OC Freedom
Regular Member
:lol:
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now sonic and chile's join the ban
- Thread starter solus
- Start date
:lol:
To WalkingWolf, Nightmare, BB62, and wrearick
Ha! Zing, WalkingWolf.
Thanks for answering my questions to all of you. I appreciate the direction to other parts of the site and especially wrearick's patient personal explanation of why you guys do what you do.
Ha! Zing, WalkingWolf.
Thanks for answering my questions to all of you. I appreciate the direction to other parts of the site and especially wrearick's patient personal explanation of why you guys do what you do.
sudden valley gunner
Regular Member
Wow, accusing the ex leo that he doesn't know what he is talking about because he has never had a gun pointed at him......hahahhahaaaaaaa.....what fallacy school did he go to? Since I can't counter your logic I must make something up and make it personal about you.....hahahaha.
Don't you love it when people try to claim to be pro gun and then list why they don't want to see them?
Don't you love it when people try to claim to be pro gun and then list why they don't want to see them?
How did this feeling come about? How were you conditioned to feel that way about people who were hired to serve the public trust? How did you come to the conclusion that they are supervised and well trained. You were somehow conditioned to have these “feelings”. Why do you believe that the police is there to protect you? When your family is in mortal danger from a deranged individual intent on snuffing the life out of your loved ones, will the police be there in time to protect you? A little introspection and perhaps a little more responsibility on your part to think freely and logically is in order.
Your “feel much better” dilemma is no one else’s responsibility but yours. Please do not rely on others to make you feel better. Smoke weed if you have to, but do not look to others for that feeling.
Seriously, you have to ask yourself where these “feelings” are coming from. I doubt that any reason given will make you feel any better. You are so conditioned to be afraid of an inanimate object that you believe anyone with a gun is intimidating. Imagine yourself walking alone on the street and coming towards you is a huge hulking guy ZZ Top beard, full of tattoos and body piercings that would make a colander envious. Would you get intimidated?
Situational awareness aside…I feel nothing. No assumptions. Just a fellow human being going about his/her day. Your question about trusting anybody is one way of you trying to intimate that open carriers are a paranoid bunch, but I’ll give you the benefit of the doubt. Keep in mind, you are the one who is paranoid about a person openly carrying a firearm. Everyone should have a modicum of situational awareness. At the very least, it keeps you from being complacent and your mind sharp.
No. Just because you would does not mean everybody else would be.
There are those feelings again.
No permit needed to open carry in Nevada.
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Jack House
Regular Member
Hello and welcome.
People like you are rare, they are the exception. Most people don't notice, or don't say anything. Of the people that do notice and say something, most are supportive, asking how they can carry too.
Those were not actually protests. They were just a group of people meeting up and having lunch.
Well, not being very exposed to it, it is understandable that you feel this way. Which is one of the things we all hope to change. You see, people that are just going about their business openly carrying a firearm are typically the good guys. Carrying a gun openly can draw attention of the police and criminals do not like that attention. We don't want the attention either, but we're not afraid of it like criminals, because we are not. Someone that wants to do you harm with a gun is going to hide that gun for as long as possible.
When you see someone carrying, you should ask yourself: are they pointing the gun at someone? If they are not, then you can safely assume they are law abiding citizens just going about their business.
As far as them thinking they're in danger and just start shooting everything that moves, well that is so unlikely to happen, you have a better chance of getting struck by lightning on a clear sunny day. We take carrying seriously, no one here actually wants to shoot anyone.
Actually, the truth of the matter is that of the two competing ideologies when it comes to carry. we are probably the ones most likely to walk away from a perceived threat. This is because we carry for deterrent first. Meaning we have chosen open carry specifically to deter criminals from attacking us. We do not want to be placed in a situation that requires deadly force to protect ourselves and loved ones, so we have taken an extra step to prevent that.
Personally I can tell you that OC works, I have seen first hand just how quickly a criminal will change their mind about attacking you when they see you are carrying a gun. I'd be happy to share some of those experiences with you if you are so inclined.
