-appellate level case where someone carried IWB with shirt tucked in (all the way round) behind the firearm that was successfully convicted of CCW. They should have appealed but didn't.

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    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    I believe the MI appellate courts have upheld that complete invisibility is not required to be automatically considered concealed. If the inverse is true, then partial visibility should be considered OC. But the "casual observer"rule applies, and I can see how OC in an IWB could be easily missed in some circumstances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    I believe the MI appellate courts have upheld that complete invisibility is not required to be automatically considered concealed. If the inverse is true, then partial visibility should be considered OC. But the "casual observer"rule applies, and I can see how OC in an IWB could be easily missed in some circumstances.

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    Although I've seen OC in a drop leg missed in some circumstances too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    I'd like to see your cite for that - believe you are very mistaken.

    BTW - I moved your post from another thread where it became off-topic when that thread was moved to Maine.

    You can call Terry Johnson. He is the lawyer that told me this. Or you can leave your cpl at home and take your chances.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    You can call Terry Johnson. He is the lawyer that told me this. Or you can leave your cpl at home and take your chances.
    As a CPL holder, I don't think the outcome would be the same. Michigan requires an individual to possess both on his or her person an OP's/state ID and CPL while carrying a concealed pistol, on foot or carrying in a vehicle. If the individual does not possess the CPL at the time of the detainment/pistol seizure/arrest/charge of CCW, IMO, the CPL holder has MCL 28.425f to fall back on and will likely have the charge dismissed. The responding officer(s) will run the individuals OP's and confirm or deny a valid CPL. If the individual has a valid CPL, he or she will have up to 45 days to show proof of his or her CPL to the agency.

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    shame cuz without a cite, then your entire conversation is hyperbole and without merit except for the hearsay.
    and to think i was looking forward to learning something about partial covered carry...

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-16-2014 at 06:49 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    shame cuz without a cite, then your entire conversation is hyperbole and without merit except for the hearsay.
    and to think i was looking forward to learning something about partial covered carry...

    ipse
    Before you go slamming other posters' let’s take a look at your post. First, all sentences start with a capital letter. Second, your first sentence looks more like a fragment to me. Third the usage of CUZ is not a word. Forth when referring to yourself and using the letter I, it needs to be capitalized. I’m not trying to be harsh, I just hate it when people slam others and their backyard is not clean either.
    Last edited by budlight; 05-16-2014 at 07:17 PM.

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    Plus I have no idea how this became it's own thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Before you go slamming other posters' lets take a look at your post. First, all sentences start with a capital letter. Second, your first sentence looks more like a fragment to me. Third the usage of CUZ is not a word. Forth when referring to yourself and using the letter I, it needs to be capitalized. Im not trying to be harsh, I just hate it when people slam others and their backyard is not clean either.
    He was not slamming, providing a cite is a OCDO RULE, spelling, capitalization, use of southern slang words are not. We can spull, use slang, and have beer cans in our backyard. It does NOT violate forum rules. You should read the rules of the site before biting your shoe, try salt it might taste better.
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    Carrying concealed weapons
    Right out of the MSP legal update 86

    Sure your cpl offers you some protections , but do not try and oc with an iwb while in a pfz.
    It is one of those grey areas that I would not attempt, because there is a lot of stuff people do not casually observe that they should.
    I mean hell the police harass some people openly carrying with an owb holster.

    MCL 750.227 also makes it a felony for a person
    to carry a concealed pistol on or about his or her
    person unless the person is exempt under MCL
    750.231 or MCL 750.231a. Complete invisibility
    is not required.
    The carrying of a pistol in a
    holster or belt outside the clothing is not carrying
    a concealed weapon. Carrying a pistol under a
    coat is carrying a concealed weapon. Op. Atty.
    Gen. 1945, O-3158. According to the Court of
    Appeals in People v. Reynolds, a weapon is
    concealed if it is not observed by those casually
    observing the suspect as people do in the
    ordinary course and usual associations of life.
    38 Mich App. 159 (1970).
    Last edited by wizzi01; 05-16-2014 at 08:16 PM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    Carrying concealed weapons
    Right out of the MSP legal update 86

    Sure your cpl offers you some protections , but do not try and oc with an iwb while in a pfz.
    It is one of those grey areas that I would not attempt, because there is a lot of stuff people do not casually observe that they should.

