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Thread: Got a question....

  1. #1
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    Got a question....

    If you are OC'ing in your automobile and a cop asks to see your Conceal Carry card and you say you don't have one can he inspect your firearm to make sure it's not loaded?

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    Regular Member Stretch's Avatar
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    Pretty sure they can cite you and more.

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    Campaign Veteran Right Wing Wacko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    If you are OC'ing in your automobile and a cop asks to see your Conceal Carry card and you say you don't have one can he inspect your firearm to make sure it's not loaded?
    Having a loaded gun in any vehicle requires you have a CPL However since t's unloaded I believe he would need to have RAS to believe it's loaded before he could check it.
    Last edited by Right Wing Wacko; 05-21-2014 at 12:41 AM.

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    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    I got pulled over for speeding by State Patrol. They know we have a CPL when they run your plates. The first question he had was "do you have a gun?". Yes, OK don't touch it. Still got a frikin ticket!! Unlikely to ask to see your CPL, since they already know you have one.
    Last edited by golddigger14s; 05-21-2014 at 01:41 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by golddigger14s View Post
    I got pulled over for speeding by State Patrol. They know we have a CPL when they run your plates. The first question he had was "do you have a gun?". Yes, OK don't touch it. Still got a frikin ticket!! Unlikely to ask to see your CPL, since they already know you have one.
    When they run your plates or driver's license?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Wing Wacko View Post
    Having a loaded gun in any vehicle requires you have a CPL However since t's unloaded I believe he would need to have RAS to believe it's loaded before he could check it.
    Never said it was unloaded...more or less does he have the power to ensure it's unloaded...

  7. #7
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    When they run your plates or driver's license?
    Plates. He asked before he even got my license, and insurance.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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    Regular Member Difdi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Right Wing Wacko View Post
    Having a loaded gun in any vehicle requires you have a CPL However since t's unloaded I believe he would need to have RAS to believe it's loaded before he could check it.
    An unloaded gun makes a very poor club. People carry for self-defense -- it's reasonable to believe they are carrying it in a manner that it would not be useless.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    An unloaded gun makes a very poor club. People carry for self-defense -- it's reasonable to believe they are carrying it in a manner that it would not be useless.

    Perhaps, but my original question still stands. Besides you have to have your CPL on your person if you are carrying in a manner that warrants the CPL to begin with...

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    When they run your plates or driver's license?
    I listen to the B'ham scanner quite a bit and I hear them call in vehicles. Yes, I have heard the despatch tell the LEO the "owner" has a CPL. Now, it may not be the reg owner driving. I have been with my Sweet Baboo when she got a speeding ticket. She was concealed, I was OC, and the LEO did not even ask.

    On the OPs query....If you are "breaking" the law by carrying concealed without a permit (CPL), why would you NOT be arrested/ticketed? Being in/on a vehicle requires a CPL, you can see it in the RCW.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    I listen to the B'ham scanner quite a bit and I hear them call in vehicles. Yes, I have heard the despatch tell the LEO the "owner" has a CPL. Now, it may not be the reg owner driving. I have been with my Sweet Baboo when she got a speeding ticket. She was concealed, I was OC, and the LEO did not even ask.

    On the OPs query....If you are "breaking" the law by carrying concealed without a permit (CPL), why would you NOT be arrested/ticketed? Being in/on a vehicle requires a CPL, you can see it in the RCW.

    I was under the impression that you can OC in your vehicle WITHOUT a CPL...your weapon just can't be loaded hence my original post.

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    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
    9.41.050
    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


    There you go.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    I think it would be presumptuous for them to assume you are breaking the law. They would need evidence you are.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
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    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9.41.050
    9.41.050
    (2)(a) A person shall not carry or place a loaded pistol in any vehicle unless the person has a license to carry a concealed pistol and: (i) The pistol is on the licensee's person, (ii) the licensee is within the vehicle at all times that the pistol is there, or (iii) the licensee is away from the vehicle and the pistol is locked within the vehicle and concealed from view from outside the vehicle.


    There you go.
    The first sentence ....is it saying exclusively LOADED?

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    When they run your plates or driver's license?
    Yes, and oh sooooo much more.

    Welcome to the era of big gov and data mining private companies. Soon they will be able to do things like:

    Pull up your travel history based on traffic cam, toll cams, high speed license plat scanners mounted to vehicles.

    Pull up all your info without talking to you or seeing your idea: biometrics + body mounted cam (info might just include medical records and any subscription meds, facebook posts, recent purchases in stores and online, and they could add in info about recent emails and phone calls -- if things get real bad, etc) With google glasse type products you'll never know they are doing it.


    http://cnsnews.com/news/article/barb...cess-americans
    http://www.slate.com/blogs/future_te...gle_glass.html
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 05-21-2014 at 11:36 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    An unloaded gun makes a very poor club. People carry for self-defense -- it's reasonable to believe they are carrying it in a manner that it would not be useless.
    While it may be reasonable to you that an individual would be carrying in a specific manner. However, I believe the cop has to assume you are following the law unless he has RAS that you are not. Plus I have carried unloaded in WA before, it only takes a second to become operational.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lovenox View Post
    Never said it was unloaded...more or less does he have the power to ensure it's unloaded...
    I am not a lawyer obviously this is just my input. I believe they would need to have RAS that the gun is loaded in order to pursue it further. What cumulative evidence raises the suspicion to RAS, I don't know. Clearly, I would say if he could see the magazine inserted into the firearm that may be enough RAS to suspect it to be loaded.

