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Thread: You guys have to stop open carying your rifles in places of business.

  1. #1
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    You guys have to stop open carying your rifles in places of business.

    I thought it was cool to open carry, I did it, but I don't do it anymore where it will draw attention.

    I realize now that the open carry rules are really not for you to take your rifle into a store, restaurant or place of business. It is so that you can go shooting, hunting or carry your guns to your car without the police arresting you. It is basically for you to do what most normal people do with there guns, not to go scare people with them.

    Here in Vegas I can open carry and I have, but I don't do it anymore just to show off. I do it when I am moving my guns around or walking around the deserts shooting. I even leave guns just showing in the hatchback of my car. What I love best about open carry is that I can half conceal my pistol or print with it and because of the open carry rules I can not get in trouble.

    What you guys are going to do is have your rights taken away, now you will have to sneak your rifles to your car or whatever. Kind of like what they have in Florida, you can't even print with the concealed carry.

    There is no benefit to doing this, so please stop. If you want to promote gun rights then there are probably better ways for people to get into the hobby.

    I may not be explaining this the best way here but you probably know what I mean. So stop carrying those rifles in places where people will feel you are robbing them.

    We still live in a civilized society and walking around with a rifle just doesn't fit. This isn't the 1700's when you needed to do that.

    I'm not in Vegas but you guys here need to contact the people who are going to ruin everything for you and tell them to stop doing it.
    Last edited by Las Vegas shooter; 05-20-2014 at 10:40 AM.

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    Campaign Veteran MAC702's Avatar
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    You don't seem to acknowledge a critical difference between where we are and where they are.

    It is legal for you and I to OC normally, with handguns, without a license, in Nevada.

    Rifles or black powder are the ONLY legal way for them to carry without a license.

    Yes, it has problems. Blame the Texas legislature for forcing them to do it that way, before blaming them for the attention it causes.

    You are telling them they should be UNARMED instead of carrying a long gun, unless they go black powder.

    BTW: There are no "open carry rules" in Nevada. It is not addressed. And half-concealment and "printing" is also usually a bad idea, in my opinion. Poor concealment, when you are concealing, alarms sheeple, too, whereas purposely openly carrying does not.
    Last edited by MAC702; 05-20-2014 at 03:30 PM. Reason: spelling
    "It's not important how many people I've killed. What's important is how I get along with the people who are still alive" - Jimmy the Tulip

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    This thread has potential!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bernymac View Post
    This thread has potential!
    Yep has potential........for misinformation and misunderstanding.

    Also, its not like we haven't covered this ground before.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Las Vegas Shooter:

    MAC702 makes a Good Point.

    Texas Law does NOT Allow Open Carry of a Handgun.

    Texas Law does, HOWEVER, Allow Open Carry of a Long Gun.

    Their Purpose is to Draw Attention to This Fact to get The Texas Legislature to REPEAL Texas Penal Code 46.035.

    Once The Texas Legislature REPEALS Texas Penal Code 46.035, They will be able to Open Carry Handguns.

    aadvark

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegas shooter View Post
    I thought it was cool to open carry, I did it, but I don't do it anymore where it will draw attention.

    I realize now that the open carry rules are really not for you to take your rifle into a store, restaurant or place of business. It is so that you can go shooting, hunting or carry your guns to your car without the police arresting you. It is basically for you to do what most normal people do with there guns, not to go scare people with them.

    OC is for any legal purpose, including education - not just those with which you agree.

    Here in Vegas I can open carry and I have, but I don't do it anymore just to show off. I do it when I am moving my guns around or walking around the deserts shooting. I even leave guns just showing in the hatchback of my car. What I love best about open carry is that I can half conceal my pistol or print with it and because of the open carry rules I can not get in trouble.

    Nevada gun rules/laws have nothing to do with Texas.

    What you guys are going to do is have your rights taken away, now you will have to sneak your rifles to your car or whatever. Kind of like what they have in Florida, you can't even print with the concealed carry.

    What they are doing will advance the cause - OC is hardly sneaking anything. Please provide a cite for no printing in Florida.

    There is no benefit to doing this, so please stop. If you want to promote gun rights then there are probably better ways for people to get into the hobby.

    It is not a "hobby" and there is great obvious benefit to doing it + it is decidedly within the rules of OCDO.

    I may not be explaining this the best way here but you probably know what I mean. So stop carrying those rifles in places where people will feel you are robbing them.