    MCL 750.227 also makes it a felony for a person
    to carry a concealed pistol on or about his or her
    person unless the person is exempt under MCL
    750.231 or MCL 750.231a. Complete invisibility
    is not required.
    The carrying of a pistol in a
    holster or belt outside the clothing is not carrying
    a concealed weapon. Carrying a pistol under a
    coat is carrying a concealed weapon. Op. Atty.
    Gen. 1945, O-3158. According to the Court of
    Appeals in People v. Reynolds, a weapon is
    concealed if it is not observed by those casually
    observing the suspect as people do in the
    ordinary course and usual associations of life.
    38 Mich App. 159 (1970).
    Note only does the above cite contradict itself, it does not say carrying in the waistband is illegal. It state that carry outside the belt is not illegal, and then goes on to say cover with a coat outside the belt is illegal. But nowhere does it say that IWB is illegal. I always take legislation as it is written. Unless there are clear court cases to point it one direction, it means what it says. And it does not say IWB is illegal, it does say carry under a coat is illegal, even with a belt holster outside the waist band. A weapon worn in a belt holster on the left side when viewed form the right, by this case would be concealed. A crossdraw rig from the rear would be concealed. The ruling is a poor ruling, the justices should have given a clear understanding instead of a vague line of BS.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    Plus I have no idea how this became it's own thread.
    Read post #2
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wizzi01 View Post
    Carrying concealed weapons
    Right out of the MSP legal update 86

    Sure your cpl offers you some protections , but do not try and oc with an iwb while in a pfz.
    It is one of those grey areas that I would not attempt, because there is a lot of stuff people do not casually observe that they should.
    I mean hell the police harass some people openly carrying with an owb holster.

    MCL 750.227 also makes it a felony for a person
    to carry a concealed pistol on or about his or her
    person unless the person is exempt under MCL
    750.231 or MCL 750.231a. Complete invisibility
    is not required.
    The carrying of a pistol in a
    holster or belt outside the clothing is not carrying
    a concealed weapon. Carrying a pistol under a
    coat is carrying a concealed weapon. Op. Atty.
    Gen. 1945, O-3158. According to the Court of
    Appeals in People v. Reynolds, a weapon is
    concealed if it is not observed by those casually
    observing the suspect as people do in the
    ordinary course and usual associations of life.
    38 Mich App. 159 (1970).
    Bam. Thanks for the cite. I was curious about it to. Do you have any more details to that case to give it context?

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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    Before you go slamming other posters' let’s take a look at your post. First, all sentences start with a capital letter. Second, your first sentence looks more like a fragment to me. Third the usage of CUZ is not a word. Forth when referring to yourself and using the letter I, it needs to be capitalized. I’m not trying to be harsh, I just hate it when people slam others and their backyard is not clean either.
    hallelujah, the forum's grammar polizei are here, alive, and well protecting the mental well being of the forum membership's readers.

    throw in the fact you must be a rookie grammar polizei as my first sentence happens to have a verb and direct object, therefore qualifies as a sentence.

    cuz, conjunction Informal. because. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cuz

    now, rookie budlight, let's look at what you posted ~ highlighted above...

    posters' with an apostrophe ~ What is possessive with the word poster?

    Forth ~ sure you don't mean fourth in lieu of the word you used?

    budlight, as a suggestion for your future grammar polizei reports... when you feel the need to cast the first grammar stone at mine or anybody's front windows, you might wish to ensure your own patio window is smudge free!

    by the way where is the cite i asked about...oh and this is IAW forum policy. oh thanks wizz

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-16-2014 at 10:43 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
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    Oh, for Pete's sake, boys, there's no need to get pissy. I think slacker grammar is atrocious too, but behaving like the Real Housewives of OCDO is worse. Cut it out, it makes us look bad.