Nothing, I do nothing. They go about their business and I go about mine. I treat them like I would anyone else.
There is no registration in Texas and only long gun open carry is legal in Texas. It also the only way to carry without a permit.
Yes, they are legal here in Texas. And no, you haven't annoyed me so far.
Your visual cue is that they're not trying to hurt you, they are non-aggressive and simply eating a burger.
We are not trying to intimidate people as much as deter criminals. Though it might not be obvious, there is a difference. A criminal does not have to be intimidated or scared to be deterred. They just have to acknowledge the fact attacking someone with a gun is likely to end unfavorably for them.
No. I'm not racist.
In Texas, just like NY, we are not allowed to OC handguns, but we are able to: 1) buy them, 2) sell them, 3) carry them concealed, and 4) use them to protect ourselves, our families, and our homes. So those that are licensed to conceal carry - 700,000 as of 12/31/13 - makes me feel better - Texas population of 26.5 million (not counting 3 million illegals, terrorists and foreign criminals, and probably another 100,000 children coming across this year in hope of amnesty from the idiot Republicans in Congress). I generally w/b concerned with someone in how they act - normal or 'abbie normal'.
It is 'liberating' to travel through southern states (NIC SC and FL) that allow OC, but typically same mindset at work - how's someone acting, vs are they OC.
Inherent trust in our fellow man. Assuming one is not behaving without facts is prejudicial. You can observe behavior and generally tell who is behaving. If someone is not carrying in a safe manner, then something is amiss and caution must be taken. A safe manner would be slung or holstered. A gun in the hand- literally- is when you have to be concerned. But overall, most people who intend to do harm will try to use concealment and surprise.
While I dislike guns vs. cars comparisons, here's one that is useful. How can you tell if a driver is drunk or just a bad driver? Behavior behind the wheel. What do you do? How do you know a safe driver from an unsafe one? Behavior behind the wheel. What do you do? While you might find it true after a collision (that person is unsafe), you don't ask everyone in their cars before they get on the freeway, do you? Now, pure antis will refute this example with misdirection- the states allow you to drive through licensing, therefore it makes sense to license gun owners the same way. The problem with that statement is the state does a horrible job at licensing. Over 30,000 deaths a year. And how many accidents?
But I digress. Fearing that every person with a gun is the next Adam Lanza or James Holmes is illogical. Over 90 million gun owners in the US, if I recall correctly, with an estimated 310 million guns. In 2010, there were roughly 11,000 gun-related homicides, and the number has gone down further. At the most favorable metric, 1 homicide = 1 murderer, you're looking at 11,000 killers that are "gun owners" (based on possession, not actual purchases, which we'll just assume for the argument). That's .012% of the gun owner population that commits homicide, but actually it's a lot less. If everyone who carried a gun was someone intent to do harm, we would have a much higher homicide rate.
I check and see what they're carrying. I'm a private person generally, so I go about their business. They go about theirs.
I believe some states are different. In WA, you must have your Concealed Weapons Permit when you are only carrying concealed or loaded in a vehicle. I think there are one or two other exceptions.
Pretty much not my problem. Being afraid of a lawful activity doesn't make much sense.
Semi-automatic rifles are legal. I don't believe any state has banned/prohibited ownership of semi-automatic rifles.
You have to go on behavior. Maybe it's easy for me, but I can usually spot "crazy" or agitated people. Also, to get a little personal, you have a fear of your common man. You assume a person with a gun is going to do bad things. Why? Because that's what most people have been conditioned to believe through media. Criminals don't broadcast their weapons until they commit the crime.
No, it's to show those with evil intentions that I am armed and will protect myself. Intimidation by police-or anyone- is based on actions. It happens regardless of possession of a weapon.
Answered above.
Nope. Go about my business as usual.
If a permit is required to open carry, it's not much of a right, is it? WA state doesn't require it. There should be no permit to exercise a right.
