Thoughts on helping to normalize open carry

Again I ask, why do you want to hide?

Instead of running scared for MDA, we should be standing our ground in the fight. For all the talk of standing your ground in a physical attack, gun owners sure as a pansified bunch when it comes to the fight for hearts and minds.

I've said it before, MDA, and gun control advocates in general, have gone rabid. They are constantly lying. Instead of hiding from the spotlight, we should be standing tall in it. We should take video cameras with us and talk to the locals, post the videos on Youtube for all the world to see that the BS MDA is spewing is just that, BS. No one is scared, just a bunch of bedwetters from out of state funded by a billionaire.

Texas primary runoff voters yesterday just got redder. Heard Rep nominee for Lt Gov-Patrick today and it was great. Sounded like his buddy Ted Cruz. Don't think Strauss w/b in charge of house anymore.

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Jack House said:

Again I ask, why do you want to hide?

Instead of running scared for MDA, we should be standing our ground in the fight. For all the talk of standing your ground in a physical attack, gun owners sure as a pansified bunch when it comes to the fight for hearts and minds.

I've said it before, MDA, and gun control advocates in general, have gone rabid. They are constantly lying. Instead of hiding from the spotlight, we should be standing tall in it. We should take video cameras with us and talk to the locals, post the videos on Youtube for all the world to see that the BS MDA is spewing is just that, BS. No one is scared, just a bunch of bedwetters from out of state funded by a billionaire.

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Characterize their calls for a change (and my agreement) "hiding" if you like but those two organizations have been quite visible. Additionally, the chairman of the Senate committee charged with examining Texas gun laws said the same (in summary, you have our attention & support now please stand down and let us do the legislative work without friendly fire) at the end of the hearing.

You'll have to ask members of the Legislature yourself since I can't speak for them but my opinion is that MDA and other formal anti-2A groups don't have much support. Most members are pro-gun and every shooting seems to be accompanied by statements in support of folks being able to more easily defend themselves not in favor of gun control. My advice would be to ignore MDA and similar groups rather than focus on them. It is not they who are preventing greater freedom in Texas.

My objective is to expand gun rights in Texas. I hate that we have to march down the field one first down at a time, but history has shown that this is the most effective way. If Lt. GOV.-to be Patrick, Speaker Straus, and Gov.-to be Abbott announced tomorrow that constitutional carry was coming to TX this session no matter what, no one would be happier than I. Unfortunately for us, at least 1 of the 3 seems like he needs to be persuaded that any type of OC is worth supporting. Given that, I'll take whatever approach I can that yields a positive result.

SA-TX

HPmatt said:

Texas primary runoff voters yesterday just got redder. Heard Rep nominee for Lt Gov-Patrick today and it was great. Sounded like his buddy Ted Cruz. Don't think Strauss w/b in charge of house anymore.

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Please let me know the cause for that optimism? I agree Patrick is an improvement but why do you think Straus won't be Speaker?

Maybe I'm looking at it from a different perspective... and I'm offering my unasked for advice so please feel free to tell me to shut up if folks are so inclined...

Perhaps what is needed is to carry long guns often and in many places by many people... and let it be known to legislators that the easiest way to get folks to stop open carrying long guns is to make handgun open carry legal. Stress that requiring folks to pay for a permit to carry is a form of discrimination against those who cannot afford the fees and expenses involved .....

And do not cave to groups like MDA...... but confront them and their lies head on because giving so much as an inch strengthens their position and weakens yours.

Or just tell me to shut up since I'm in Michigan and not Texas.

All of this discussion is happening because of the MDA attack, whether you want to admit it or not, we're all allowing them to frame the discussion. The change of policy from OCT, the internal attacks on each other, all is in response to MDA.

Jack House said:

All of this discussion is happening because of the MDA attack, whether you want to admit it or not, we're all allowing them to frame the discussion. The change of policy from OCT, the internal attacks on each other, all is in response to MDA.

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Not in my case. I've been posting here about OC and improving 2A rights in TX long before the incident and probably before they were founded.

In my opinion, the have very little influence with members of the legislature. What has held us back in the past was: lack of support from TSRA (fixed), lack of awareness by legislators (fixed), a few powerful members not in favor (unknown until we know if Straus will be speaker & who he will appoint as chairman), and other high-profile contentious issues consuming available session time (redistricting, budget stuff, Wendy Davis's abortion filibuster, etc. We are well-positioned not to repeat those this session).

Since I believe that the above are the real challenges we face, I choose to ignore MDA and other such groups.

SA-TX said:

The results speak for themselves. Speaker Straus, a Republican who has the gavel due to more Democratic support than to his own party, appointed Democrat Joe Pickett chairman of the committee that heard the OC bill. It never got a vote in committee. The 2A community knows this but average Texas voters may not.

Until Straus leaves the speakers post, we are dealing with someone who is not a conservative but wields enormous power. Could the Republican caucus solidify behind someone else and defeat him? Sure but there are some R members who benefit from his Speakership. One member has announced plans to challenge him and we'll see how that goes.

Given these circumstances, how do you propose that we process?

On the Senate side, Lt. Gov.-nominee Dan Patrick I highly likely to be an ally and Gov. Greg Abbot would sign an OC bill, but we have to get something through the House.

SA-TX

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Then stop siding with MDA and campaign against those you claim are stopping unlicensed carry. If they are working against it is at your behest.

Jack House said:

Way too much text to say "hey maybe we should carry black powder instead of long guns."

To that I say no. Do what you want, I'll support you. But I'm not going to.

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This^^!

Look - we either support all rights or we don't, it's that simple people! If you find yourself saying, "well I support the right to lawfully carry pistols but not... x, y, or z types of legal firearms", then you do not support the 2A period! This is akin to saying "I support free speech, but only if you say the things I want you to, when I tell you to!"