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    Grammer Police: To correct and serve.

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    Quote Originally Posted by hhofent View Post
    Grammer Police: To correct and serve.

    Sent from my SCH-R680 using Tapatalk 2
    Didja ever notice that the GP never prevent garmmer crime? They just show up with their chalk, tape and cameras to preserve the evidence.

    All of that aside, put your best foot forward as it is your and our public image and yes that is important.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Didja ever notice that the GP never prevent garmmer crime? They just show up with their chalk, tape and cameras to preserve the evidence.

    All of that aside, put your best foot forward as it is your and our public image and yes that is important.
    Most times I have noticed that the GP are people with hurt feelings, instead of addressing the issue, they feel they must strike a blow for their cause anyway possible. It is immature.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    Oh, for Pete's sake, boys, there's no need to get pissy. I think slacker grammar is atrocious too, but behaving like the Real Housewives of OCDO is worse. Cut it out, it makes us look bad.

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    naw'llll i aint wone of petes boys...they life down the hollarrrr...and how'd ya now momma's name was prissy? u kin?

    you fine missy atrocious wright purdy too...

    note to grape, at least it is grammar discussed instead of those who get stuck on stupid making comments about which way is fastest on the draw, etc.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-17-2014 at 12:34 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    --snipped--

    note to grape, at least it is grammar discussed instead of those who get stuck on stupid making comments about which way is fastest on the draw, etc.
    There are will always be some crayons that are not the sharpest in any box.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training. Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    hallelujah, the forum's grammar polizei are here, alive, and well protecting the mental well being of the forum membership's readers.

    throw in the fact you must be a rookie grammar polizei as my first sentence happens to have a verb and direct object, therefore qualifies as a sentence.

    cuz, conjunction Informal. because. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cuz

    now, rookie budlight, let's look at what you posted ~ highlighted above...

    posters' with an apostrophe ~ What is possessive with the word poster?

    Forth ~ sure you don't mean fourth in lieu of the word you used?

    budlight, as a suggestion for your future grammar polizei reports... when you feel the need to cast the first grammar stone at mine or anybody's front windows, you might wish to ensure your own patio window is smudge free!

    by the way where is the cite i asked about...oh and this is IAW forum policy. oh thanks wizz

    ipse
    Once again, you dont even know how to capitalize at the beginning of a sentence. Are you for real?? You must be an elementary school drop out..that happens in Red Neck Territory, along with other things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    hallelujah, the forum's grammar polizei are here, alive, and well protecting the mental well being of the forum membership's readers.

    throw in the fact you must be a rookie grammar polizei as my first sentence happens to have a verb and direct object, therefore qualifies as a sentence.

    cuz, conjunction Informal. because. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/cuz

    now, rookie budlight, let's look at what you posted ~ highlighted above...

    posters' with an apostrophe ~ What is possessive with the word poster?

    Forth ~ sure you don't mean fourth in lieu of the word you used?

    budlight, as a suggestion for your future grammar polizei reports... when you feel the need to cast the first grammar stone at mine or anybody's front windows, you might wish to ensure your own patio window is smudge free!

    by the way where is the cite i asked about...oh and this is IAW forum policy. oh thanks wizz

    ipse
    By the way, I didn't cast the first stone, you did! I didn't call anyone out, you did!

  25. #25
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by budlight View Post
    By the way, I didn't cast the first stone, you did! I didn't call anyone out, you did!
    I REPEAT! Solus called him out for avoiding, refusing to provide a cite, A FORUM RULE! You whimpered about issues that are NOT forum rules. Now you are trying to put off YOUR lack of comprehension of site policy, or outright ignorance on another member.

    Doo Yoooo git da gist of datt?
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 05-17-2014 at 02:14 PM.
    It is well that war is so terrible otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
    President Donald Trump

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