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Thread: Moving into the state

  1. #1
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Moving into the state

    Well I've been around for awhile but finally I now know when and where I will be moving to. La Crosse. I've read a fair bit about WI as well as other states but would it would help to know who is local and how active they are. My understanding is WI is


    WI is a stop and I.D state (looking for statutes to cite to demand probable cause for such a request)

    No licence is required to Open Carry but is for concealed (There are places off limits but i'm not sure if there is a difference between the places off limits to a licence holder and one who is)

    Also need to know a local place to get both a WI licence as well as AZ and UT for maximum coverage and last but not least I will be living quite close to UW-L and this i'm assuming is a gun free zone. (1000 yards is it?) Rather avoid any more trouble than I know very well I will get until I have to. Until i'm versed enough in the local law to do a kokesh on any troublemakers that is.


    These next things are OT so optional at least on here but i'd like to start a local Copblock as well as get hold of the local Tea party and any related groups
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Don't need any licenses. 2A should be enough. That's all you need to say. Am I being detained?? And 2a is all I need!

    You'll be fine. Good luck.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Don't need any licenses. 2A should be enough. That's all you need to say. Am I being detained?? And 2a is all I need!

    You'll be fine. Good luck.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

    Thats the way it should be but it's a little more complicated due to the fact that there are many many infringements to the 2nd Amendment plus forum policy is to abide by them and tactically deal with them. Give me credit for trying to toe the line even when i rather strongly disagree ok? :P

    One more thing I remembered. What about the public transport system? I checked the website and couldn't find anything about it and I know better than to phone and ask.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Wisconsin Department of Justice Concealed Carry page

    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...oncealed-carry
    See the link URL's on the page for

    Training Requirements
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...g-requirements

    Training Syllabus
    http://www.doj.state.wi.us/dles/cib/...rry/curriculum

    Training should be free as no liability is assumed by the trainer for errors. Military training may suffice.
    The details are in Chapter 175 Miscellaneous Police Provisions, Subchapter 175.60 License to carry a concealed weapon.
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/doc.../ch.%20175.pdf
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    968.24  Temporary questioning without arrest.

    968.24  Temporary questioning without arrest.
    After having identified himself or herself as a law enforcement officer, a law enforcement officer may stop a person in a public place for a reasonable period of time when the officer reasonably suspects that such person is committing, is about to commit or has committed a crime, and may demand the name and address of the person and an explanation of the person's conduct. Such detention and temporary questioning shall be conducted in the vicinity where the person was stopped.
    This demand is satisfied orally. An arrest is required to seize identification documents.

    Drivers license may be seized incident to a traffic stop. (Chapter 343 Operators licenses)

    345.22 Authority to arrest without a warrant. A person may be arrested without a warrant for the violation of a traffic regulation if the traffic officer has reasonable grounds to believe that the person is violating or has violated a traffic regulation.
    Wisconsin's drivers license will be RealID compliant by 2017. I keep mine in the packet with registration receipt and insurance certificate. I carry my passport card when identification must be documented. Wisconsin is largely within the ACLU-CBP 100 mile Constitution-free Zone.

    Wisconsin Statutes Table of Contents
    https://docs.legis.wisconsin.gov/statutes/prefaces/toc
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-18-2014 at 06:08 PM.
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    Foreknowledge is an element of the crims of possession in a school zone.

    Foreknowledge (or reasonable cause to believe) is an element of the crime of possession in a school zone.

    948.605  Gun-free school zones.
    [ ... ]
    (2) Possession of firearm in school zone.
    (a) Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is in or on the grounds of a school is guilty of a Class I felony. Any individual who knowingly possesses a firearm at a place that the individual knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is within 1,000 feet of the grounds of a school is subject to a Class B forfeiture.
    Further, a university campus is not a school zone for the purposes of 948.605.
    "School" means a public school, parochial or private school, or tribal school, as defined in s. 115.001 (15m), which provides an educational program for one or more grades between grades 1 and 12 and which is commonly known as an elementary school, middle school, junior high school, senior high school, or high school.
    Generally, private property may be posted against gun carry and the trustees probably have the authority to do so.
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    Wisconsin has an active state Constitution Party and is home to the John Birch Society. Wisconsin is largely a red-state with two unfortunate democrat abscesses in Milwaukee and Madison.

