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Thread: Moving into the state

  1. #1
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Moving into the state

    Well I've been around for awhile but finally I now know when and where I will be moving to. La Crosse. I've read a fair bit about WI as well as other states but would it would help to know who is local and how active they are. My understanding is WI is


    WI is a stop and I.D state (looking for statutes to cite to demand probable cause for such a request)

    No licence is required to Open Carry but is for concealed (There are places off limits but i'm not sure if there is a difference between the places off limits to a licence holder and one who is)

    Also need to know a local place to get both a WI licence as well as AZ and UT for maximum coverage and last but not least I will be living quite close to UW-L and this i'm assuming is a gun free zone. (1000 yards is it?) Rather avoid any more trouble than I know very well I will get until I have to. Until i'm versed enough in the local law to do a kokesh on any troublemakers that is.


    These next things are OT so optional at least on here but i'd like to start a local Copblock as well as get hold of the local Tea party and any related groups
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Don't need any licenses. 2A should be enough. That's all you need to say. Am I being detained?? And 2a is all I need!

    You'll be fine. Good luck.

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  3. #3
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    Don't need any licenses. 2A should be enough. That's all you need to say. Am I being detained?? And 2a is all I need!

    You'll be fine. Good luck.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

    Thats the way it should be but it's a little more complicated due to the fact that there are many many infringements to the 2nd Amendment plus forum policy is to abide by them and tactically deal with them. Give me credit for trying to toe the line even when i rather strongly disagree ok? :P

    One more thing I remembered. What about the public transport system? I checked the website and couldn't find anything about it and I know better than to phone and ask.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Foreknowledge (or reasonable cause to believe) is an element of the crime of possession in a school zone.



    Further, a university campus is not a school zone for the purposes of 948.605.


    Generally, private property may be posted against gun carry and the trustees probably have the authority to do so.
    Perfect. I wasnt aware a University was excluded. While Private property may well be posted it will of course result in an immediate boycott, adding to DNP establishments on websites as well as a public post on social networks calling them out for it, possibly also promoted for maximum impact

    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    Wisconsin has an active state Constitution Party and is home to the John Birch Society. Wisconsin is largely a red-state with two unfortunate democrat abscesses in Milwaukee and Madison.

    The TEA Party is fractionated. Here's La Crosse http://www.lacrosseteaparty.com/
    I had forgotten about the Constitution Party. I shall have to find the nearest branch. Somehow the John Birch Society escaped me but i'll research them. I won't have a drivers licence save for the UK equivalent of a permit and will be relying on the bus system which is why I asked about them. I am told La Crosse is a libtard area and has a couple of dumbocrat senators in the region. Really have a lot of catching up to do.

    Nightmare I appreciate the official legal links and will need them but for now I think the most helpful is the bullet points. The basic facts then go into the details once I know those.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    I now know when and where I will be moving to. La Crosse.
    Welcome to WI (when you get here).
    since gov walker and the republicans took over state govt, we have turned 180* and have been going in a very positive, very conservative direction of governance.

    if you know of anyone else that is responsible, adult, conservative, not a govt sponge, etc. please tell them also about wisconsin.
    the more people like this we have here, the better our state will be.

  6. #6
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian
    Well I've been around for awhile but finally I now know when and where I will be moving to. La Crosse.
    Welcome to WI, in advance.
    I sent you a PM with some information, including a recommendation of who to contact for a UT class.

    Here's where you can search WI statutes by number or keyword.
    http://legis.wisconsin.gov/RSB/STATS.HTML

    Generally, the 900s are criminal code.
    175.60 is the ccl scheme.
    941.23 is the CCW statute.
    941.237 covers being armed in a "tavern" (bar or restaurant serving alcohol for on-site consumption). Basically, if you're carrying concealed you can't drink alcohol at a tavern. Nowhere are you allowed to be "materially impaired" (by alcohol or other drugs) while in possession of a firearm. The only bright-line definition for that is 0.08% BAC.
    941.20 is titled "Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon", and covers being materially impaired while in possession of a firearm, as well as normal things like pointing a gun at someone who isn't threatening you.
    939.48 is our self-defense statute, which includes Castle Doctrine. You're allowed to defend a third party.
    946.41 is the obstruction statute. Remaining silent is not obstruction.
    No law allows officers to arrest for obstruction on a person's refusal to give his or her name.
    Mere silence is insufficient to constitute obstruction.
    Henes v. Morrissey, 1995
    WI is a stop and I.D state (looking for statutes to cite to demand probable cause for such a request)
    See 968.24, titled temporary questioning without arrest.
    An officer first must reasonably believe that you are/have/will shortly be committing a crime.
    Then they're allowed to demand your name, address, and an explanation of your conduct.
    http://docs.legis.wi.gov/statutes/statutes/968/24

    175.60(2)(g) says that if you're carrying concealed off your own property (home or business or land), or if you're carrying openly someplace where only a licensee can legally carry (on public property within 1000' of the edge of a school property, or in a taxpayer owned building), then an officer can demand to see your carry & driver's licenses, and you must show them.

    No licence is required to Open Carry but is for concealed (There are places off limits but i'm not sure if there is a difference between the places off limits to a licence holder and one who is)
    As I mentioned above, if you're armed in a school zone or a taxpayer-owned building you're required to have a license, open or concealed.
    Otherwise OC does not require a license.
    There is some disagreement (among citizens, cops, & district attorneys) as to whether OC in a car is still cc. There's old case law saying it is, but the laws about carry & transport have changed substantially since then. 167.31 is the transport statute.
    You can carry concealed on your property or in your business (one you own) without a license.

