now sonic and chile's join the ban

since9 said:

And WALLETS, kids, spouses, family, friends, kids parties, special get-togethers, business lunches, midnight runs...

With half of America owning firearms and two-thirds supporting the right to keep and bear arms, their decision is financial suicide.

The more they push, the more Constitution-respecting Americans will push back, primarily by simply going elsewhere. The competitors of those 8 establishments win big, while "The Crazy 8" lose even bigger.

Click to expand...

boy are you wrong. you know how many gun owners still go to those places? A LOT. and they are blaming the OC crowd for it. the OC movment is working? explain to me how OC is working if people are telling you that you cant bring your gun into their establishment. some of you people dont get it. a business is obviously in the business to make money. they arnt a debate room. this issue is obviously starting to annoy a lot of people because they are publicly making statments about it. its even annoying the people who are gun savy like you, and you are pushing them away from any form of OC. if you are ticking off your own people who werent mad before, you might wanna rethink what you are doing.

g21sfpistol said:

boy are you wrong. you know how many gun owners still go to those places? A LOT. and they are blaming the OC crowd for it. the OC movment is working? explain to me how OC is working if people are telling you that you cant bring your gun into their establishment. some of you people dont get it. a business is obviously in the business to make money. they arnt a debate room. this issue is obviously starting to annoy a lot of people because they are publicly making statments about it. its even annoying the people who are gun savy like you, and you are pushing them away from any form of OC. if you are ticking off your own people who werent mad before, you might wanna rethink what you are doing.

Click to expand...

You continually rely on one of the biggest fallacaous arguments that exist. One the statist and apologist for an ever increasing government use constantly. May I recommend reading Bastiat's "What is seen and what is not seen".

WW pointed what possibly may be another outcome, one that can't seem to penetrate the thick layer hubris and ignorance you have installed around yourself.

sudden valley gunner said:

You continually rely on one of the biggest fallacaous arguments that exist. One the statist and apologist for an ever increasing government use constantly. May I recommend reading Bastiat's "What is seen and what is not seen".

WW pointed what possibly may be another outcome, one that can't seem to penetrate the thick layer hubris and ignorance you have installed around yourself.

Click to expand...

i need a cite that its the biggest fallacious argument. otherwise its just an opinion that hold no fact with no education study behind it

g21sfpistol said:

i need a cite that its the biggest fallacious argument. otherwise its just an opinion that hold no fact with no education study behind it

Click to expand...

Hint, the cite is in my response, you don't even have to read the book to understand what fallacy I am talking about.

Yes, Solus, let's discuss the truth.


At every one of the OCT events, they have reported friendly and welcoming atmospheres. No one has complained and no one was frightened.

The only ones making a huge deal out of those events are MDA and people like you. Those are the facts.

Not getting it..........

I have to say that I do not get the need to sport your Shotty, AR/AK in public. I just don't. I am for OC as much as the next but for HANDGUNS only. These people are only hurting the OC cause if you will. If you think different then you are lying to yourself. Next someone will tell me it is comfortable and convenient. RIGHT................Just because you can does not mean you should. OC of properly holstered handguns has not been the cause of any of these things. These long gun OCers are attention ****** IMO. They are killing our message. Most gun owners I know agree with that assessment as well.

My point is that sheeple will react and not the way we would like. I do not think that we in the OC camp need to adopt the philosophy of shoving our ideals down everyones throat. It really is sickening to see these businesses going this route but I do not blame them.

I am sure there will be those that disagree, but I do not care. (Flame proof suit on) I like AND WILL CONTINUE TO VISIT these establishments and they are slowly removing their support of OC and it is ALWAYS the same crap as the cause. Spin it how you wish, but I am right. As sad as it is to say this, I would support a FULL BAN on any type of carry of long guns as it would actually HELP the overall movement.

All I know is that if you're participating in this stupidity then you are actually part of the problem, not the solution. Somebody please show me an example of OC of long guns actually changing the public's perception of OC. After all we are fighting a perception and NOTHING else.

sudden valley gunner said:

Hint, the cite is in my response, you don't even have to read the book to understand what fallacy I am talking about.

Click to expand...

Guys - this is about open carry in TEXAS! So why do these chains feel the need to institute nation wide ban (sort of bans - asking guns be left outside of the businesses)? For those with little knowledge of how state legislatures work... I'll try to cliff note it for you. Option 1 - buy them! Option 2 - make them pay attention another way. OCT took option 2. They now have the Texas legislature considering amending the law to allow the OC of modern pistols instead of just LONG guns & cap and ball revolvers. So for those asking where the "gain" is ...that is a good start.