    The TEA Party is fractionated. Here's La Crosse http://www.lacrosseteaparty.com/
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    941.235 and 941.237 cover the prohibitions of unlicensed carry. The prohibitions of licensed carry are covered in the aforementioned 175.60.

    The prohibition against intoxicated use of a weapon is separate.
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Foreknowledge (or reasonable cause to believe) is an element of the crime of possession in a school zone.



    Further, a university campus is not a school zone for the purposes of 948.605.


    Generally, private property may be posted against gun carry and the trustees probably have the authority to do so.
    Perfect. I wasnt aware a University was excluded. While Private property may well be posted it will of course result in an immediate boycott, adding to DNP establishments on websites as well as a public post on social networks calling them out for it, possibly also promoted for maximum impact

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Wisconsin has an active state Constitution Party and is home to the John Birch Society. Wisconsin is largely a red-state with two unfortunate democrat abscesses in Milwaukee and Madison.

    The TEA Party is fractionated. Here's La Crosse http://www.lacrosseteaparty.com/
    I had forgotten about the Constitution Party. I shall have to find the nearest branch. Somehow the John Birch Society escaped me but i'll research them. I won't have a drivers licence save for the UK equivalent of a permit and will be relying on the bus system which is why I asked about them. I am told La Crosse is a libtard area and has a couple of dumbocrat senators in the region. Really have a lot of catching up to do.

    Nightmare I appreciate the official legal links and will need them but for now I think the most helpful is the bullet points. The basic facts then go into the details once I know those.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    La Crosse Municipal Ordinances, Title VII Offenses Endangering Public Safety, Peace,

    I didn't notice your interest in public transportation (Municipal Transit Utility - MTU) until late, for avoiding your interlocutor. I did notice this:

    CARRYING DANGEROUS WEAPONS PROHIBITED.
    It is unlawful for any person, other than a policeman or other officer authorized to maintain the peace and to serve process, persons maintaining a license or permit from the Wisconsin Department of Regulation and Licensing, pursuant to sec. 440.26, Wis. Stats., and those persons maintaining a guard permit issued by the City Police Department upon compliance with certain minimum State proficiency standards provided for in Wisconsin Administrative Code, RL 3.41, to carry or wear any pistol, slingshot, knuckles, bowie or switchblade knife, dirk or other dangerous weapon, provided that such persons issued a guard permit by the City Police Department or any security personnel shall not remove any weapons used in their employment from the place of employment after hours of employment. In all cases of conviction hereunder, any and all dangerous weapons found on the person of the convicted shall be confiscated and become the property of the City and may be destroyed by order of the court.
    (Am. Ord. 2645 - 8/14/80)
    This municipal ordinance is preempted by Wisconsin Stats. § 66.0409 but the municipal cops probably don't know that. You may beat their rap (extra-legal charges) but you will not beat their ride (extra-legal harassment, often in the backseat of the cop car).

    After dawdling at the La Crosse municipal website for a few minutes, I found no clear prohibition of weapons on the MTU. As above, I'll bet their cops don't know that.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-19-2014 at 08:04 AM.
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    If you haven't already gotten a PM, see this local link

    http://forum.opencarry.org/forums/sh...ou-should-know

    Be careful, these people are in it to make money.

    Thread statistics ATM 150 views of our dialogue. Bwahahaha!
    Last edited by Nightmare; 05-19-2014 at 09:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    I now know when and where I will be moving to. La Crosse.
    Welcome to WI (when you get here).
    since gov walker and the republicans took over state govt, we have turned 180* and have been going in a very positive, very conservative direction of governance.

    if you know of anyone else that is responsible, adult, conservative, not a govt sponge, etc. please tell them also about wisconsin.
    the more people like this we have here, the better our state will be.

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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian
    Well I've been around for awhile but finally I now know when and where I will be moving to. La Crosse.
    Welcome to WI, in advance.
    I sent you a PM with some information, including a recommendation of who to contact for a UT class.

