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Thread: How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment

  1. #1

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    How the NRA Rewrote the Second Amendment

    I post this article:

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...l#.U4JuBHJdUaA

    not because I agree with it. I do not. However, I do admire Mr. Waldman and the Brennan Center, believe him to be a serious scholar, and see this as a summary of a serious scholarly work he is about to publish.

    I am hoping that some of you historically minded hulks will look at this, and give me some citations regarding where Mr. Waldman goes off the tracks. I confess not to be a scholar of these details, merely a reader of scholars.

    Having read some of the advocacy pieces coming out of the most prominent pro-gun organizations regarding politics in the last few years, I no longer find them to be a credible source for data on these issues. Citations to independent, reliable sources is always appreciated.

    Last edited by The Donkey; 05-25-2014 at 06:50 PM.

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    The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun. Today, millions believe they did. Here’s how it happened.

    Read more: http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...#ixzz32m6DXtff


    Maybe they read the words of the 2nd amendment? Hmmmm...

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    LOl....yea because the people meant something other than the people.....
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  4. #4
    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    The Founders never intended to create an unregulated individual right to a gun.
    It's a good, too, as that would certainly not be successful. Only God can create 'rights.'
    Advocate freedom please

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    The book is crap.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    LOl....yea because the people meant something other than the people.....
    And "shall not be infringed " meant something else as well!
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Regular Member DrakeZ07's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    It's a good, too, as that would certainly not be successful. Only God can create 'rights.'
    Well, if you're one of those people who believes in an omnipotent, invisible, immortal, sky-person, who is all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-powerful, yet refuses to exercise such abilities; then sure, why not.

    As for us realists, the rights of man, are derived from common-sense, and a common foundation of what is right, and what is wrong, while protecting the weak from the strong, and balancing out the needs of the many, with the needs of the one.

    I derive my right to marry a person of the same-sex, from the perspective that I have a right to marry someone of the opposite-sex, which is based on equal treatment, and following the one guideline that predates all societies, religions, and races; the 'Golden' rule. -- Same for where I derive my right to self-defense, and my right to provide myself with a means to fulfill the aforementioned right; Common sense, and understanding say that what's mine, is mine, and I have a duty to protect what is mine, from anyone who seeks to make what is mine, into something that is no longer mine.

    See? that makes much more sense than saying a magical, invisible, all-knowing, all-powerful, possibly autistic person who lives in the sky, bestowed upon me the right to do this, and that, but also wants me to keep someone else from doing the same thing.
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    Regular Member stealthyeliminator's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    Well, if you're one of those people who believes in an omnipotent, invisible, immortal, sky-person, who is all-knowing, all-seeing, and all-powerful, yet refuses to exercise such abilities; then sure, why not.

    As for us realists, the rights of man, are derived from common-sense, and a common foundation of what is right, and what is wrong, while protecting the weak from the strong, and balancing out the needs of the many, with the needs of the one.

    I derive my right to marry a person of the same-sex, from the perspective that I have a right to marry someone of the opposite-sex, which is based on equal treatment, and following the one guideline that predates all societies, religions, and races; the 'Golden' rule. -- Same for where I derive my right to self-defense, and my right to provide myself with a means to fulfill the aforementioned right; Common sense, and understanding say that what's mine, is mine, and I have a duty to protect what is mine, from anyone who seeks to make what is mine, into something that is no longer mine.

    See? that makes much more sense than saying a magical, invisible, all-knowing, all-powerful, possibly autistic person who lives in the sky, bestowed upon me the right to do this, and that, but also wants me to keep someone else from doing the same thing.
    I'm glad you finally found another opportunity to bring attention to the fact that you're gay. I hadn't seen a derailment of that nature in quite some time. Hopefully we won't have to wait as long for the next one.
    Advocate freedom please

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    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    I'm glad you finally found another opportunity to bring attention to the fact that you're gay. I hadn't seen a derailment of that nature in quite some time. Hopefully we won't have to wait as long for the next one.
    It is quite consistent with the subject book's restatement of conventional history for peculiar purposes.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

  10. #10
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DrakeZ07 View Post
    snip.

    As for us realists, the rights of man, are derived from common-sense, and a common foundation of what is right, and what is wrong, while protecting the weak from the strong, and balancing out the needs of the many, with the needs of the one.

    snip
    ah, but as Marx stated, " Religion is the sigh of the oppressed creature, the heart of a heartless world, and the soul of soulless conditions. It is the opium of the people." and without this so called religion, we wouldn't have the behaviour regulation agreed to by those common sense realists who put the differentiation into the foundation of right and wrong ~ our laws!
    http://www.credong.org/why-society-needs-religion.php

    and keep plugging, one day it will occur.

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    your post made me smile, thanks
    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-26-2014 at 09:55 AM.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    I did n't read the article, I will later, getting ready for a walk about. But the NRA has indeed rewrote the second amendment. They have successfully changed it from a right to a privilege where one must ask the government permission to exercise "right" to defend from tyranny from them.

    Makes about as much sense into using a beehive for a sexual gratification device.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    there is a genuine confusion amongst the populous between the NRA and its mission and the lobbying side, NRA-ILA, that is chartered to:

    quote The Institute for Legislative Action (ILA) is the lobbying arm of the NRA. Established in 1975, ILA is committed to preserving the right of all law-abiding individuals to purchase, possess and use firearms for legitimate purposes as guaranteed by the Second Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. unquote

    for the whole ILA song and dance: http://www.nraila.org/about-nra-ila.aspx

    the NRA, founded in 1871, leads the world in providing LE and civilian shooting sports training in rifle, shotgun, and pistol.
    http://www.nrahq.org/history.asp

    let's not throw the baby out with bathwater while we are organization beating and bashing as we thump our chests and strike our war drums.

    especially since i am not sure why this tabloid was generated except to promote the writer's new book release?
    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-26-2014 at 11:05 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    And "shall not be infringed " meant something else as well!
    +1

    Apparently "free state" doesn't mean what it means either.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member F350's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Donkey View Post
    I post this article:

    http://www.politico.com/magazine/sto...l#.U4JuBHJdUaA

    not because I agree with it. I do not. However, I do admire Mr. Waldman and the Brennan Center, believe him to be a serious scholar, and see this as a summary of a serious scholarly work he is about to publish.

    I am hoping that some of you historically minded hulks will look at this, and give me some citations regarding where Mr. Waldman goes off the tracks. I confess not to be a scholar of these details, merely a reader of scholars.

    Having read some of the advocacy pieces coming out of the most prominent pro-gun organizations regarding politics in the last few years, I no longer find them to be a credible source for data on these issues. Citations to independent, reliable sources is always appreciated.

    The best advice I can give you is to find a copy of "THAT EVERY MAN BE ARMED" by Stephen P. Halbrook

    http://www.amazon.com/That-Every-Man...y+man+be+armed

    Or for quick free reading pleasure check out this link...

    http://www.constitution.org/2ll/2ndschol/2nd_index.htm

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