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Thread: Should convicted felons be allowed to bear arms?

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Should convicted felons be allowed to bear arms?

    So, solid, joesparky, hhofent??, and Doug aka Nightmare...

    You seem to take issue with my reporting a convicted felon in possession of firearms and cite no valid reason for actually objecting, leading me to assume it's just a personal grudge.

    Staying on topic, should convicted felons be allowed to keep and bear arms? Make your case or exit the debate. Simply resorting to name calling and pursuing a personal vendetta is not debate and I won't be participating in it.

    Its pathetic that you object to me bearing arms when I haven't been convicted for any crime which would bar me from owning and possessing firearms, but lobby for the "rights" of convicted felons. Do you really think you can have it both ways? Your opinions and emotions do not trump my civil rights. So, make a case.

  2. #2
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Autocorrect...

    *solus

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Why shouldn't they?

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Haven't we had this discussion before?

    If they are too dangerous to carry arms, then they should not be walking amongst us - so say some.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Haven't we had this discussion before?

    If they are too dangerous to carry arms, then they should not be walking amongst us - so say some.
    +1

    It took almost 2 centuries to come up with a rationalization for those rules.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grapeshot View Post
    Haven't we had this discussion before?

    If they are too dangerous to carry arms, then they should not be walking amongst us - so say some.
    Another argument not noted: Because a felony can be almost anything the gov't wants it to be.

    Ex: Illinois .. made littering a felony

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...5&ChapterID=36
    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...F/098-0483.pdf

    Even tossing a cig butt out the window ? Many people do this at least once a day !

    A third or subsequent violation, committed after a second conviction is a Class 4 felony. 415 ILCS 105/8

    We are all felons .... just waiting to be convicted

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Another argument not noted: Because a felony can be almost anything the gov't wants it to be. [ ... ]
    We are all felons .... just waiting to be convicted
    http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/You...6/Default.aspx
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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Yes, they should be allowed to bear arms. When the state convicts and issues punishment for ones crimes and that punishment is completed then ones debt to society is complete. The permanent loss of ones rights after serving the sentence is wrong. I have not read in the 2nd Amendment where it states the right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed unless you are a convicted felon or live in New York, DC, Kalifornia, or etc. Any infringement of owning or possessing firearms is illegal by my reading of Bill of Rights and by the writings of our founders on what the 2nd Amendment means.

    Keep the lawyer mumbo jumbo out of it. The 2nd Amendment is very clear and so were our founders.

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Scary stuff

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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    The article cited lists the following "real-life" dangers we all face every day:


    ► Violation of Foreign Law (The Lacey) Act
    ► Federal Wilderness Act
    ► Honest Services Fraud
    ► Espionage Act
    ► Obstruction of Justice
    ► Computer Fraud and Abuse Act
    ► Wire Fraud
    ► Providing Material Support for Terrorists
    ► False Statements to a Federal Official

    If the hypotheticals and anecdotal charges were actually a pervasive problem, we would all be up in arms about them. Yet, how many of us have ever heard of, much less known of anyone who has ever been charged with these federal felonies?

    There is sufficient reason to be aware of all of the state and local laws of which we might run afoul, but to feed the paranoia of those who suspect that government exists only to catch us breaking one of their laws is just, well, unreal.

    The foregoing is not to say that all of us should not make certain that we know the laws with which we come into contact every day -- most importantly the state and local laws concerning the right to carry and be secure in our person, papers and property from unwarranted search and seizure. To load a pile of paranoid crap that we might be committing federal felonies every day is just tin-foil-hat material.

    IMHO.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    The article cited lists the following "real-life" dangers we all face every day:


    ► Violation of Foreign Law (The Lacey) Act
    ► Federal Wilderness Act
    ► Honest Services Fraud
    ► Espionage Act
    ► Obstruction of Justice
    ► Computer Fraud and Abuse Act
    ► Wire Fraud
    ► Providing Material Support for Terrorists
    ► False Statements to a Federal Official

    If the hypotheticals and anecdotal charges were actually a pervasive problem, we would all be up in arms about them. Yet, how many of us have ever heard of, much less known of anyone who has ever been charged with these federal felonies?

    There is sufficient reason to be aware of all of the state and local laws of which we might run afoul, but to feed the paranoia of those who suspect that government exists only to catch us breaking one of their laws is just, well, unreal.