    Do you think OC of handguns causes people to think they are being robbed? Neither my long guns nor handguns have ever robbed anyone.

    We still live in a civilized society and walking around with a rifle just doesn't fit. This isn't the 1700's when you needed to do that.

    We live in a society where potential violence is prevalent - much more so than in the 1700s. Don't read much do you?

    I'm not in Vegas but you guys here need to contact the people who are going to ruin everything for you and tell them to stop doing it.

    I'm not in Vegas either, but I'm telling them to ramp it up........it is working.
    Replies embedded in blue.

    You do seem to have shades of anti in your crayon box. You want people to hide their guns so that they can OC their guns - strange that.
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-20-2014 at 12:09 PM. Reason: formatting
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegas shooter View Post

    We still live in a civilized society and walking around with a rifle just doesn't fit. This isn't the 1700's when you needed to do that.

    <snip>
    Sounds like argument that antis make about handgun carry ... I cannot help what era I am alive.

    Carry on is my motto.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Sounds like argument that antis make about handgun carry ... I cannot help what era I am alive.

    Carry on is my motto.
    Maybe we in more dangerous times with more dangerous tribes.

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2013/05...-frontier.html






    Armed Citizens and the Modern Frontier





    During much of the United States' existence, a significant portion of the population lived near the uncivilized frontier. The frontier was a place where the laws of civilization did not reach, where Judeo/Christian morals were not in the ascendancy, a place of danger, where travelers must always be on their guard, where savage tribes held sway, a land often as not immersed in a low level of war, either between the tribes or between a tribe and western civilization, and where a man depended on his wits and weapons, and was not able to depend upon the force of law.

    During his formative years, George Washington experienced what life was like on the frontier. While acting as a courier before the French and Indian War, he and a companion traveled along a wilderness pathway. They met an Indian who shared their fire and traveled with them. Suddenly, without warning, the Indian fired his musket at George Washington and his companion, missing both. George learned that on the frontier, there was no rule of law, only that of naked force. The history of the frontier is full of examples such as this. Those who traveled on the frontier, both those belonging to Indian tribes and others, were outside the rule of law. In civilized country, the rule of law was enforced, and extra legal violence was rare.

    The frontier ended in the United States about 1885. The rule of law and Western Civilization had been extended over all of the United States, and could be generally depended on. For a period of perhaps 20 years, a golden age existed in the United States. Success generates its own problems. The very end of the existence of the frontier was used as a pretext for a "Progressivism" that considered the Constitution to be old fashioned and infinitely malleable without the necessity of following legal forms. Teddy Roosevelt was one of the prime promoters of this notion, and Progressives of both parties fought with classical liberals until the Hoover administration, when progressives become dominant in both parties, the national political scene, and popular culture for the next 60 years.

    Early progressives took advantage of a large storehouse of morality and common American values to build their empire, but the empire, based as it was on a philosophical underpinning directly at odds with the fundamental values of America's founding, did nothing to replenish those values, and did much to undermine them.

    There is no fundamental principle to "progressivism" but the desire for power and the belief in the nearly infinite malleability of human nature and the nation by the national elite. The attempt to social engineer, or change society, in the directions that the elite desired, resulted in the attack on traditional morality and belief in national values. Intrusive government control cannot be imposed easily on people who look down on sloth and dependency, and who value personal independence. Early progressives were so immersed in the sea of Judeo/Christian values in which they lived, that they mistook them as the natural state of man, rather than as hard learned lessons that each generation had to relearn through family, church, tradition, and shared national history. Because of this fundamental mistake about human nature, many were surprised when their attacks on church, tradition, family and shared national values resulted in the rise of multitudes of young men reduced to the default position of human nature, where the individual never progresses beyond the childish "I want" stage or progresses only a step up to tribalism, where all outside the tribe are the enemy, and those inside the tribe are "the people".

    The rise of these multitudes, primarily concentrated in the inner city cores, have brought about an era of American history with a new, urban, frontier.

    Once again, most of the country is safe, while those who live next to the modern frontier have to be on constant guard of their lives and their possessions. In the modern frontier, the rule of law and Western Civilization has broken down. A man travels there at his peril. It is once again necessary to depend on one's wits and ones weapons for safety. The tribes of the modern frontier are often at war, and a low state of warfare continually exists with the rest of the nation. As in the past, the level of violent death outside the modern frontier and its borders is quite low, approximating that of other Western civilizations. Inside the frontier, violent death rates are much higher, and approximate that of other societies where the rule of law is not dependable.

