now sonic and chile's join the ban

jobberone said:

You got to be kidding me. Common sense is understanding that in today's environment with multiple mass shootings that carrying around a long gun in public is not a bright idea. It's not PC. Why in the heck would you want to give people more reason to be anti-gun? Just to prove you can walk around with it?

And what use is a long gun in defending yourself? Carry your pistol with you. That's plenty enough without scaring people by walking around with a weapon they believe is an assault weapon.

Click to expand...

Let's look at common sense, OK?

There never has been a incident, robbery, or crime committed in the presence of OCT members.

There are no significant numbers of crimes committed across the nation of ANY type of open carry committed.

Mass shootings have typically taken place in locations that are gun free zones.

The restaurant shootings that have taken place have been in places where there were NO open carriers.

Phobias of another are not the responsibility of the public at large.

A common sense person knows they can only control their own behavior.

An idiot believes they can control the behavior of others.

Commons sense dictates that guns are inanimate objects that are incapable of harm without manipulation. As that they have no magical powers to turn common sense decent people into murderers.

And here is the biggest one of all, bad people wishing to do harm typically conceal, and they do not care if some hoplophobe idiot is skeered of guns. They do care that they might get shot in the commission of a crime.

Got anymore dumb claims there Buckaroo?

jobberone said:

You got to be kidding me. Common sense is understanding that in today's environment with multiple mass shootings that carrying around a long gun in public is not a bright idea. It's not PC. Why in the heck would you want to give people more reason to be anti-gun? Just to prove you can walk around with it?

And what use is a long gun in defending yourself? Carry your pistol with you. That's plenty enough without scaring people by walking around with a weapon they believe is an assault weapon.

Click to expand...

The last "mass shooting" involved a handgun, a knife and a car -- not a long gun.

And what are law abiding citizens to do when their state prohibits the OC of handguns, but allows the OC of long guns? How else is a 2nd Amendment advocate supposed to exercise his or her right?

By the way -- what state do YOU live in, that gives you the right to pontificate on what should and should not be allowed just based on Political Correctness?

JamesCanby said:

The last "mass shooting" involved a handgun, a knife and a car -- not a long gun.

And what are law abiding citizens to do when their state prohibits the OC of handguns, but allows the OC of long guns? How else is a 2nd Amendment advocate supposed to exercise his or her right?

By the way -- what state do YOU live in, that gives you the right to pontificate on what should and should not be allowed just based on Political Correctness?

Click to expand...

I'm guessing the state of confusion...

jobberone said:

You got to be kidding me. Common sense is understanding that in today's environment with multiple mass shootings that carrying around a long gun in public is not a bright idea. It's not PC. Why in the heck would you want to give people more reason to be anti-gun? Just to prove you can walk around with it?

And what use is a long gun in defending yourself? Carry your pistol with you. That's plenty enough without scaring people by walking around with a weapon they believe is an assault weapon.

Click to expand...

Common sense, PC, scaring people?!?! Wow, that's a lot of anti-gun rhetoric. Shannon...is that you, dearie?!?!:shocker:

JamesCanby said:

The last "mass shooting" involved a handgun, a knife and a car -- not a long gun.

<snip>

Click to expand...

Well, we need a law saying that a person can have either a knife or a gun but not both ... that will fix this issue.

Whew! Dodged another bullet.

Antis ... they are funny.

IIRC long gun usage in murders was way down on the list of knives, handguns, and blunt objects.

Yet these morons are scared of long guns~~Obama would be proud!

Is that the best you people can do?

Someone used a knife and a car in a mass killing so we ignore all the others. I can see that all this is way over your heads. Most of the mass shootings lately have involved rifles. The point being not that rifles are 'bad' but people don't like others walking around with rifles.

It's pointless to try to have a conversation with an ignorant fool. I can call my ex-wife and get a bunch of shyte and called names.

jobberone said:

Is that the best you people can do?

Someone used a knife and a car in a mass killing so we ignore all the others. I can see that all this is way over your heads. Most of the mass shootings lately have involved rifles. The point being not that rifles are 'bad' but people don't like others walking around with rifles.

It's pointless to try to have a conversation with an ignorant fool. I can call my ex-wife and get a bunch of shyte and called names.

Click to expand...

And you would defend yourself with handgun against a rifle? :lol::lol::lol:

All the more reason to carry a tool capable of stopping a lunatic, no matter what they are using. But the facts are people are killed with knives more than rifles. But you don't care about those people, because it does not fit your agenda.

You have come to the wrong board to drum up support for MDA.