Until the public is made aware of just how unsafe these places really are, either by a media campaign or informational demonstrations, they (sonic, crap in the box, etc...) will continue to play the "for our customers safety" ploy. Which is the complete opposite of what they are really doing, which is ....nothing in regards to security.

You want a safe environment? Then give law abiding citizens the right to carry period. Or pay for a armed security staff. Simple choice I'd say.

Arizona is a live "test case" for how allowing lawful citizens to carry has dramatically decreased violent crime. That drop is over 35% since constitutional carry started in July of 2010, according to crime statics #'s quoted by CJ in the video that most didn't watch. And for you CC folks in the crowd here's a article with similar #'s from a CC proponent from early 2012.
http://www.ctrguns.com/arizona-crime-rate-dramatically-drops/

SO - the real question should be ...why do these places want to make their businesses even more dangerous? The same applies to schools and other criminal empowerment zones.

gearup said:

I have to say that I do not get the need to sport your Glocks or Berettas in public. I just don't. I am for carry as much as the next but for CONCEALED only. These people are only hurting the carry cause if you will. If you think different then you are lying to yourself. Next someone will tell me it is comfortable and convenient. RIGHT................Just because you can does not mean you should. Carry of properly CONCEALED handguns has not been the cause of any of these things. These OCers are attention ****** IMO. They are killing our message. Most gun owners I know agree with that assessment as well.

My point is that sheeple will react and not the way we would like. I do not think that we in the CC camp need to adopt the philosophy of shoving our ideals down everyones throat. It really is sickening to see these businesses going this route but I do not blame them.

I am sure there will be those that disagree, but I do not care. (Flame proof suit on) I like AND WILL CONTINUE TO VISIT these establishments and they are slowly removing their support of CC and it is ALWAYS the same crap as the cause. Spin it how you wish, but I am right. As sad as it is to say this, I would support a FULL BAN on any type of carry of guns as it would actually HELP the overall movement.

All I know is that if you're participating in this stupidity then you are actually part of the problem, not the solution. Somebody please show me an example of OC actually changing the public's perception of carry. After all we are fighting a perception and NOTHING else.

Click to expand...

FTFY hypocrite.

You did not fix anything. You wish you did, but ............no. Thanks for playing, now try again.

And I OC every day in Virginia.

gearup said:

You did not fix anything. You wish you did, but ............no. Thanks for playing, now try again.

Click to expand...

If you can not see the glaring hypocrisy in your comments, why would I bother? Everything I would respond to that garbage with has already been said by handgun OC advocates to CC advocates. Probably yourself included. Therefore you should already know what I have to say making it an exercise in futility.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Somewhere in my original post I said that I do not care.

gearup said:

Somewhere in my original post I said that I do not care.

Click to expand...

Right, you'd much rather cling to your biases and bigotry. That's cool.

FreeInAZ said:

Guys - this is about open carry in TEXAS! So why do these chains feel the need to institute nation wide ban (sort of bans - asking guns be left outside of the businesses)? For those with little knowledge of how state legislatures work... I'll try to cliff note it for you. Option 1 - buy them! Option 2 - make them pay attention another way. OCT took option 2. They now have the Texas legislature considering amending the law to allow the OC of modern pistols instead of just LONG guns & cap and ball revolvers. So for those asking where the "gain" is ...that is a good start.

Until the public is made aware of just how unsafe these places really are, either by a media campaign or informational demonstrations, they (sonic, crap in the box, etc...) will continue to play the "for our customers safety" ploy. Which is the complete opposite of what they are really doing, which is ....nothing in regards to security.

You want a safe environment? Then give law abiding citizens the right to carry period. Or pay for a armed security staff. Simple choice I'd say.

Arizona is a live "test case" for how allowing lawful citizens to carry has dramatically decreased violent crime. That drop is over 35% since constitutional carry started in July of 2010, according to crime statics #'s quoted by CJ in the video that most didn't watch. And for you CC folks in the crowd here's a article with similar #'s from a CC proponent from early 2012.
http://www.ctrguns.com/arizona-crime-rate-dramatically-drops/

SO - the real question should be ...why do these places want to make their businesses even more dangerous? The same applies to schools and other criminal empowerment zones.

Click to expand...

Those businesses are banning are not looking at the seen or the unseen......

Jack House said:

If you can not see the glaring hypocrisy in your comments, why would I bother? Everything I would respond to that garbage with has already been said by handgun OC advocates to CC advocates. Probably yourself included. Therefore you should already know what I have to say making it an exercise in futility.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Click to expand...