Elm Creek Smith
Regular Member
One should always address everyone very respectfully; it just makes life easier. Addressing other people respectfully is the old honey and vinegar thing. You'd be surprised how many erstwhile "bad guys" react favorably to correction or suggestions to amend their behavior if one does so without snarling or calling them "dirtbag." When working, I call just about everyone "sir" or "ma'am," and people seem to appreciate that even when I'm telling them to pull up their pants or leave the building or to corral their children.
As for people railing against OCT, since only long guns and black powder pistols can be carried openly there without a license, I understand the open carry "events." It kind of makes me want to load up my "New Model Army Revolvers," buckle up my gun belt, put on my spurs, and visit Landry's in Galveston.
cloudcroft
Campaign Veteran
"It kind of makes me want to load up my "New Model Army Revolvers," buckle up my gun belt, put on my spurs, and visit Landry's in Galveston." -- Elm Creek Smith
I just recently moved from Galveston...
Instead of Landrys -- another "eating establishment" that might or might not be added to the "We don't want gun-people here" list after your "scary" OC visit there (not sure where Tilman Fertita stands on the OC issue...maybe someone should interview him) -- perhaps a walk along the Seawall with these 2 guys would make a more enjoyable (and less "risky") afternoon outing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo3XAwMcLAc
For our non-Galveston-savvy readers here, just some local trivia: Besides owning Landry's Seafood, local big-name/businessman Tilman Fertita also owns the San Luis Resort, the IHOP next to it, and what you see in the video's background: the Pleasure Pier -- built on the same pier that previously had the Flagship Hotel on it (1965-2008), which was destroyed by Hurricane Ike in 2008.
Happy OC-ing there in the Big G!
P.S. The guy walking with Shawn -- Ethan -- is from Santa Fe, TX...not the OTHER (& better-known) Santa Fe in NM. Santa Fe, TX, is about 20 miles from Galveston, so he IS a Texan (i.e., not a "foreign instigator/activist" imported from NM). ;-)
...no offense intended, NM! Just kidding with you...
I just recently moved from Galveston...
Instead of Landrys -- another "eating establishment" that might or might not be added to the "We don't want gun-people here" list after your "scary" OC visit there (not sure where Tilman Fertita stands on the OC issue...maybe someone should interview him) -- perhaps a walk along the Seawall with these 2 guys would make a more enjoyable (and less "risky") afternoon outing?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eo3XAwMcLAc
For our non-Galveston-savvy readers here, just some local trivia: Besides owning Landry's Seafood, local big-name/businessman Tilman Fertita also owns the San Luis Resort, the IHOP next to it, and what you see in the video's background: the Pleasure Pier -- built on the same pier that previously had the Flagship Hotel on it (1965-2008), which was destroyed by Hurricane Ike in 2008.
Happy OC-ing there in the Big G!
P.S. The guy walking with Shawn -- Ethan -- is from Santa Fe, TX...not the OTHER (& better-known) Santa Fe in NM. Santa Fe, TX, is about 20 miles from Galveston, so he IS a Texan (i.e., not a "foreign instigator/activist" imported from NM). ;-)
...no offense intended, NM! Just kidding with you...
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Haven't been to Galveston in a many years but Gaido's on the seawall and on South Main in Houston were favorite places.
Dad graduated Ball High in the 1940s. Was in Kemah a while back - enjoyed eating oysters fresh off the boats.
Fwiw, all of the area from the back of Galveston, including Friendswood, Pearland, Clear Lake City, Dickinson and Kemah had flooding from 5' to 10' of water when Hurricane Carla came through Houston in 1961. That area is now completely developed - would expect repeat hurricane and faster runoff would do $10s of billions of damage and who knows how many people killed.
cloudcroft
Campaign Veteran
@ HPmatt:
Yes, fresh seafood...one of the positives of Coastal Living. A negative is those pesky hurry-canes! ;-)
I was in my apt. during Hurricane Ike: The whole island was under water and part of the Gulf of Mexico, even if only briefly. CAT-2 hurricane (1mph short of CAT-3) winds-wise but a CAT-4 storm surge. Got VERY deep on nearby Tiki Island and Bayou Vista. Only reason my car and MC weren't destroyed is I parked them on a 12' high hill just before the storm struck and the water only got 10' so I had 2' to spare. Most cars parked on ground level on the island were destroyed by storm surge, and once under SALT water, they're a total loss.