    I will be living quite close to UW-L and this i'm assuming is a gun free zone.
    No, that's a university. See 948.605 for the "gun-free" school zone law. It only applies to grades 1-12.
    You cannot be armed on school grounds, even in your own car, unless you meet one of the exceptions.
    For those, it refers to 18USC922(q)(2)(b), which you can find here http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/18/922
    Note that one of those exceptions is having the gun unloaded & encased. Local LEO might not know the law very well, so if you use that part to your advantage, I'd keep it to yourself.

    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian
    What about the public transport system? I checked the website and couldn't find anything about it and I know better than to phone and ask.
    There is no state law prohibiting lawfully-armed citizens from public transport, so thanks to preemption (see 66.0409) there can be no local law in force.
    Madison thinks it has a ban on armed people in buses, and they're the defendants in a lawsuit brought by Wisconsin Carry because of it.
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Forgot to mention, 943.13 is the trespass statute. Any place (including a taxpayer-owned building) is allowed to post signs prohibiting people from entering while armed with firearms.

    It covers things like how big a sign has to be (at least 5x7"),
    where it has to be (near every entrance),
    how it has to be (reasonably likely to come to the attention of someone entering),
    and what the penalty is for carrying past a sign that you've seen (a ticket of up to $1000).

    For explanation of forbidden acts, & their penalties:
    939.12 Crime defined
    939.50 Classification of felonies
    939.51 Classification of misdemeanors
    939.52 Classification of forfeitures
    939.60 Felony and misdemeanor defined
    939.61 Penalty when none expressed

    If you commit a crime (something for which the potential penalty includes jail or prison) with a gun, the gun is seized & destroyed by the state. There's also a penalty enhancer.


    On a different note, there is no knife preemption, so localities can have laws very different from state law.
    Switchblades are illegal, period. Not even allowed in your home. IIRC, it's a felony to possess one.
    Pepper spray is legal.

  8. #8
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Welcome to WI, in advance.
    I sent you a PM with some information, including a recommendation of who to contact for a UT class.
    Thank you. I was on the cell so going through it all now


    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    There is no state law prohibiting lawfully-armed citizens from public transport, so thanks to preemption (see 66.0409) there can be no local law in force.
    Madison thinks it has a ban on armed people in buses, and they're the defendants in a lawsuit brought by Wisconsin Carry because of it.

    Forgot to mention, 943.13 is the trespass statute. Any place (including a taxpayer-owned building) is allowed to post signs prohibiting people from entering while armed with firearms.
    Since public transport seems to be run by the city that makes sense. It's sad to see taxpayer owned public buildings are allowed to prohibit firearms which IMHO shouldnt be allowed.

    As for signs any I see will automatically be put on my DNP list though I would like to know the best website to use as i'm aware there are several with lists and maps of businesses that deny the citizens right to protect themselves
    Last edited by rightwinglibertarian; 05-19-2014 at 01:45 PM.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post

    939.48 is our self-defense statute, which includes Castle Doctrine. You're allowed to defend a third party.

    uurgh

    (b) The presumption described in par. (ar) does not apply if any of the following applies:
    1. The actor was engaged in a criminal activity or was using his or her dwelling, motor vehicle, or place of business to further a criminal activity at the time.
    2. The person against whom the force was used was a public safety worker, as defined in s. 941.375 (1)
    so it's pretty much written in statute you're not allowed to defend yourself against an LEO that violates your rights.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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  10. #10
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    uurgh



    so it's pretty much written in statute you're not allowed to defend yourself against an LEO that violates your rights.
    Correct. Not aware of any state that allows you to "defend yourself against an Leo that violates your rights".

    Defense against them using unjustly using deadly force against you or others? Yea.

    Physically "defend yourself" from say an illegal stop? Or an illegal demand for I'd? Good luck.

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  11. #11
    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Well I've arrived. Not sure how many on here are from the city, or close to it. Was hoping there was a regular OC meetup in the city or at least a 4th of July Demonstration but I don't see one. In any case it could be awhile before I can afford a firearm.

    Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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  12. #12
    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian
    Was hoping there was a regular OC meetup in the city or at least a 4th of July Demonstration but I don't see one.
    Well, since tomorrow is only June 1st, it'll be a little while before all the red, white, & blue decorations come out.

    In addition to Shotgun, you might want to try contacting GlockRDH; he frequently organizes OC breakfasts at Ellie's family restaurant.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Unless Google is being dumb thats in Madison. I'm thinking something like an open air meeting by the Mississippi for maximum impact and possibly good conversations. Plus the local LEOs will have to get used to more vocal activities plus being Copblock'd.

    Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
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    Welcome to Wis. there is a lot of interesting things here. I lived and worked in La Crosse area a while. I prefer the country over the city for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rightwinglibertarian View Post
    Unless Google is being dumb thats in Madison. I'm thinking something like an open air meeting by the Mississippi for maximum impact and possibly good conversations. Plus the local LEOs will have to get used to more vocal activities plus being Copblock'd.

    Sent from my GT-I8190N using Tapatalk
    A very good possibility of visibility before March 2014.

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    Regular Member rightwinglibertarian's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MKEgal View Post
    Forgot to mention, 943.13 is the trespass statute. Any place (including a taxpayer-owned building) is allowed to post signs prohibiting people from entering while armed with firearms.

    Isnt that preempted by 66.0409(2)?

    (2) Except as provided in subs. (3) and (4), no political subdivision may enact an ordinance or adopt a resolution that regulates the sale, purchase, purchase delay, transfer, ownership, use, keeping, possession, bearing, transportation, licensing, permitting, registration or taxation of any firearm or part of a firearm, including ammunition and reloader components, unless the ordinance or resolution is the same as or similar to, and no more stringent than, a state statute.
    Why is it ok for state buildings to ban firearms yet not so for public transport in Madison? Still public property.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

    "Any and all restrictions on the bearing of arms in public places are nullified as per the Second Amendment"

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