I joined here specifically to state my opinion on the OC of long guns. I've read a few threads and I'm really flabbergasted by the attacks on those who oppose people brandishing long guns in public.

I'm hunted all my life and carried both professionally and as a non-public safety officer as John Q Citizen. I've never even considered taking a long gun into an establishment or even taking it out of my vehicle until I either got to the range, where I was going to hunt or returning home to put it up. Why in the heck would anyone do so other than because I can or just wanting their picture taken. Leave it in your vehicle. What the heck are you doing other than scaring people? There are loonies out there. I'm not saying those who carried long guns are but how in the heck does one know these days? It would make me nervous and justifiably so. It's way out of the norm and serves no purpose but to give people the impression those who do so are nut jobs.

These kinds of actions are aw shoots which wipe out 100 attaboys. Those who are pro-carry understand. Those who are anti-OC do not. But those on the fence are going to be put off by this nonsense. And the adverse publicity surrounding this hurts all who are strong proponents of the 2nd amendment and wish to carry.

All I can say is act like you have some common sense and be sensitive to the fact people don't know if you're a loon out on a shooting rampage or not brandishing what they perceive are 'assault weapons'.

Most people don't get wigged out by seeing someone open carrying a hand gun. It's something we see daily for the most part. We do not see citizens walking around wearing long guns. That's what you see when you go to some third world countries.

What's my support for this position? The response of the public and a whole lot of common sense. While I support anyone's right to have the opposite view and would defend the right to have it to the death, it's absolute stupid hogwash to think people walking around with long guns are helping are cause.

I don't carry for other people, and would imagine that many Texans do not either. I ignore those that shiate their britches when they see a gun, any type of gun. If it bothers or skeers you look the other way, hide in the closet, but don't tell me what to do! I am liable to tell you to go procreate yourself.

I am so sick of PC biatches trying to tell others how to live! Go pound sand!

jobberone said:

I joined here specifically to state my opinion on the OC of long guns. I've read a few threads and I'm really flabbergasted by the attacks on those who oppose people brandishing long guns in public.

Click to expand...

1. Every one here opposes brandishing. Carrying a weapon and brandishing are two different things.
2. What about all the attacks on people that support LGOC?

jobberone said:

II'm hunted all my life and carried both professionally and as a non-public safety officer as John Q Citizen.

Click to expand...

1. Identifying yourself as a Fudd right out of the gate really isn't going to win you any friends here. :uhoh:
2. What is a 'non-public safety officer' and why do we care?

jobberone said:

I've never even considered taking a long gun into an establishment or even taking it out of my vehicle until I either got to the range, where I was going to hunt or returning home to put it up. Why in the heck would anyone do so other than because I can or just wanting their picture taken.

Click to expand...

There are a million and infinity reasons someone might decide to carry a long gun openly. Maybe they want to walk to the range. Maybe they do it for self defense, as that is the only legal way for those without a CHL in Texas can carry. Maybe it's none of your business.

jobberone said:

Leave it in your vehicle.

Click to expand...

No.

jobberone said:

It would make me nervous and justifiably so.

Click to expand...

That's a personally problem.

jobberone said:

It's way out of the norm and serves no purpose but to give people the impression those who do so are nut jobs.

Click to expand...

Ya gotta start sometime for it to become "the norm."

jobberone said:

These kinds of actions are aw shoots which wipe out 100 attaboys.

Click to expand...

What's an "attaboy?"

jobberone said:

But those on the fence are going to be put off by this nonsense.

Click to expand...

*********

jobberone said:

And the adverse publicity surrounding this hurts all who are strong proponents of the 2nd amendment and wish to carry.

Click to expand...

It only does so because people like you are too busy telling everyone how they are so wrong and damaging everything instead of, oh I don't know, maybe... EXPOSING THE LIES FOR WHAT THEY ARE. Ahem.

jobberone said:

All I can say is act like you have some common sense and be sensitive to the fact people don't know if you're a loon out on a shooting rampage or not brandishing what they perceive are 'assault weapons'.

Click to expand...

Most people don't care, but shhh, can't let the truth be told. :uhoh:

jobberone said:

Most people don't get wigged out by seeing someone open carrying a hand gun. It's something we see daily for the most part. We do not see citizens walking around wearing long guns. That's what you see when you go to some third world countries.

Click to expand...

Do you realize how completely and utterly retarded this statement is? We're talking about Texas. OC of handguns is illegal here. No one ever sees anyone other than a cop OC. So late next year when we get handgun OC, you gonna make these same arguments against it and in favor of LGOC because it would be the more common mode of carry?

jobberone said:

What's my support for this position? The response of the public and a whole lot of common sense.