To the OP - Texas is - well Texas, a unusual creature always. Carrying BB guns is an invitation for scorn or much, much, worse. Nothing worse than bringing a "Toy" fire extinguisher to a REAL fire! Cap & ball pistols maybe a work-around in Texas, but how many are going to spend the $200+ to skies the limit, to buy one and then the: powder, primers/caps, balls, patches, lube, holsters, etc... that will be needed to carry one daily? My guess, not many at all.

Bikenut said:

Maybe I'm looking at it from a different perspective... and I'm offering my unasked for advice so please feel free to tell me to shut up if folks are so inclined...

Perhaps what is needed is to carry long guns often and in many places by many people... and let it be known to legislators that the easiest way to get folks to stop open carrying long guns is to make handgun open carry legal. Stress that requiring folks to pay for a permit to carry is a form of discrimination against those who cannot afford the fees and expenses involved .....

And do not cave to groups like MDA...... but confront them and their lies head on because giving so much as an inch strengthens their position and weakens yours.

Or just tell me to shut up since I'm in Michigan and not Texas.

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Well said Sir! We could use more like you here in AZ!:monkey

Bikenut said:

Maybe I'm looking at it from a different perspective... and I'm offering my unasked for advice so please feel free to tell me to shut up if folks are so inclined...

Perhaps what is needed is to carry long guns often and in many places by many people... and let it be known to legislators that the easiest way to get folks to stop open carrying long guns is to make handgun open carry legal. Stress that requiring folks to pay for a permit to carry is a form of discrimination against those who cannot afford the fees and expenses involved .....

And do not cave to groups like MDA...... but confront them and their lies head on because giving so much as an inch strengthens their position and weakens yours.

Or just tell me to shut up since I'm in Michigan and not Texas.

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I don't know about that strategy, but I do know that I'm tired of the lies, misinformation, the bullying by MDA.

Long gun OC no more scares people than handgun OC. I'm ready for that myth to be busted.

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Jack House said:

I don't know about that strategy, but I do know that I'm tired of the lies, misinformation, the bullying by MDA.

Long gun OC no more scares people than handgun OC. I'm ready for that myth to be busted.

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I disagree, unlicensed carry(long gun) scares the pay for privilege industry.

WalkingWolf said:

I disagree, unlicensed carry(long gun) scares the pay for privilege industry.

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And rightfully so, it is a HUGE business. Not only for the Feds/States, but the firearms market in general. Trainers (many), love the permission slip system. Holster/gun/accessories makers all market to the CC/permit crowd. They make lots of money from them.

SA-TX said:

Additionally, the chairman of the Senate committee charged with examining Texas gun laws said the same (in summary, you have our attention & support now please stand down and let us do the legislative work without friendly fire) at the end of the hearing.
SA-TX

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Please cite. Honestly I don't believe he said anything of that nature.

WalkingWolf said:

Then stop siding with MDA and campaign against those you claim are stopping unlicensed carry. If they are working against it is at your behest.

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I'm not siding with MDA and I'm working to get a licensed OC bill through the legislature whether Straus is speaker or not.

One more time - based on the information I'm getting, MDA has no influence in Austin. No other anti group does either because most members are pro-2A. They will certainly be against any OC bill but their opposition won't matter. What COULD sink a bill is for OC long gun protests to create a backlash from average Texans. This is my interpretation of what Sen. Estes said at the end of the hearing. He hears us, he agrees with us, but he'd like us to stand down a bit so a bill can be moved.

This is a win for all: A) some form of non-antique OC of handguns would be legal, B) if we get the Disorderly Conduct statute fixed, that won't be an excuse to detain OCers whether long or short gun.

Crawl, walk, run. Unlicensed OC isn't going to happen this session. Are you aware that no unlicensed OC bill has even been written by a member? 150 House members, 31 Senators and 0 unlicensedOC bill ever (as far as I'm aware). The bills that have failed in the last two sessions were licensed OC. I'm with you; I'd like unlicensed OC but is isn't possible at this time. Therefore I choose what is over nothing.

SA-TX

stealthyeliminator said:

Please cite. Honestly I don't believe he said anything of that nature.

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Watch the hearing and judge for yourself. That's what I did.

SA-TX

SA-TX said:

Watch the hearing and judge for yourself. That's what I did.

SA-TX

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That is not what we do on OCDO! When asked for cite it is YOUR responsibility to provide as are the rules of the site.

SA-TX said:

Watch the hearing and judge for yourself. That's what I did.

SA-TX

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As WalkingWolf said, that is not proper protocol. Let me humor you, though.

If you are referring to this (http://tlcsenate.granicus.com/MediaPlayer.php?clip_id=8421) hearing, I watched most of it live and the rest of it later. Like I said, I don't recall hearing him say anything to that effect. I'm about to watch the last 10 minutes of it again now. I suspect I'll be disappointed, or actually not disappointed, depending on how you look at it.
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Just watched the last 10 minutes. Senator Estes said no such thing within the 10 minutes leading up to the gavel dropping, ending the hearing. Perhaps you imagined it. On the plus side, I got to listen to some great testimonies again on my search to ascertain the validity of your claims.

WalkingWolf said:

That is not what we do on OCDO! When asked for cite it is YOUR responsibility to provide as are the rules of the site.

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I'm giving you my opinion about what Sen. Estes said, not a direct quote. I don't believe that violates site rules.

SA-TX said:

I'm giving you my opinion about what Sen. Estes said, not a direct quote. I don't believe that violates site rules.

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Then provide us with the statement that you are interpreting so that we can decide for ourselves whether or not your interpretation is valid? Or are you just going to point us to a, what, 8 and 1/2 hour hearing and say "go find it"