Of course, Ike wasn't as bad as the worst storm ever for Galveston -- the 1900 one -- but still the worst they (we) had since then, a "100 year storm" exactly 108 years later.
To make this at least "gun-related" (if not On Topic -- sorry) we provided our own "armed security" afterwards for at least a couple of weeks. In fact, the Galveston Police Department cops didn't bother us OC-ing handguns -- yes, even in Texas -- IF we stayed on the apt. complex's property. Plenty of looting the news didn't cover (unfortunately, not all the street-trash took the free evacuation buses to an also free shelter in places like Austin, TX), but most good citizens were armed and watching out for their neighborhoods. I was riding my MC around town taking some pics of the damage a few days after the storm and in one neighborhood, was confronted by 2 old guys, one had an AK and another a riot shotgun. Wanted to know what I was doing on their turf. Once they found out I wasn't some looter, they relaxed...but it could get real scary out there if they thought otherwise (I was armed, too, but CC-ing).
Plenty of signs up in most neighborhoods saying "You loot, we shoot." And you'd better believe those people were serious.
Great "training" for being on your own with no fire department, police or anything else as most places/stores were destroyed and/or had no power to operate (like gas stations). There was no city water, either, as underground pipes were damaged. Extremely hot, humid and lots of mosquitoes. A sort of mini SHTF "war zone" situation, if you will. In fact, it reminded me of Vietnam...except for all the shooting!
Having a guns & ammo along with one's Emergency Supplies (food & water AND insect-repellant) was quite comforting...
P.S. Things have changed big-time at Ball High since the 1940s -- and not for the better. :-(
Yes, fresh seafood...one of the positives of Coastal Living. A negative is those pesky hurry-canes! ;-)
I was in my apt. during Hurricane Ike: The whole island was under water and part of the Gulf of Mexico, even if only briefly. CAT-2 hurricane (1mph short of CAT-3) winds-wise but a CAT-4 storm surge. Got VERY deep on nearby Tiki Island and Bayou Vista. Only reason my car and MC weren't destroyed is I parked them on a 12' high hill just before the storm struck and the water only got 10' so I had 2' to spare. Most cars parked on ground level on the island were destroyed by storm surge, and once under SALT water, they're a total loss.
Of course, Ike wasn't as bad as the worst storm ever for Galveston -- the 1900 one -- but still the worst they (we) had since then, a "100 year storm" exactly 108 years later.
To make this at least "gun-related" (if not On Topic -- sorry) we provided our own "armed security" afterwards for at least a couple of weeks. In fact, the Galveston Police Department cops didn't bother us OC-ing handguns -- yes, even in Texas -- IF we stayed on the apt. complex's property. Plenty of looting the news didn't cover (unfortunately, not all the street-trash took the free evacuation buses to an also free shelter in places like Austin, TX), but most good citizens were armed and watching out for their neighborhoods. I was riding my MC around town taking some pics of the damage a few days after the storm and in one neighborhood, was confronted by 2 old guys, one had an AK and another a riot shotgun. Wanted to know what I was doing on their turf. Once they found out I wasn't some looter, they relaxed...but it could get real scary out there if they thought otherwise (I was armed, too, but CC-ing).
Plenty of signs up in most neighborhoods saying "You loot, we shoot." And you'd better believe those people were serious.
Great "training" for being on your own with no fire department, police or anything else as most places/stores were destroyed and/or had no power to operate (like gas stations). There was no city water, either, as underground pipes were damaged. Extremely hot, humid and lots of mosquitoes. A sort of mini SHTF "war zone" situation, if you will. In fact, it reminded me of Vietnam...except for all the shooting!