    Also, I would like to note that making a false or misleading statement to an officer is an offense. So, saying its not loaded and the officer getting RAS and determines it loaded would end up not well for you.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    How could he possibly know who was driving the vehicle just from the license plates? That's amazing....
    I would say your BOTH correct. Based on information I have for Dispatch in MT and my understanding of Dispatch in WA.

    a) Dispatch receives the plates back from the officer and during that check it can also have CPL information for any RO to the vehicle.
    b) Its not guaranteed that the person driving is an RO, so it should not be assumed that the information returned for the RO is the person driving. However, most of the time it likely is.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

    It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    I would say your BOTH correct. Based on information I have for Dispatch in MT and my understanding of Dispatch in WA.

    a) Dispatch receives the plates back from the officer and during that check it can also have CPL information for any RO to the vehicle.
    b) Its not guaranteed that the person driving is an RO, so it should not be assumed that the information returned for the RO is the person driving. However, most of the time it likely is.
    How long has that been going on?

    Redmond didn't believe that I had one after they decided to felony stop me one morning. Then wrote a ticket for an unsafe lane change when I had never changed lanes in the first place.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Difdi View Post
    An unloaded gun makes a very poor club. People carry for self-defense -- it's reasonable to believe they are carrying it in a manner that it would not be useless.
    What you don't ask the criminal that is beating, stabbing, or shooting at you to stop and recognize your time-out so you can load your weapon? (note this is sarcasm).

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    Campaign Veteran slapmonkay's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    How long has that been going on?

    Redmond didn't believe that I had one after they decided to felony stop me one morning. Then wrote a ticket for an unsafe lane change when I had never changed lanes in the first place.
    My understanding the WA Dispatch is in regards to WSP. Each city may do things differently.
    I Am Not A Lawyer, verify all facts presented independently.

    It's called the "American Dream" because you have to be asleep to believe it. - George Carlin

    I carry a spare tire, in case I have a flat. I carry life insurance, in case I die. I carry a gun, in case I need it.

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    Regular Member DocWalker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    How could he possibly know who was driving the vehicle just from the license plates? That's amazing....
    Crystal ball or Ouija board in his cruiser.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by slapmonkay View Post
    My understanding the WA Dispatch is in regards to WSP. Each city may do things differently.
    Yep, there are a lot of different systems. In Pierce Co. A majority of the municipalities use South Sound 911 (formerly LESA) for their support systems.

    Depending on the system and how they decide to set it up they can have a plate check return CPL info on the registered drivers, as well as also return a list of any handguns an individual has purchased that are entered into the DOL'S handgun registry.
    Last edited by muggins; 05-21-2014 at 02:27 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I think it would be presumptuous for them to assume you are breaking the law.
    But that's the new 'normal.'

    Every citizen is presumed guilty and must be surveilled.

    I think they even gave up on the tired lie "it's for the children.' and really just expect us to **** and take it.

  24. #24
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    How could he possibly know who was driving the vehicle just from the license plates? That's amazing....
    In our system the info for the plate comes right from the registry (DMV). If you have a license then you have a photo on file from the DMV. When you enter tag it comes up with MV info (make model year status of registration) and owner info (name DOB address given to RMV). This brings up a series of tabs.

    Some tabs include,NCIC, photo, WMS (warrant management system), BOP (board of probation), and IMC. IMC is the the link to our in house report system. Several surrounding departments use this system.

    So here's how it goes...

    Pull car over. Enter plate. Said tabs come up with owner info. Name is JOE SNUFFY 01/01/1980. License is active registration is active. Plate is attached to correct vehicle.

    Click (press touch screen) the image button..bam a color photo of JOE SNUFFY is there. Then you check other tabs if needed. If WMS is red (possible hit) then you click it. It shows list of names and DOBs. Confirm warrant or move on.

    The IMC portion is where you can quickly find the gun info. If the license was issued by my city or even a surrounding city/town that uses the same report system, then you click the IMC tab. If you have a LTC it'll have your basic info in a profile. So name dob address. If you have a LTC it'll say right on it, "LTC class a issued no restrictions" or w/e your license is (class B, FID etc.).

    So now you have Joe Snuffys name and DOB, more importantly a PHOTO and a report that your department gave him a license to carry. So you can walk up to vehicle and inquire about it. If you walked up and saw it was Joe snuffys 17 year old daughter then obviously its not him.

    Note, none of the information is "data mined" by the NSA or FBI or secret ninjas in your closet. Its all information you give to the RMV and the department when you apply for a LTC.

    Also everything I just listed can/is done right in the cruiser behind you. It can also be done by dispatch if need be. Depends on the circumstance.

    I hope this helps clarify how SOME departments gather basic info. Again, there is no data mining or ninjas. Its info you voluntarily give to RMV. If you want to list your address as somewhere its not, then that's on you. It is a citable offense but I could personally care less.

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  25. #25
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Oh, and if the guy happens to drive by your clear like of sight, when you enter the plate pull up the photo and you can have a clear ID and know of it is the driver. This is in ideal conditions though..lighting, weather, tinting, etc obviously make that vary.

    Again.... this isn't voodoo magic. Its just looking at a photo voluntarily given.

    Caveat- for states that don't have photos, you would have to match up other info given, height weight , race, gender, etc. Etc.

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