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Thread: Public Relations, Texas, and the right to Open Carry

  1. #1
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    Public Relations, Texas, and the right to Open Carry

    Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

    My name is Mark Fiorino, and I am an open carry activist up here in Pennsylvania, where the OC of both long arms and handguns is not just legal, but in the last 5 years or so, has become significantly more normalized than it was previously.

    As someone who strongly believes in and practices on a daily basis the right to openly bear arms, I've been watching the news and following much of the stories that have been coming out of Texas. Obviously, the most recent notable stories, involving Chili's, Sonic, and other restaurant chains, have been all over the headlines lately, and after careful thought, I'd like to open a discussion, with the utmost of respect, that I feel should be carefully considered.

    I want to be perfectly clear - I entirely support your actions in openly carrying longarms as a part of exercising (what's left of) your rights to keep and bear arms. I understand what you are fighting for and I do not in any way believe that you should stop doing it. However, there is an effective way to go about things, and there is a counter-productive way.

    I am not going to sit here at my keyboard in Pennsylvania and tell you that what you are doing is counter-productive, because I am not there - I have not carried by your side, I have not spoken to your legislators, and I have not fought the fight that you are currently embroiled in. But, I would like for you to take a step back and look at how you are going about your activities. Are they helping, or are they hurting? Is there a better way to go about this so that you effect a more positive change?

    I will, however, tell you that from the outside looking in, anyone who does not fight this battle, or anyone who is unfamiliar/lacking an opinion on the topic of open carry is only seeing negativity as a result of your actions.

    For example, if you Google "Pennsylvania Open Carry," you will find information, legal articles, and news spots that reflect the law and the exercising of the right. There is very, very little on the first page of the search results which could be construed as negative. On the other hand, Googling "Texas Open Carry" returns the most recent news stories and Op-Eds (along with OCDO and a few Texas Open Carry forums and informational articles) which hardly paint your efforts in a positive light. You have to a dig a little bit to find a feel-good open carry article, or something that helps dis-spell the growing public perception that open carry people are "gun nuts."

    Again, I can't speak to what's happening in Texas, and I stand by you 100% in your efforts, but have you guys taken a moment to step back and look at a way to improve your public relations? How can you get the word out about what you're trying to accomplish, and to explain that it's a fight for rights and justice, instead of just showing up at places with your rifles unannounced?

    It seems like the MDA/Bloomburg nuts are following you around and capitalizing on your lost opportunities when it comes to awareness.

    Please, discuss.

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    As someone who strongly believes in and practices on a daily basis the right to openly bear arms <snip>

    Really? And then you post the rest?

    Then what about in other states where OC of rifles is OK AND they charge outrageous fees for pistol permits?
    I could see people pushing OC of rifles to effect lowering of permit fees or elimination of them all together.

    I love it when someone says that they support something and then turn around and ridicule people for doing something that they "support". That's great support. Its an anti argument (we support the 2nd amendment, heck we all own shotguns, but ....").

    So I would argue that the OP really does not support OC.

    My 2 cents.

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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    As someone who strongly believes in and practices on a daily basis the right to openly bear arms <snip>

    Really? And then you post the rest?

    Then what about in other states where OC of rifles is OK AND they charge outrageous fees for pistol permits?
    I could see people pushing OC of rifles to effect lowering of permit fees or elimination of them all together.

    I love it when someone says that they support something and then turn around and ridicule people for doing something that they "support". That's great support. Its an anti argument (we support the 2nd amendment, heck we all own shotguns, but ....").

    So I would argue that the OP really does not support OC.

    My 2 cents.
    It is the BUT theory~~I support this, BUT~~I support that, BUT.