    The foregoing is not to say that all of us should not make certain that we know the laws with which we come into contact every day -- most importantly the state and local laws concerning the right to carry and be secure in our person, papers and property from unwarranted search and seizure. To load a pile of paranoid crap that we might be committing federal felonies every day is just tin-foil-hat material.

    IMHO.
    Well said. +1

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  12. #12
    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    No, felons shouldn't be allowed to bear arms; at least not unless there is a possibility that their lives could be endangered before the arrival of some government agent with a specific legal duty to protect that felon's life. And since the police do Not have a specific duty and have not created any special relationship......

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    [ ... ]There is sufficient reason to be aware of all of the state and local laws of which we might run afoul, but to feed the paranoia of those who suspect that government exists only to catch us breaking one of their laws is just, well, unreal. [ ... ] To load a pile of paranoid crap that we might be committing federal felonies every day is just tin-foil-hat material. IMHO.
    FBI Director James Comey has a message for Americans: be suspicious of the federal government.

    Mr. Comey told the Senate Judiciary Committee on Wednesday that in the wake of the Edward Snowden scandal he could understand why Americans would be worried about government overreach.

    http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/...d-be-suspicio/
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    I'll take a stab, for VIOLENT felony convictions then negative. For non violent crimes , say larceny from a building, then no.

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    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

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    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    The article cited lists the following "real-life" dangers we all face every day:


    ► Violation of Foreign Law (The Lacey) Act
    ► Federal Wilderness Act
    ► Honest Services Fraud
    ► Espionage Act
    ► Obstruction of Justice
    ► Computer Fraud and Abuse Act
    ► Wire Fraud
    ► Providing Material Support for Terrorists
    ► False Statements to a Federal Official

    If the hypotheticals and anecdotal charges were actually a pervasive problem, we would all be up in arms about them. Yet, how many of us have ever heard of, much less known of anyone who has ever been charged with these federal felonies?

    There is sufficient reason to be aware of all of the state and local laws of which we might run afoul, but to feed the paranoia of those who suspect that government exists only to catch us breaking one of their laws is just, well, unreal.

    The foregoing is not to say that all of us should not make certain that we know the laws with which we come into contact every day -- most importantly the state and local laws concerning the right to carry and be secure in our person, papers and property from unwarranted search and seizure. To load a pile of paranoid crap that we might be committing federal felonies every day is just tin-foil-hat material.

    IMHO.
    Further, in hind sight is somewhat off-topic - I'm referring to the original post by Nightmare:
    http://www.threefeloniesaday.com/You...6/Default.aspx
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 05-22-2014 at 10:39 AM. Reason: clarifying
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

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    Regular Member OC Freedom's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    I'll take a stab, for VIOLENT felony convictions then negative. For non violent crimes , say larceny from a building, then no.

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    I refer you to my first post, but I agree that I do not want violent felons convicted of having firearms. My feelings or what I think that the way things should be does not trump the 2nd Amendment The Amendment is very clear and so is our founders intent by their own words. "No infringement". The Bill of Rights were written simply and clearly for all people of various educational levels to understand. Lets put our personal feelings aside and ask ourselves does the 2nd give felons that served their time the right to keep and bear arms.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post

    Its pathetic that you object to me bearing arms when I haven't been convicted for any crime which would bar me from owning and possessing firearms, but lobby for the "rights" of convicted felons. Do you really think you can have it both ways? Your opinions and emotions do not trump my civil rights. So, make a case.
    Why are you worried about people saying that you should not own guns? I get this all the time in my state .. been called a "terrorist", "monster", and all sorts of names by public officials.

    I pay them no mind.

  18. #18
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC Freedom View Post
    I refer you to my first post, but I agree that I do not want violent felons convicted of having firearms. My feelings or what I think that the way things should be does not trump the 2nd Amendment The Amendment is very clear and so is our founders intent by their own words. "No infringement". The Bill of Rights were written simply and clearly for all people of various educational levels to understand. Lets put our personal feelings aside and ask ourselves does the 2nd give felons that served their time the right to keep and bear arms.
    The second amendment grant no rights, the bill of rights grants no rights, instead it only affirms those rights that existed before the creation of government.