    Here's where you can search WI statutes by number or keyword.
    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/RSB/STATS.HTML

    Generally, the 900s are criminal code.
    175.60 is the ccl scheme.
    941.23 is the CCW statute.
    941.237 covers being armed in a "tavern" (bar or restaurant serving alcohol for on-site consumption). Basically, if you're carrying concealed you can't drink alcohol at a tavern. Nowhere are you allowed to be "materially impaired" (by alcohol or other drugs) while in possession of a firearm. The only bright-line definition for that is 0.08% BAC.
    941.20 is titled "Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon", and covers being materially impaired while in possession of a firearm, as well as normal things like pointing a gun at someone who isn't threatening you.
    939.48 is our self-defense statute, which includes Castle Doctrine. You're allowed to defend a third party.
    946.41 is the obstruction statute. Remaining silent is not obstruction.
    No law allows officers to arrest for obstruction on a person's refusal to give his or her name.
    Mere silence is insufficient to constitute obstruction.
    Henes v. Morrissey, 1995
    WI is a stop and I.D state (looking for statutes to cite to demand probable cause for such a request)
    See 968.24, titled temporary questioning without arrest.
    An officer first must reasonably believe that you are/have/will shortly be committing a crime.
    Then they're allowed to demand your name, address, and an explanation of your conduct.
    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/968/24

    175.60(2)(g) says that if you're carrying concealed off your own property (home or business or land), or if you're carrying openly someplace where only a licensee can legally carry (on public property within 1000' of the edge of a school property, or in a taxpayer owned building), then an officer can demand to see your carry & driver's licenses, and you must show them.

    No licence is required to Open Carry but is for concealed (There are places off limits but i'm not sure if there is a difference between the places off limits to a licence holder and one who is)
    As I mentioned above, if you're armed in a school zone or a taxpayer-owned building you're required to have a license, open or concealed.
    Otherwise OC does not require a license.
    There is some disagreement (among citizens, cops, & district attorneys) as to whether OC in a car is still cc. There's old case law saying it is, but the laws about carry & transport have changed substantially since then. 167.31 is the transport statute.
    You can carry concealed on your property or in your business (one you own) without a license.

    I will be living quite close to UW-L and this i'm assuming is a gun free zone.
    No, that's a university. See 948.605 for the "gun-free" school zone law. It only applies to grades 1-12.
    You cannot be armed on school grounds, even in your own car, unless you meet one of the exceptions.
    For those, it refers to 18USC922(q)(2)(b), which you can find here http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
    Note that one of those exceptions is having the gun unloaded & encased. Local LEO might not know the law very well, so if you use that part to your advantage, I'd keep it to yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian
    What about the public transport system? I checked the website and couldn't find anything about it and I know better than to phone and ask.
    There is no state law prohibiting lawfully-armed citizens from public transport, so thanks to preemption (see 66.0409) there can be no local law in force.
    Madison thinks it has a ban on armed people in buses, and they're the defendants in a lawsuit brought by Wisconsin Carry because of it.
    Quote Originally Posted by MLK, Jr
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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie
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    Quote Originally Posted by Proverbs 27:12
    A prudent person foresees the danger ahead and takes precautions.
    The simpleton goes blindly on and suffers the consequences.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention, 943.13 is the trespass statute. Any place (including a taxpayer-owned building) is allowed to post signs prohibiting people from entering while armed with firearms.

    It covers things like how big a sign has to be (at least 5x7"),
    where it has to be (near every entrance),
    how it has to be (reasonably likely to come to the attention of someone entering),
    and what the penalty is for carrying past a sign that you've seen (a ticket of up to $1000).

    For explanation of forbidden acts, & their penalties:
    939.12 Crime defined
    939.50 Classification of felonies
    939.51 Classification of misdemeanors
    939.52 Classification of forfeitures
    939.60 Felony and misdemeanor defined
    939.61 Penalty when none expressed

    If you commit a crime (something for which the potential penalty includes jail or prison) with a gun, the gun is seized & destroyed by the state. There's also a penalty enhancer.


    On a different note, there is no knife preemption, so localities can have laws very different from state law.
    Switchblades are illegal, period. Not even allowed in your home. IIRC, it's a felony to possess one.
    Pepper spray is legal.

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    Having a blade that opens with a movement.

    And the statutory definition of switchblade is interesting.