    Progressives who have created this situation cannot admit that their policies are the causative agent of this level of violence and death. To admit this would mean that their philosophy and faith are a sham and a failure. They would have to work against everything they have worked for their entire lives. They would have to give up their power, perks, and privileges. Instead, they do what nearly all adults do when faced with facts that repudiate their core beliefs about the nature of reality. They deny them. They create conspiracy theories to explain them. They blame anyone and everyone except their own actions. At its core, modern progressivism is a denial of personal responsibility.

    If we are to reverse the Progressive policies that have created the savage tribes among us, we need to reinforce the hard lessons that Western Civilization learned through millennia of trial and error. The family is the bedrock of society, and must be reinforced by tradition, church, and law. Personal responsibility must accompany personal liberty. Those who violate others liberty and property must be made responsible for their actions; personal responsibility must be taught as paramount, rather than the intellectual vacuity that claims nonsensical "collective responsibility". The entire idea of "collective responsibility" is simply a disguised way to deny individual responsibility, and to allow the individual to do anything without accepting responsibility for their actions. Promotion of individual responsibility without individual liberty will fail. If all individual actions are required or regulated by the State, individual responsibility becomes impossible. If the State requires you to wear a seat belt, then you no longer make a decision to be responsible when you buckle your seat belt. The State has made that decision for you. In order to make individual responsibility viable, the individual must be allowed to fail.

    A glimmer of hope exists in the resurgence of carrying of arms by responsible members of society. The savage tribes in the inner cities do not lawfully carry arms; they do not recognize the law of civilized society. Responsible members of society have recognized the necessity and responsibility to carry arms for their own protection, especially when they are in or near the urban frontier. They also realize that while raids outside of the modern frontier are rare, they exist, and need to be protected against. The triumph of Western Civilization in the golden era at the end of the 19th century had convinced many that the carrying of personal arms was anachronistic and unnecessary. Unsurprisingly, this attitude coincided with the ascendency of "Progressivism". The rise of the modern urban frontier and the savage tribes that inhabit it, created by Progressive policies, has made the carrying of arms a resurgent sign of individual responsibility. A citizen that carries personal arms proudly proclaims his rights and responsibilities. Bearing arms loudly extols the willingness to accept the highest levels of personal responsibility and the invalidity of collective responsibility. This trend shows that the Constitution has not been completely destroyed, that a core culture of personal responsibility yet exists outside of the "Progressive" strongholds, that we have a chance to bring about a resurgence of Western Civilization, and bring the modern urban frontier back under the rule of law.

    The current savage tribes are dependant on the products of civilized society. They depend on the recruitment of new members from broken families supported by the State. They depend on the money flowing into organized crime created by the Progressive policies of the old and new prohibition. It will take time, but these products can all be reduced to tolerable levels by a renewed recognition of the necessity of personal responsibility in our civilization. The exaltation of personal responsibility shown by the lawful carrying of arms not only reinforces the principle of personal responsibility, it makes membership in the savage tribes more costly. The replacement of failed public schools with private and charter schools that emphasize parental choice and personal responsibility can help dry up the replacements needed to maintain the savage tribes in the modern urban frontier, as can a resurgence of Judeo/Christian values in churches. Removal of the support of the "Progressive" state from those institutions that preach against individual responsibility by emphasizing a false "collective responsibility" will do a great deal to undercut the replacement of the tribes lost to inter tribal warfare, prison, and armed citizens. The strict enforcement of the law for small illegal acts helps to reinforce the principle of individual responsibility and makes life among the tribes less attractive. The replacement of State decisions in personal matters with personal decisions and responsibility for those decisions, can dry up the money from the new prohibition.

    All of these things can be done. The question is whether there is enough of the values of Western Civilization left in the current population to overcome the platitudes of the old "Progressive" elite. The easy mechanism of elections still exist. We will soon see if it will be used to restore civilization or to enlarge the modern urban frontier to include the entire nation.

    An earlier version of this essay was published in 2010. It has been revised and updated

    ©2013 by Dean Weingarten Permission to share granted as long as this notice is included.