Having a guns & ammo along with one's Emergency Supplies (food & water AND insect-repellant) was quite comforting...
P.S. Things have changed big-time at Ball High since the 1940s -- and not for the better. :-(
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Elm Creek Smith
Regular Member
Actually, the last time we were at Landry's we had a very enjoyable dinner. They don't have the dreaded "30-06" sign, just a very nice little sign spelling out the fines for carrying a handgun in their establishment without a license. Since Texas honors my Oklahoma Handgun License, my S&W Model 37 was discreetly concealed under my Hawaiian shirt. (My wife claims it is a symptom of a need to be noticed!) If I did open carry my BP revolvers into Landry's, or anywhere else, in my cowboy get-up, my wife would boycott me which is something I would regret.
Indeed...I've always thought those Hawaiian shirts scream "look at me"! :lol:
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
I have a friend, who' cousin, married to a woman, who knows a pro Hawaiian that is scared of Hawaiian shirts.
OC for ME
Regular Member
Don't go to chili's, food sucks in my view. I have a few local Mexican joints that serve far better food, at lower prices, with better service.
No impact to me, the Sonic in my town closed, nobody went to it. Besides, what is the point of going inside the store that is a drive-in.
I frequent local Mom & Pop shops. My money stays in my area where possible.
Anyway.....what folks outside of Texas are thinking/saying about OCT (Open Carry Texas) and their impact on national fast food joints is of little concern to me. If you value those fast food joints then frequent them.....it's a free country.
No impact to me, the Sonic in my town closed, nobody went to it. Besides, what is the point of going inside the store that is a drive-in.
I frequent local Mom & Pop shops. My money stays in my area where possible.
Anyway.....what folks outside of Texas are thinking/saying about OCT (Open Carry Texas) and their impact on national fast food joints is of little concern to me. If you value those fast food joints
then frequent them.....it's a free country.
WalkingWolf
Regular Member
And the actions and goals of OCT will not, and have not affected concealed carry. I wish they would stop whining.
AZRobert
Regular Member
I used to be you. I used to be worried about guns, I unconsciously gave them attributes. Then in the summer of 2012 I went into a gun store in Texas and I was looking at their guns. They were sexy, I'm just gonna admit that. I've also always had a historical love affair with the 1911. A few weeks later I made the decision to purchase my very first handgun. Then I went home and did research, I found OCDO, I looked up crime stats, I read forums, I read main stream news media. I did what I always do when something interests me, I research the holy hell out of it.
Then I realized something. Guns are just tools, they sit in a holster, or a safe or where ever and they do nothing by themselves. Yes a gun (when used) is capable of killing people, it's capable of causing harm. So is a car but we let 16 year olds drive them. I would say that a car is far more dangerous than a gun. The single biggest difference is that driving a car is not a right. Carrying a firearm is. I think this is why most people open carry, our country has a public culture/opinion that guns are bad and guns hurt people. The only way to affect a change in this regard is to expose people to guns in a positive setting. That means open carry. That means you see me going about my day being a regular normal polite human being while obviously carrying a gun.
My growing to love and carry guns went hand in hand with my "growing up" politically. I could not reconcile what certain people in our government say about guns, self defense, shootings and public safety with what information I found on my own and what my own brain told me. Food for thought, according to the FBI no gun control measure in our country has ever had a measurable effect on preventing gun crime. Also most gun control bills focus on semi-automatic rifles, most gun crimes are committed with hand guns. If your goal is to make people safe why would you not focus your efforts into the area that would have the most impact? Simple. They know that a concealed carry ban of handguns will gain absolutely no traction.
Statistically if you see someone open carrying a gun they are a good guy, simple as that. Mass shooters aren't carrying their guns, they are firing them. They also conceal their weapons before they use them.
Permit and registration laws vary from state to state, you'd need to be more specific about that question.