And the biggest point you are oblivious to is that NO ONE has been injured or killed when members of OCT were on scene carrying long guns. The facts speak louder than irrational fears.

jobberone said:

Is that the best you people can do?

Someone used a knife and a car in a mass killing so we ignore all the others. I can see that all this is way over your heads. Most of the mass shootings lately have involved rifles. The point being not that rifles are 'bad' but people don't like others walking around with rifles.

It's pointless to try to have a conversation with an ignorant fool. I can call my ex-wife and get a bunch of shyte and called names.

Click to expand...

And you failed to answer that very simple question: In which state do you reside? That would tell us a lot about your attitude and acculturation. Why hide it?

Curious non gun user with questions.

Hi all,
I read a little bit about you guys in the popular media, so I took a look at the forum page today because I was curious to understand more about open-carry gun-owners' positions.

As a non-gun-user, I am honestly scared at the thought of seeing lots of people I don't know walking around wearing a large or small weapon openly. Obviously you guys encounter people like me every day and find this attitude very frustrating. I looked at Open Carry Texas's sites and I see that part of the goal is to get people used to seeing others wearing guns, so I figure that is part of the reason for the Chili's and Sonic protests.

My first question is, how would anybody know that a person carrying a gun is just a regular citizen exercising his or her right to self defense? It makes sense to me that you guys could be just out hunting and bringing your guns in because you don't want to leave them in your car, or just because hey, you're legally allowed to do so and what's the big deal. But walking down the street, I wouldn't have any way of knowing that you were a good guy. You could be a good person, or you could be mentally ill, intoxicated, or just have a hot temper. Or even get legitimately scared that you were under threat, but be mistaken, and have something unintended happen.

What do you guys do when you guys see other people carrying guns openly on the street? Do you generally feel pretty comfortable, or do you keep an eye on them until you feel that they are safe? Or a little of both?

Do you guys have to carry your permit and registration with you when you open-carry?

If you note that having your gun out scares others, how do you tend to respond to that? Do you kind of feel like, Get over it, not my problem, or do you just put it nearby but in a not so obvious place, or something else?

Also, is a semi-automatic weapon a legal long-gun in your states?

I guess that's enough questions for now. I understand that you guys may find a non OC person coming on here annoying and if so, no problem. But I am curious to hear.

FJones said:

Hi all,
I read a little bit about you guys in the popular media, so I took a look at the forum page today because I was curious to understand more about open-carry gun-owners' positions.

As a non-gun-user, I am honestly scared at the thought of seeing lots of people I don't know walking around wearing a large or small weapon openly. Obviously you guys encounter people like me every day and find this attitude very frustrating. I looked at Open Carry Texas's sites and I see that part of the goal is to get people used to seeing others wearing guns, so I figure that is part of the reason for the Chili's and Sonic protests.

My first question is, how would anybody know that a person carrying a gun is just a regular citizen exercising his or her right to self defense? It makes sense to me that you guys could be just out hunting and bringing your guns in because you don't want to leave them in your car, or just because hey, you're legally allowed to do so and what's the big deal. But walking down the street, I wouldn't have any way of knowing that you were a good guy. You could be a good person, or you could be mentally ill, intoxicated, or just have a hot temper. Or even get legitimately scared that you were under threat, but be mistaken, and have something unintended happen.

What do you guys do when you guys see other people carrying guns openly on the street? Do you generally feel pretty comfortable, or do you keep an eye on them until you feel that they are safe? Or a little of both?

Do you guys have to carry your permit and registration with you when you open-carry?

If you note that having your gun out scares others, how do you tend to respond to that? Do you kind of feel like, Get over it, not my problem, or do you just put it nearby but in a not so obvious place, or something else?

Also, is a semi-automatic weapon a legal long-gun in your states?

I guess that's enough questions for now. I understand that you guys may find a non OC person coming on here annoying and if so, no problem. But I am curious to hear.

Click to expand...

How do you feel about the police openly carrying their guns? If you are okay with that, why? Do you believe none of them can do wrong? They are regular people with feelings and the potential to go crazy as much as the other person. And the last time I checked, law enforcement people are not immune to doing criminal acts.

Actually, just change the word "CITIZEN" in your inquiry to "POLICE" and answer it honestly.

How does anybody know who is a good guy, or a bad guy, or who is concealed? My answer is by their actions, and past actions.

Bad guys typically conceal, restaurant shooters are typically lone. People who come to eat while armed are there to eat.

Your only safety in the case of bad guy is not the police, but in taking responsibility for your own safety. You can do this two ways, carry and protect yourself. Or be where people who are armed to protect themselves, no violent crime has ever taken place when OCT members were present. Crime around open carry of any type is rare across the country. The presence of guns on LAC make you more safe, not less safe.