    Example: It would not take much to transport this conflict to the edge of the frontier in Kentucky in 1780.
    Personal Defensive Solutions professional personal firearms, edge weapons and hands on defensive training and tactics pdsolutions@hotmail.com

    Any and all spelling errors are just to give the spelling Nazis something to do

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    Though good reading ^ ^ ^ a wall of words, likely unread but by a few.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegas shooter View Post
    I thought it was cool to open carry, I did it, but I don't do it anymore where it will draw attention.


    There is no benefit to doing this, so please stop. If you want to promote gun rights then there are probably better ways for people to get into the hobby.

    I may not be explaining this the best way here but you probably know what I mean. So stop carrying those rifles in places where people will feel you are robbing them.

    We still live in a civilized society and walking around with a rifle just doesn't fit. This isn't the 1700's when you needed to do that.
    Wow, who made you "the decider" about what other people need?

    My nephew is 15. He may carry a rifle, but federal law prevents him from carrying a handgun. Does he have the right to self defense?

    Live Free or Die,
    Thundar


    P.S. I can assure you that for most on this board liberty, which includes the RKBA, is a way of life, not a hobby.
    Last edited by Thundar; 05-20-2014 at 01:01 PM.
    He wore his gun outside his pants for all the honest world to see. Pancho & Lefty

    The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us....There is no retreat but in submission and slavery! ...The war is inevitable–and let it come! I repeat it, Sir, let it come …………. PATRICK HENRY speech 1776

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Las Vegas shooter View Post
    I thought it was cool to open carry, I did it, but I don't do it anymore where it will draw attention.

    I realize now that the open carry rules are really not for you to take your rifle into a store, restaurant or place of business. It is so that you can go shooting, hunting or carry your guns to your car without the police arresting you. It is basically for you to do what most normal people do with there guns, not to go scare people with them.

    Here in Vegas I can open carry and I have, but I don't do it anymore just to show off. I do it when I am moving my guns around or walking around the deserts shooting. I even leave guns just showing in the hatchback of my car. What I love best about open carry is that I can half conceal my pistol or print with it and because of the open carry rules I can not get in trouble.

    What you guys are going to do is have your rights taken away, now you will have to sneak your rifles to your car or whatever. Kind of like what they have in Florida, you can't even print with the concealed carry.

    There is no benefit to doing this, so please stop. If you want to promote gun rights then there are probably better ways for people to get into the hobby.

    I may not be explaining this the best way here but you probably know what I mean. So stop carrying those rifles in places where people will feel you are robbing them.

    We still live in a civilized society and walking around with a rifle just doesn't fit. This isn't the 1700's when you needed to do that.

    I'm not in Vegas but you guys here need to contact the people who are going to ruin everything for you and tell them to stop doing it.
    My rights were suppressed by the Texas legislature immediately following the civil war and have been suppressed ever since, and the anti-long-gun-oc crowd has done absolutely **** to restore the acknowledgement of my rights in Texas. Thanks for your concern, though.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    My rights were suppressed by the Texas legislature immediately following the civil war and have been suppressed ever since, and the anti-long-gun-oc crowd has done absolutely **** to restore the acknowledgement of my rights in Texas. Thanks for your concern, though.


    And you think these stupid stunts at Chipotles and other places is helping??
    If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege.
    --- Arkansas Supreme Court, Wilson v. State (1878)

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    Quote Originally Posted by 223to45 View Post
    And you think these stupid stunts at Chipotles and other places is helping??
    Since when did the lawful open carry of a firearm become a stunt? Suppose that is what the second amendment has been all this time, nothing more than a stunt?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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  14. #14
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 223to45 View Post
    And you think these stupid stunts at Chipotles and other places is helping??
    Do you think loaded questions and inaction is helping? Get off your ass and restore Texan's gun rights, then criticize me on how I do it.
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 05-20-2014 at 06:39 PM.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Do you think loaded questions and inaction is helping? Get off your ass and restore Texan's gun rights, then criticize me on how I do it.

    What have you done lately for the OC cause? Bitch and moan on the internet? Sorry, THAT, my friend, is what does not help.
    +1 something we can agree on...
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
    Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson
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  16. #16
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Thank you WalkingWolf. I'm actually really glad that we have found something to agree on.
    ----------
    Texas has prohibited the possession of a handgun since, when? I don't even know. Shortly after the civil war, right? All of these ass-sitters who think upsetting the status quo is going to result in them "losing" a right, YOUR RIGHT WAS LOST WHEN THE CONSTITUTION WAS RECONSTRUCTED, and you've had since then to fix it! The status quo WILL BE upset before the rights of Texans to keep and bear arms is restored. You should either help, or stay out of the way.
    Advocate freedom please

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    No person without a uniform or a badge is going to be accepted walking around the public square with an AR, AK, 12 ga, or whatever shouldered ...except under extraordinary circumstances...such as a " Katrina " aftermath...or an armed invasion.

