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Thread: Mark Hoffman persecuted for Open Carry

  1. #1
    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Mark Hoffman persecuted for Open Carry

    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/05...ffman.html?m=1

    Mark Hoffman was charged and convicted of "loitering" for open carry. Let's plan a protest. Message me and let's get this going. He is being denied his civil rights and being persecuted for standing his ground.

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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    http://gunwatch.blogspot.com/2014/05...ffman.html?m=1

    Mark Hoffman was charged and convicted of "loitering" for open carry. Let's plan a protest. Message me and let's get this going. He is being denied his civil rights and being persecuted for standing his ground.
    I suppose now that OC is not DC, therefore OC=loitering. This means if they don't like OC, you are loitering. That means I loiter all day when OCing.

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    Here's the link to the Somerset village ordinance that he was charged under.

    https://library.municode.com/HTML/14...UNPEWHALBEARDI


    (c)

    Loitering or Prowling Prohibited.

    (1)

    No person shall loiter or prowl in a place, at a time or in a manner not usual for law abiding individuals under circumstances that warrant alarm for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity. Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself/herself or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself/herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstances makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this Section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm which would otherwise be warranted, by requesting him/her to identify himself/herself and explain his/her presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this Subsection if the law enforcement officer did not comply with the preceding sentence, or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person was true and, if believed by the law enforcement officer at the time, would have dispelled the alarm.
    Last edited by Firearms Iinstuctor; 05-28-2014 at 02:16 PM.
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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    If open carry is legal, and at the same time "unusual for law abiding citizens, then legal activity is illegal?

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    The fine will be set at $195.90 and is payable within sixty
    days. If more time is needed or there is a request for a payment
    plan, please contact the Clerk of Court.


    I would wait past sixty days, then its not payable anymore.
    I don't pay gov't civil penalties.

    Is the guy going to appeal ?

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    It is my understanding it is being appealed now.
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  7. #7
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Here's the link to the Somerset village ordinance that he was charged under.

    https://library.municode.com/HTML/14...UNPEWHALBEARDI

    ....
    I thought that (at least) the 4th Circuit ruled that "fleeing" or otherwise leaving upon the arrival of the cops was not sufficient reason to stop and do a Terry search. NC case related to concealed handgun iirc.

    Anti-loitering laws are usually hold-overs from times gone by when it was easier to lean hard on certain groups who were not white. Challenges to them may not get them completely repealed but more often than not take most of the wind out of their sails.

    Good luck to him?

    Will there be a defense fund set up?

    stay safe.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Firearms Iinstuctor View Post
    Here's the link to the Somerset village ordinance that he was charged under.

    https://library.municode.com/HTML/14...UNPEWHALBEARDI


    (c)

    Loitering or Prowling Prohibited.

    (1)

    No person shall loiter or prowl in a place, at a time or in a manner not usual for law abiding individuals under circumstances that warrant alarm for the safety of persons or property in the vicinity. Among the circumstances which may be considered in determining whether such alarm is warranted is the fact that the person takes flight upon appearance of a law enforcement officer, refuses to identify himself/herself or manifestly endeavors to conceal himself/herself or any object. Unless flight by the person or other circumstances makes it impracticable, a law enforcement officer shall, prior to any arrest for an offense under this Section, afford the person an opportunity to dispel any alarm which would otherwise be warranted, by requesting him/her to identify himself/herself and explain his/her presence and conduct. No person shall be convicted of an offense under this Subsection if the law enforcement officer did not comply with the preceding sentence, or if it appears at trial that the explanation given by the person was true and, if believed by the law enforcement officer at the time, would have dispelled the alarm.
    The loitering laws are adult curfews after a certain time. The idea seems that they want to prevent crime. However they have used it as a means to prevent illicit/criminal behaviors during day time.
    They could use the word to criminalize you for everything. Example: Leo:" sir, why are you idly meandering around?" Citizen:" I am enjoying the cool summer breeze and the full moon." Leo: :"Sorry sir, you can't do that with a gun on your hip. You must go home. You are loitering." Citizen:" You mean if I didn't have a gun on my hip I wouldn't be loitering?" Leo:"That's right. In fact anything you may be doing in public, could be loitering." Citizen:"You mean, if I was looking at a rack of summer clothes for sale on the side walk, I could be loitering?" Leo:"Yes and no. It depends on what mood I am in."

    So you see the loitering laws could be used to disarm a citizen also. give me a break. I can't walk on main street at midnight with a pistol or not?

  9. #9
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    loi·ter verb \ˈlȯi-tər\

    : to remain in an area when you do not have a particular reason to be there
    Uhh? So, does the particular reason have to be approved by the cop?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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