    So, why should someone who has been deemed safe to release into society be stripped of their basic right of self defense and the defense of others?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Another argument not noted: Because a felony can be almost anything the gov't wants it to be.



    Ex: Illinois .. made littering a felony



    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/ilcs...5&ChapterID=36

    http://www.ilga.gov/legislation/publ...F/098-0483.pdf



    Even tossing a cig butt out the window ? Many people do this at least once a day !



    A third or subsequent violation, committed after a second conviction is a Class 4 felony. 415 ILCS 105/8



    We are all felons .... just waiting to be convicted

    That is truly messed up.

    I believe an officer making them pick it up and then fining them is punishment enough. And embarrassing.

  20. #20
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Why are you worried about people saying that you should not own guns? I get this all the time in my state .. been called a "terrorist", "monster", and all sorts of names by public officials.



    I pay them no mind.



    Because when you change your ways there's always somebody trying to knock you back down. It gets old after a while. I've worked hard to change the way I react and breaking old habits is the hardest thing I've ever done and I'm damn proud of it.

  21. #21
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Felons are allowed to own guns in most of the country. They are not restricted by federal law from buying antique firearms.

    Just to add my own spin, I would much rather a convicted felon who has become a law abiding citizen have a gun, than police that shoot innocent people. Keep in mind this is not all police, but it does seem to be accepted since 9/11.

    I also would rather to see a felon armed than some OCD(Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) nut cases, that are wound to tight. There is no way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals because some criminals have not been caught and convicted.

    Our POTUS has used cocaine which is a felony. Yet others who have been caught have lost their rights forever, I fail to see the sense in that especially since our POTUS is the one who has actually been responsible for the deaths of many innocent lives. Including women and children.
    Last edited by WalkingWolf; 05-22-2014 at 12:33 PM.
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    The NFA in it's entirety should be rescinded.

  23. #23
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Felons are allowed to own guns in most of the country. They are not restricted by federal law from buying antique firearms.

    Just to add my own spin, I would much rather a convicted felon who has become a law abiding citizen have a gun, than police that shoot innocent people. Keep in mind this is not all police, but it does seem to be accepted since 9/11.

    I also would rather to see a felon armed than some OCD(Obsessive Compulsive Disorder) nut cases, that are wound to tight. There is no way to keep guns out of the hands of criminals because some criminals have not been caught and convicted.

    Our POTUS has used cocaine which is a felony. Yet others who have been caught have lost their rights forever, I fail to see the sense in that especially since our POTUS is the one who has actually been responsible for the deaths of many innocent lives. Including women and children.
    +1

    It's ok to have guns as long as you were a funny badge and a state issued costume somehow your crimes are not felonies.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  24. #24
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    The article cited lists the following "real-life" dangers we all face every day:


    ► Violation of Foreign Law (The Lacey) Act
    ► Federal Wilderness Act
    ► Honest Services Fraud
    ► Espionage Act
    ► Obstruction of Justice
    ► Computer Fraud and Abuse Act
    ► Wire Fraud
    ► Providing Material Support for Terrorists
    ► False Statements to a Federal Official

    If the hypotheticals and anecdotal charges were actually a pervasive problem, we would all be up in arms about them. Yet, how many of us have ever heard of, much less known of anyone who has ever been charged with these federal felonies?

    There is sufficient reason to be aware of all of the state and local laws of which we might run afoul, but to feed the paranoia of those who suspect that government exists only to catch us breaking one of their laws is just, well, unreal.

    The foregoing is not to say that all of us should not make certain that we know the laws with which we come into contact every day -- most importantly the state and local laws concerning the right to carry and be secure in our person, papers and property from unwarranted search and seizure. To load a pile of paranoid crap that we might be committing federal felonies every day is just tin-foil-hat material.

    IMHO.

    I know people who have been railroaded by obscure laws and had their rights violated. Yet that is besides the point.

    The point that it happens to anyone at all , and that they have the ability to act upon it at anytime is very very very bad.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  25. #25
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    I know people who have been railroaded by obscure laws and had their rights violated. Yet that is besides the point.

    The point that it happens to anyone at all , and that they have the ability to act upon it at anytime is very very very bad.
    I guess you missed the moderator's point that this whole "federal felony" thing that has the potential to make felons of us all, is off topic.
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Last edited by JamesCanby; 05-22-2014 at 03:55 PM.
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