    The upcoming 2015 Texas Legislature is going to address this problem. A bill will be considered, and - I am convinced - will be PASSED, and signed into law by Governor Abbott similar to the Oklahoma Self Defense Act allowing for CARRY of a handgun WITH A LICENSE.

    Please ...confine these long gun carry expeditions to properties that welcome same....by prior arrangement - at least.
    Last edited by rushcreek2; 05-20-2014 at 06:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Do you think loaded questions and inaction is helping? Get off your ass and restore Texan's gun rights, then criticize me on how I do it.

    Your anti-progress methods are going to cause problems outside of Texas.

    Get a petition started and get it on the ballot. Instead making the rest of us gun owner look like Xbox commandos.
    If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege.
    --- Arkansas Supreme Court, Wilson v. State (1878)

  19. #19
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 223to45 View Post
    Your anti-progress methods are going to cause problems outside of Texas.

    Get a petition started and get it on the ballot. Instead making the rest of us gun owner look like Xbox commandos.
    You rest of the gun owners look like nothing, nobody knows you exist, because you do nothing to work toward the restoration of rights. You clearly know nothing about the history of the OC movement in Texas, either, else you'd know that OC bills have come up and died. OC is a big issue in Texas precisely as a result of the efforts of groups such as OCT, CATI and TC. This is admitted even by anti-OC gun groups, of which I'm sure you're a fan, such as the NRA and TSRA. These groups, you might be surprised to know, have actually taken credit for killing an OC bill in Texas. They claim it a victory.

    It's ironic that you'd say OCT makes other gun owners look like xbox commandos when they are the ones on the street working and you are the on your keyboard bitching about it. Perhaps you other gun owners actually are xbox commandos and can't stand it when someone makes waves and it becomes apparent.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rushcreek2 View Post
    No person without a uniform or a badge is going to be accepted walking around the public square with an AR, AK, 12 ga, or whatever shouldered ...except under extraordinary circumstances...such as a " Katrina " aftermath...or an armed invasion.

    The upcoming 2015 Texas Legislature is going to address this problem. A bill will be considered, and - I am convinced - will be PASSED, and signed into law by Governor Abbott similar to the Oklahoma Self Defense Act allowing for CARRY of a handgun WITH A LICENSE.

    Please ...confine these long gun carry expeditions to properties that welcome same....by prior arrangement - at least.
    I must have missed the red army a few streets over on our last few OC walks... That must have been why we didn't have any problems.
    Advocate freedom please

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    http://aattp.org/meet-the-dangerous-...heir-blessing/



    This are the people that suppose to represent gun owners?? No thanks, I will go it alone.
    If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege.
    --- Arkansas Supreme Court, Wilson v. State (1878)

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 223to45 View Post
    http://aattp.org/meet-the-dangerous-...heir-blessing/

    This are the people that suppose to represent gun owners?? No thanks, I will go it alone.
    And so shall you undoubtedly proceed.......alone.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    And so shall you undoubtedly proceed.......alone.

    Hey if you want dumb and dumber on your side go ahead have them. Real gun owners don't need some gangsta wannabe to be poster boy. Even OCT doesn't want anything to do with them.
    If cowardly and dishonorable men sometimes shoot unarmed men with army pistols or guns, the evil must be prevented by the penitentiary and gallows, and not by a general deprivation of constitutional privilege.
    --- Arkansas Supreme Court, Wilson v. State (1878)

  24. #24
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 223to45 View Post
    Hey if you want dumb and dumber on your side go ahead have them. Real gun owners don't need some gangsta wannabe to be poster boy. Even OCT doesn't want anything to do with them.
    You are so incorrect you've proven yourself an idiot. There is no more need to engage with you. Goodbye.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by 223to45 View Post
    http://aattp.org/meet-the-dangerous-...heir-blessing/



    This are the people that suppose to represent gun owners?? No thanks, I will go it alone.
    Holy crap...if that article had any more spin to it, it would be a called vertigo.
    "Now, why believe in anything they praise,
    When one hand holds them the victor,
    While the other holds the shovel to their graves?"
    ~~~Claudio Sanchez

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