    AND then the fools think they are immune from MDA, not realizing they are doing a incremental attack. As they do they watch the numpties turn on each other and they are too stupid to figure it out. When they win or lose in Texas they WILL pick another state. When they win or lose on a type of carry they WILL move to attack another type of carry. I can't get over how supposed 2A supporters are such fools.
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    i know for a fact this horse has been beaten to death elsewhere on the forum...er or so i read anyway...

    and your definition of an activist is ?

    i see on your utube videos is encounters with LEs which at first blush do not seem to be random encounters but rather perhaps instigated ones so perhaps you can enlighten me what doctrine or practice was accomplished that emphasizes direct vigorous action especially in support of or opposition to one side of a controversial issue.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 05-31-2014 at 04:23 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGTS19801 View Post
    Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.

    My name is Mark Fiorino, and I am an open carry activist up here in Pennsylvania, where the OC of both long arms and handguns is not just legal, but in the last 5 years or so, has become significantly more normalized than it was previously.

    As someone who strongly believes in and practices on a daily basis the right to openly bear arms, I've been watching the news and following much of the stories that have been coming out of Texas. Obviously, the most recent notable stories, involving Chili's, Sonic, and other restaurant chains, have been all over the headlines lately, and after careful thought, I'd like to open a discussion, with the utmost of respect, that I feel should be carefully considered.

    I want to be perfectly clear - I entirely support your actions in openly carrying longarms as a part of exercising (what's left of) your rights to keep and bear arms. I understand what you are fighting for and I do not in any way believe that you should stop doing it. However, there is an effective way to go about things, and there is a counter-productive way.

    I am not going to sit here at my keyboard in Pennsylvania and tell you that what you are doing is counter-productive, because I am not there - I have not carried by your side, I have not spoken to your legislators, and I have not fought the fight that you are currently embroiled in. But, I would like for you to take a step back and look at how you are going about your activities. Are they helping, or are they hurting? Is there a better way to go about this so that you effect a more positive change?

    I will, however, tell you that from the outside looking in, anyone who does not fight this battle, or anyone who is unfamiliar/lacking an opinion on the topic of open carry is only seeing negativity as a result of your actions.

    For example, if you Google "Pennsylvania Open Carry," you will find information, legal articles, and news spots that reflect the law and the exercising of the right. There is very, very little on the first page of the search results which could be construed as negative. On the other hand, Googling "Texas Open Carry" returns the most recent news stories and Op-Eds (along with OCDO and a few Texas Open Carry forums and informational articles) which hardly paint your efforts in a positive light. You have to a dig a little bit to find a feel-good open carry article, or something that helps dis-spell the growing public perception that open carry people are "gun nuts."

    Again, I can't speak to what's happening in Texas, and I stand by you 100% in your efforts, but have you guys taken a moment to step back and look at a way to improve your public relations? How can you get the word out about what you're trying to accomplish, and to explain that it's a fight for rights and justice, instead of just showing up at places with your rifles unannounced?

    It seems like the MDA/Bloomburg nuts are following you around and capitalizing on your lost opportunities when it comes to awareness.

    Please, discuss.
    Hi Mark, thank you for your thoughtful post. The major open carry organizations recently posted a new policy of not carrying long guns into restaurants or major chains that are likely to become targets of the control-groups like MDA, or at least not taking pictures inside of those businesses. So, I guess to answer your question, yes, we/they have taken a step back to look at ways to improve PR. Also I'd just like to clarify one point, and that is that it has been the policy for quite some time, at least for OCT, that we obtain permission from private businesses before OCing within those businesses, and let them know when we will be there so that they are expecting us and not surprised by the sudden appearance of rifles.

    Edit: By major open carry organizations, I meant those based in Texas and for Texas specifically. I also meant to post a link to the policy: http://opencarrytexas.wordpress.com/...-of-long-arms/

    "4) Do not go into corporate businesses without prior permission, preferably not at all
    6) Do not post pics publicly if you do get permission and are able to OC in a cooperate business"
    Last edited by stealthyeliminator; 05-31-2014 at 05:25 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Really? And then you post the rest?

    I love it when someone says that they support something and then turn around and ridicule people for doing something that they "support". That's great support. Its an anti argument (we support the 2nd amendment, heck we all own shotguns, but ....").