I do not respond to anyone whispering behind my back, the over exaggerated gasps I hear at times or the whispered frantic "he's got a gun!" I do however respond to anyone who comes up to me and asks me a polite question. I've had just as many people ask me why I'm carrying as give me compliments on my gun, or thank me for carrying.
I'm confused on your question about semi-automatic weapons.
since9
Campaign Veteran
Nope. Most (as in the vast majority of) people either don't notice, don't care, or respect the Constitution enough to respect the rights of others regardless of how they might personally feel. Although I've been OCing for more than four years, I have never had anyone leave my vicinity because I was carrying a firearm. I have had a lot of complements, though.
Very simple. Just ask this single question: Is the carrier engaging in unlawful behavior? If the answer is "yes," then they're "just a regular citizen exercising his or her right to self defense." If OC is legal, the weapon is holstered, and they're engaging in much the same behavior as others anyone would in that environment, then their behavior is lawful.
You have no way of knowing that anyone walking down the street is a good guy. Since criminals almost never OC, however, if the person you see walking down the street is carrying a properly-holstered firearm, chances are far greater than average they're a good guy.
Lots of what-ifs, but no substance. FBI crime stats show this just isn't the case. In fact, it's so NOT the case that similar to the above, if someone is carrying a properly-holstered firearm, chances are better than average their one of the sane ones.
Same thing I do when I see anyone walking down the street: I say, "Good afternoon!"
Seriously, OCers are the least of my worries in the overall priority of things.
No permit is required to OC in about 15 States. About thirty states do require a permit. Check the Maps area for details.
I notice a lot, yet have only noticed it making someone nervous on three occasions. Only one of those three did a lady approach me and say she doesn't like guns. I thought for a moment and said, "I understand you don't like guns. Frankly, I don't like criminals." We had a good laugh and chatted for about five minutes.
As for the other parts of your last comment, I have a legal responsibility to behave in a lawful manner. I have a social, moral, and ethical responsibility to further behave in a manner that won't cause undue alarm in others. However, federal courts have already ruled the mere presence of a firearm does not meet any legal test for cause of alarm or disturbing the peace. Regardless of whether I was armed, I would never walk up to a stranger and yell, "Hah!" right in their face, as that would cause undue alarm, and would probably break most laws against disturbing the peace. Carrying a firearm, however does not.
You're talking apples and oranges. The term "semi-automatic" refers to "a firearm which automatically reloads, but will only fire one round per trigger pull." The term "long-gun refers to the length of the barrel. In small arms, a long gun is designed to be fired braced against the shoulder, in contrast to a handgun.
Both handguns and long guns come in single action (SA), double action only (DAO), single action/double action (SA/DA). Both DAO and DA are referred to as "semi-automatic." In all cases, only one round fires per trigger pull.
single action (SA) - Squeezing the trigger only fires the weapon. It must be cocked by hand.
double action only (DAO) - Squeezing the trigger both cocks the weapon and fires it.
single action/double action (SA/DA) - The weapon can fire either way.
Not at all! Glad you asked.
JamesCanby
Activist Member
Just to be accurate, the bolded portion does not refer to revolvers. Revolvers in SA, DA or DAO only fire one round per trigger pull, but are not classified as semi-automatic. The term semi-automatic refers to a magazine-fed firearm that automatically cycles the action: ejects the spent casing, strips the next round from the magazine and chambers it, and cocks the hammer in preparation for the next trigger pull. A revolver depends on manual effort, either by cocking the hammer with the hammer spur, or by pulling the trigger, both of which rotate the cylinder to bring the next chamber under the firing pin and cocking, then releasing the hammer.
DWCook
Activist Member
I'm just going to throw my opinion out on this matter. The fact that businesses choose to ban firearms within their establishment is their decision. Let's not sit here and make a huge stink about something that is within every business right to allow and not allow certain things. If you don't like it then don't eat there, no reason to make an uprising about a few places who have different views on certain matters. I'm not here trying to make folks here mad, but considering I've noticed this particular subject always makes an uprising. It's a business who doesn't want weapons within, be an adult and just pick someplace else to eat.