Or you could just dial 911 when the bad buy comes and be chalk outline.

Bernymac said:

How do you feel about the police openly carrying their guns? If you are okay with that, why? Do you believe none of them can do wrong? They are regular people with feelings and the potential to go crazy as much as the other person. And the last time I checked, law enforcement people are not immune to doing criminal acts.

Click to expand...

Since 9/11 police have killed over 5,000 unarmed citizens. That is not taking into account citizens who have been maimed, beaten, or even in some cases raped. Criminals wearing a badge percentage match criminals percentage of the public. There are criminals in every profession.

WalkingWolf said:

Since 9/11 police have killed over 5,000 unarmed citizens. That is not taking into account citizens who have been maimed, beaten, or even in some cases raped. Criminals wearing a badge percentage match criminals percentage of the public. There are criminals in every profession.

Click to expand...

But, but, but, those are numbers that may be researched and verified as fact and not really addressing the "feeling" of the person answering the questions :lol:

Thanks for taking the time to answer to Bernymac and Whitewolf

To your question I do feel a certain amount of fear and intimidation around police, and I am aware of abuses by police and agree the uniform can be a disguise and they can power trip. I generally assume they are there to help, but I address them very respectfully. Still I would feel more intimidated by seeing a solo citizen walking around with a gun than I would by a cop. Even though police can be jerks, they do wear a uniform that signifies that somebody we elected felt they were ok to protect the public safety with their guns, and they are supervised and well trained in using them. I generally feel police protect citizens more often than harm them and if I were in danger I'd run for them (though I'd feel the opposite if I were not white.)

I understand your point about the lone gunman profile, but it doesn't really make me feel much better. If open carry were more common, why wouldn't a solo person enjoy a nice burger after going to the firing range on the way home? For a solo citizen, I just don't have any visual ID that that person is "supposed" to be safe like I do with a cop.

Is part of what you like about open carry is that it is sort of an advertisement . . . "hey don't mess with me?" ie as much people feel intimidated by police, they might feel just as intimidated by a person openly carrying a gun?

Also, I am still curious how you feel when you see another person you don't know openly carrying a weapon - do you immediately assume, oh, they're probably cool because they are announcing they have a gun, or do you check them out? Or do you just generally not trust anybody, whether you see a gun or not - like you're more 'always on the lookout and prepared' type of person?

If you didn't happen to have your gun on you and you saw an open carrier, esp. with a semi-automatic, would you be more cautious? Also, what if the person was not the same race as you?

I guess in my mind, I am forgetting that open carry seems to apply only to long guns right now too. I don't think I'd be quite as nervous seeing a regular hunting rifle - don't really know.

And finally, do you guys have to carry your permits with you when you open carry - is that part of the law.

Thanks so much for answering my questions.

Bernymac said:

How do you feel about the police openly carrying their guns? If you are okay with that, why? Do you believe none of them can do wrong? They are regular people with feelings and the potential to go crazy as much as the other person. And the last time I checked, law enforcement people are not immune to doing criminal acts.

Actually, just change the word "CITIZEN" in your inquiry to "POLICE" and answer it honestly.

Click to expand...

Walking Wolf - not White Wolf!

Sorry about that.

I don't see a person with a openly carried gun any different then I see anybody, after all they may have a concealed gun.

Almost everybody I see is a different race then I am, or some of the same. I am of mixed backgrounds including NA, Irish, Roman, and Moor. I see people not races. Most people clearly look different then I do, and still they approach to talk or thank or ask questions, and that has been all races.

The time to worry about bad people is when they are bad. And realize that the odds of being attacked while open carrying are very very very small. You see bad guys look for victims, people who are intimidated by the sight of a gun. People who are unarmed, people who trust the police will come save their bacon. Know anybody like that?

FJones said:

Hi all,
I read a little bit about you guys in the popular media, so I took a look at the forum page today because I was curious to understand more about open-carry gun-owners' positions.

As a non-gun-user, I am honestly scared at the thought of seeing lots of people I don't know walking around wearing a large or small weapon openly. Obviously you guys encounter people like me every day and find this attitude very frustrating. I looked at Open Carry Texas's sites and I see that part of the goal is to get people used to seeing others wearing guns, so I figure that is part of the reason for the Chili's and Sonic protests.

My first question is, how would anybody know that a person carrying a gun is just a regular citizen exercising his or her right to self defense? It makes sense to me that you guys could be just out hunting and bringing your guns in because you don't want to leave them in your car, or just because hey, you're legally allowed to do so and what's the big deal. But walking down the street, I wouldn't have any way of knowing that you were a good guy. You could be a good person, or you could be mentally ill, intoxicated, or just have a hot temper. Or even get legitimately scared that you were under threat, but be mistaken, and have something unintended happen.