Click to expand...

By common sense, I believe you mean the lies of MDA, and response of the public you must mean the imaginary make believe public in your head.

jobberone said:

While I support anyone's right to have the opposite view and would defend the right to have it to the death, it's absolute stupid hogwash to think people walking around with long guns are helping are cause.

Click to expand...

They're doin a hell of a lot more than you are, buddy.

lots of new people and inputs on this topic. To some of those (gearup and jobberone) your responses "suggest" that you do not understand that Open Carry of a HANDGUN in Texas is ILLEGAL! Currently, (at least as I understand it) you can only Open Carry Long Guns and Black Powder Pistols. (I don't think you were advocating they open carry handguns illegally into these establishments as being a better way to promote open carry?) This is part of what the groups in Texas are trying to draw attention to. To me it is incredible that the laws in Texas are that way and I would like to think we can all agree they need to be changed. The best way to affect that change.....well, don't think we are going to get a concensous on that. I can believe the media has distorted and blown some stuff out of proportion but I also find things in statements from our side that don't quite add up, like:
- We were welcomed with open arms - The video I saw, supposedly shot by a member of the group, didn't give me that impression
- We called ahead and had permission to come (Then why didn't they say that to the manager (on the video shot by members on our side)?)
- There were conflicting "statements" attributed to the OC leadership (which may not be correct) that the folks were a "rebel" group, then were fully embraced and supported and acted in a totally appropriate matter. I find the second "statement" issued jointly to be more genuine but can anyone tell me if the inital statements were indeed fabricated/misquoted/misinformed/a mistake?

WalkingWolf said:

I don't carry for other people, and would imagine that many Texans do not either. I ignore those that shiate their britches when they see a gun, any type of gun. If it bothers or skeers you look the other way, hide in the closet, but don't tell me what to do! I am liable to tell you to go procreate yourself.

I am so sick of PC biatches trying to tell others how to live! Go pound sand!

Click to expand...

What an incredibly ridiculous thing to say. You don't care. I'm not afraid of guns or people that carry but admitting I would be nervous about someone toting a long weapon around in plain sight is plain common sense. Look at all the mass shooting lately.

Obviously you've never had a weapon pointed at you nor fired on you or you wouldn't be taking a macho macho man cavalier attitude about it.

And I can't tell you how much I resent your condescending, rude and obnoxious comment. "If I'm 'skeered' look the other way." I'd be watching that person until he or I were out of firing range. Of course it will make many people very nervous some to the point of avoiding an establishment.

If you can't counter a point without resorting to rude and asinine comments then just put me on ignore. We don't need to make things worse for ourselves with a very vocal minority with money behind it trying to take our guns or whatever they can do to us.

There is no legitimate reason to walk around in public with a long weapon on you. Not unless you have it in a case walking into and out of a gun store or the like.

Jack House said:

1. Every one here opposes brandishing. Carrying a weapon and brandishing are two different things.
2. What about all the attacks on people that support LGOC?


1. Identifying yourself as a Fudd right out of the gate really isn't going to win you any friends here. :uhoh:
2. What is a 'non-public safety officer' and why do we care?


There are a million and infinity reasons someone might decide to carry a long gun openly. Maybe they want to walk to the range. Maybe they do it for self defense, as that is the only legal way for those without a CHL in Texas can carry. Maybe it's none of your business.


No.


That's a personally problem.


Ya gotta start sometime for it to become "the norm."


What's an "attaboy?"


*********


It only does so because people like you are too busy telling everyone how they are so wrong and damaging everything instead of, oh I don't know, maybe... EXPOSING THE LIES FOR WHAT THEY ARE. Ahem.


Most people don't care, but shhh, can't let the truth be told. :uhoh:


Do you realize how completely and utterly retarded this statement is? We're talking about Texas. OC of handguns is illegal here. No one ever sees anyone other than a cop OC. So late next year when we get handgun OC, you gonna make these same arguments against it and in favor of LGOC because it would be the more common mode of carry?


By common sense, I believe you mean the lies of MDA, and response of the public you must mean the imaginary make believe public in your head.


They're doin a hell of a lot more than you are, buddy.

Click to expand...

You got to be kidding me. Common sense is understanding that in today's environment with multiple mass shootings that carrying around a long gun in public is not a bright idea. It's not PC. Why in the heck would you want to give people more reason to be anti-gun? Just to prove you can walk around with it?

And what use is a long gun in defending yourself? Carry your pistol with you. That's plenty enough without scaring people by walking around with a weapon they believe is an assault weapon.