    941.24  Possession of switchblade knife.
    (1) Whoever manufactures, sells or offers to sell, transports, purchases, possesses or goes armed with any knife having a blade which opens by pressing a button, spring or other device in the handle or by gravity or by a thrust or movement is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

    Apparently my forty-five year old TL-29 electrician's knife is a switchblade. My CRKT Carson Design M16-01Z too.
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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Welcome to WI, in advance.
    I sent you a PM with some information, including a recommendation of who to contact for a UT class.
    Thank you. I was on the cell so going through it all now


    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    There is no state law prohibiting lawfully-armed citizens from public transport, so thanks to preemption (see 66.0409) there can be no local law in force.
    Madison thinks it has a ban on armed people in buses, and they're the defendants in a lawsuit brought by Wisconsin Carry because of it.

    Forgot to mention, 943.13 is the trespass statute. Any place (including a taxpayer-owned building) is allowed to post signs prohibiting people from entering while armed with firearms.
    Since public transport seems to be run by the city that makes sense. It's sad to see taxpayer owned public buildings are allowed to prohibit firearms which IMHO shouldnt be allowed.

    As for signs any I see will automatically be put on my DNP list though I would like to know the best website to use as i'm aware there are several with lists and maps of businesses that deny the citizens right to protect themselves
    Last edited by rightwinglibertarian; 05-19-2014 at 02:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    939.48 is our self-defense statute, which includes Castle Doctrine. You're allowed to defend a third party.

    uurgh

    (b) The presumption described in par. (ar) does not apply if any of the following applies:
    1. The actor was engaged in a criminal activity or was using his or her dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business to further a criminal activity at the time.
    2. The person against whom the force was used was a public safety worker, as defined in s. 941.375 (1)
    so it's pretty much written in statute you're not allowed to defend yourself against an LEO that violates your rights.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    uurgh



    so it's pretty much written in statute you're not allowed to defend yourself against an LEO that violates your rights.
    Correct. Not aware of any state that allows you to "defend yourself against an Leo that violates your rights".

    Defense against them using unjustly using deadly force against you or others? Yea.

    Physically "defend yourself" from say an illegal stop? Or an illegal demand for I'd? Good luck.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    2. The person against whom the force was used was a public safety worker, as defined in s. 941.375 (1)
    so it's pretty much written in statute you're not allowed to defend yourself against an LEO that violates your rights.
    §941.375 Throwing or discharging bodily fluids at public safety workers. (1) In this section:
    [ ... ]
    (b) “Public safety worker” means an emergency medical technician licensed under s. 256.15, a first responder certified under
    s. 256.15 (8), a peace officer, a fire fighter, or a person operating or staffing an ambulance.
    Cops are notorious now-a-days for no-knock no-announce home invasions. Likewise, BadGuy home invaders try to wrap themselves in the protections offered the police. Common law self-defense depends on the reasonable belief of imminent great bodily harm. Better tried by twelve, good and true, than carried by six that are weeping and blue.

    I am a corresponding member of the National Liberty Alliance devoted to educating jurors and volunteers to common law Grand Juries.
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  20. #20
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Well I've arrived. Not sure how many on here are from the city, or close to it. Was hoping there was a regular OC meetup in the city or at least a 4th of July Demonstration but I don't see one. In any case it could be awhile before I can afford a firearm.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Well I've arrived. Not sure how many on here are from the city, or close to it. Was hoping there was a regular OC meetup in the city or at least a 4th of July Demonstration but I don't see one. In any case it could be awhile before I can afford a firearm.
    Please. It is Independence Day. Even the UK gets a 4th of July.
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  22. #22
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian
    Was hoping there was a regular OC meetup in the city or at least a 4th of July Demonstration but I don't see one.
    Well, since tomorrow is only June 1st, it'll be a little while before all the red, white, & blue decorations come out.

    In addition to Shotgun, you might want to try contacting GlockRDH; he frequently organizes OC breakfasts at Ellie's family restaurant.

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    Unless Google is being dumb thats in Madison. I'm thinking something like an open air meeting by the Mississippi for maximum impact and possibly good conversations. Plus the local LEOs will have to get used to more vocal activities plus being Copblock'd.

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    Welcome to Wis. there is a lot of interesting things here. I lived and worked in La Crosse area a while. I prefer the country over the city for sure.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Unless Google is being dumb thats in Madison. I'm thinking something like an open air meeting by the Mississippi for maximum impact and possibly good conversations. Plus the local LEOs will have to get used to more vocal activities plus being Copblock'd.

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    A very good possibility of visibility before March 2014.

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