What do you guys do when you guys see other people carrying guns openly on the street? Do you generally feel pretty comfortable, or do you keep an eye on them until you feel that they are safe? Or a little of both?

Do you guys have to carry your permit and registration with you when you open-carry?

If you note that having your gun out scares others, how do you tend to respond to that? Do you kind of feel like, Get over it, not my problem, or do you just put it nearby but in a not so obvious place, or something else?

Also, is a semi-automatic weapon a legal long-gun in your states?

I guess that's enough questions for now. I understand that you guys may find a non OC person coming on here annoying and if so, no problem. But I am curious to hear.

Click to expand...

Welcome, not the best thread to jump into with your question. You can probably find several similar questions or a whole section on the topic "Why Open Carry" that will have a much more focused response. That said, here is my answer to your questions:
- First I live in Virginia. Laws very from state to state so it is important to know what your local laws are. My experiences have all occured in Virginia and North Carolina.
- Honestly, 80% of the people I pass do not notice the firearm in the holster on my hip. My "ACTIONS" draw more attention or make me less noticable. If I am minding my own buisness going about my buisness people don't give me a second thought. That 20% that do notice might not notice right away and by then my actions (or lack of abnormal ones) give them a moments pause and then they realize they are not in any sort of immenint danger and go on with their buisness. A rare few may turn up their nose or make a distainful noise but I don't let it bother me and I definately don't rise to their bait and make a scene. I ignore them the same as I do those who might not like seeing people of different backgrounds and skin colors being friends. Their issue and I don't make it mine.
- when I see another walking down the street, I make eye contact, nod, and thank them for exercising their 2nd ammendment rights. If they show an interest in a brief conversation, I may ask them what they carry, what their experiences have been, if they have heard of Open Carry. org, invite them to our next local gathering for food and fellowship. Pretty much the same thing I would do when I am at work (and prevented from having a means of self-defense) and I a person open carrying. As a gun owner, I tend to be able to detect concealed carry weapons more easily than others. When I notice someone concealed carrying I do watch them and observe their actions and take action to distance myself from them "IF" I percieve there to be a risk. I do the same thing when I drive down the highway and someone is driving in a way that attracts my attention (can't stay in lane, excessive speed, etc.). A lot of honest decent folks Conceal Carry but so do alot of Bad folks. I observe and try and see if I can discern which they are. I don't make it a habit of pointing out to them that I can tell they are carrying because it is none of my buisness. If I end up in a conversation with them (about my open carry firearm) I "may" ask them what they are carrying and if they want to know will tell them how I could tell and any suggestions (constructive) I may have to improve their concealment but that is case by case.
- in Virginia we do not need a permission slip to exercise our 2nd amendment right openly. There is a restriction on the capacity of a shot gun magazine and on the number of rounds in a center fire rifle OR handgun in certain cities. (http://leg1.state.va.us/cgi-bin/legp504.exe?000+cod+18.2-287.4) There are age restrictions and ways to legally lose your right to carry as well as places where you can not carry even with a concealed handgun permit. I have been to our state capital and to the offices of our legislators in the Virginia General Assembly building with my open carry firearm on my side (there were a bunch of us on lobby day) and there were no "incidents" that I was aware of. We get judged by our behavior more than by what we are carrying.
- having my gun in a holster on my hip and having my gun "out", are two very different things. If I have my gun "out" the other person is not the only one scared and it would not be me they were scared of. If you are really asking how do I respond if people notice I am open carrying and appear apprehensive I normally give them a big smile, say hi, and let them see I am as sane and normal as they are. I have had many an enjoyable discussion with folks that start with that initial awkwardness but an open mind and willingness to ask a question (normally it is "why are you carrying"?) I don't hide it or put it somewhere else because it makes someone uncomfortable. There are alot of folks walking around in outfits that I think are inappropriate or make me uncomfortable (google walmart people for examples) but that doesn't give me the right to demand they change or even give me the right to offer my opinion on their style choices.

Stay safe

FJones said:

...And finally, do you guys have to carry your permits with you when you open carry - is that part of the law...

Click to expand...

To the first part of your post (which I've not quoted), my response is: There are no guarantees in life, except that all of ours will eventually end.

To respond to the second part of your post, you can find a number of maps on this site, including this one which will answer your question: http://www.opencarry.org/?page_id=103

I keep checking that Walmart site for my picture, but I must be doing something wrong. So far nobody has bothered to take it, maybe I am breaking cameras.