    So I would argue that the OP really does not support OC.

    My 2 cents.
    David,

    If that's what you got from my post, I must have not been clear. At no point did I mean to imply that "I support open carry butyou shouldn't do it." I simply meant to say, perhaps taking a moment to look at if you're doing it the most effective way would be valuable. There's an effective way to do things, and a counter-productive way of doing things.

    I staunchly support open carry, period.

    Quote Originally Posted by solus View Post
    i know for a fact this horse has been beaten to death elsewhere on the forum...er or so i read anyway...

    and your definition of an activist is ?

    i see on your utube videos is encounters with LEs which at first blush do not seem to be random encounters but rather perhaps instigated ones so perhaps you can enlighten me what doctrine or practice was accomplished that emphasizes direct vigorous action especially in support of or opposition to one side of a controversial issue.

    ipse
    I never instigate encounters. I mind my business and go about doing what I think is important - if I end up feeling like I need to record an encounter, I do.

    I was not looking to enlighten anyone. My goal was to ask whether or not anyone involved in this activism has taken a moment to look at the smaller aspects of the big picture here, and try to manage some of the negative fallout that seems to have been running rampant as a result of OCT's efforts. It seems, from the fourth post here, that this has in fact occurred, so my question has been answered.

    Quote Originally Posted by stealthyeliminator View Post
    Hi Mark, thank you for your thoughtful post. The major open carry organizations recently posted a new policy of not carrying long guns into restaurants or major chains that are likely to become targets of the control-groups like MDA, or at least not taking pictures inside of those businesses. So, I guess to answer your question, yes, we/they have taken a step back to look at ways to improve PR. Also I'd just like to clarify one point, and that is that it has been the policy for quite some time, at least for OCT, that we obtain permission from private businesses before OCing within those businesses, and let them know when we will be there so that they are expecting us and not surprised by the sudden appearance of rifles.

    Edit: By major open carry organizations, I meant those based in Texas and for Texas specifically. I also meant to post a link to the policy: http://opencarrytexas.wordpress.com/...-of-long-arms/

    "4) Do not go into corporate businesses without prior permission, preferably not at all
    6) Do not post pics publicly if you do get permission and are able to OC in a cooperate business"
    Thank you for your reply. I am looking over the news reports and media coverage from the event - I'm glad that some time was taken to look at how these efforts could be improved on a few fronts. Thanks for your work.

    Good luck, and carry on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ViperGTS19801 View Post
    David,

    If that's what you got from my post, I must have not been clear. At no point did I mean to imply that "I support open carry butyou shouldn't do it." I simply meant to say, perhaps taking a moment to look at if you're doing it the most effective way would be valuable. There's an effective way to do things, and a counter-productive way of doing things.

    I staunchly support open carry, period.

    <snip>
    Anytime a right is exercised some people will say "your should not do that, it hurts the cause". Its rubbish IMO.

    You offer no other statergery (copyright Geo. Bush lol) for open rifle carry. You clearly say, paraphrasing, "don't do it". Unless I misread your posting.

    I would think that if people simply carried rifles in states that require people to go through hoops and cash to get a concealed permit (maybe they don't have $500 to spend for "safety classes" and permit fees) it would push pistol permit fees to zero and x-out any silly safety class requirements.

    If the guberment wants to require permits (and I think that they cannot) they should make them free and if they want people to get permits then the state should give free "safety classes" if they want to require it and if states want to require permits then the states should give them out to people w/o requiring people to ID themselves.

    You cannot see the woods from the trees.

    Right now, people can open carry rifles w/o IDing themselves, without paying for permit, without any safety classes.
    And what is more effective weapon .. a pistol or a rifle; when I know trouble is afoot, I grab a longgun - not my handgun.

    (as for previous postings of "instigating encounters" ~ these folks' activities do not bother me in the least...if certain individuals want to fall into the trap (that's not entrapment) then they are the fools)
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 06-01-2014 at 01:47 AM.

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