OC fails again

g21sfpistol · May 31, 2014

http://gunssavelives.net/blog/both-...rriers-to-keep-guns-out-of-their-restaurants/

oh look, add two more to the list. OC still hurting our side of the gun debate. when will you people get the hint?

XD40sc · May 31, 2014

What the hell do these idiots think is going to happen when they carry their AR-15 into a restaurant?

g21sfpistol · May 31, 2014

id say the same for people OCing pistols. they encourage this kind of stupidity. it would be so bad if some of these people didn't act like jackasses.

JustaShooter · May 31, 2014

g21sfpistol said:
id say the same for people OCing pistols. they encourage this kind of stupidity.

You see, that's where you'd be wrong. People OCing handguns have not to the best of my knowledge ever caused a national chain to issue a statement banning guns in their establishments.

HPmatt · Jun 1, 2014

Sonics are franchises. Chili's are not. Former w/b up to local owner not corporate.

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g21sfpistol · Jun 1, 2014

JustaShooter said:
You see, that's where you'd be wrong. People OCing handguns have not to the best of my knowledge ever caused a national chain to issue a statement banning guns in their establishments.

actually theres plenty of youtube videos of OCers acting like complete idiots. if its OC of a rifle or a handgun doesnt matter now. its looked at as the same to the general public. you wanna know what the general public and business thing of OC? well you are starting to see it now with them banning carrying of guns in their stores. the OC community is forcing people to choose a side. they are obviously a business and want to make money. they arnt a battle ground for your opinion. please keep telling me how the OC movment is working, when businesses are taking time out of their day to publicly state they dont allow the carrying of guns in their stores anymore.

solus · Jun 1, 2014

actually nightmare, i am absolutely amazed, shocked even, G21 hasn't been heard from before this as there are multiple threads out here on this subject, even NM has a thread about the subject...

might wish to tread carefully G, tolerance is very thin...

i would liken the subject to a tsunami hitting this forum...

G21 and Steath would be worth buying popcorn and watching, how bout ChristCrusader and the challenger G21, that would be a title match as no other.

ipse

g21sfpistol · Jun 1, 2014

Nightmare said:
I particularly like public discussion forums on controversial topics, for forcing skunks out into the light of day, so that we can see the color of their stripes, black/yellow/white. Yes, issues must be forced, otherwise the majority remains silent.

I like the they came quote as well. In cali they came for your right to OC and it was taken. So what happens now? No one has done anything about it. Oh I forgot. The OC moment is working.

77zach · Jun 1, 2014

g21sfpistol said:
I like the they came quote as well. In cali they came for your right to OC and it was taken. So what happens now? No one has done anything about it. Oh I forgot. The OC moment is working.

I find your arguments unconvincing. OC of holstered handguns has obviously helped gun rights. This is easily seen by subscribing to and reading regular email updates from NRA-ILA, handgunlaw.us, keepandbeararms.com, etc, etc. We've seen Ok, Ar, Al, Ms, and Ks (just to name a few) have debates about OC in their legislatures, have the representatives say it's a salubrious thing, and loosen their laws by either legalizing it or clarifying it is perfectly legal to OC. Normalization through desensitization is very effective no matter what the cause is. The anti-gun side sees this. California was/is a lost cause.

Regardless, you're allowed to be wrong. Further, I don't even care if every private business doesn't want to serve OCers. As long as you don't want state law to restrict OC, I have no quarrel with you.

Grapeshot · Jun 1, 2014

Those that doubt or deny that OC advocates are winning the battle and the war need only look at the following map link. I can remember when there were not but a handfull of such states.

http://my.opencarry.org/?page_id=103

g21sfpistol · Jun 1, 2014

77zach said:
I find your arguments unconvincing. OC of holstered handguns has obviously helped gun rights. This is easily seen by subscribing to and reading regular email updates from NRA-ILA, handgunlaw.us, keepandbeararms.com, etc, etc. We've seen Ok, Ar, Al, Ms, and Ks (just to name a few) have debates about OC in their legislatures, have the representatives say it's a salubrious thing, and loosen their laws by either legalizing it or clarifying it is perfectly legal to OC. Normalization through desensitization is very effective no matter what the cause is. The anti-gun side sees this. California was/is a lost cause.

Regardless, you're allowed to be wrong. Further, I don't even care if every private business doesn't want to serve OCers. As long as you don't want state law to restrict OC, I have no quarrel with you.

So what is the point to OC if every business didn't allow it? What goal did u accoplish?

g21sfpistol · Jun 1, 2014

Grapeshot said:
Those that doubt or deny that OC advocates are winning the battle and the war need only look at the following map link. I can remember when there were not but a handfull of such states.

http://my.opencarry.org/?page_id=103

Yes thankfully states are allowing carry of some kind unlike back in the 90s. The states don't have to make the laws to crush carry of guns anymore. I like I just said above. If ever business decides to not allow the carrying of firearms what did you accoplish? If I can't carry my gun to where I'm going then what did you gain?

77zach · Jun 1, 2014

g21sfpistol said:
Yes thankfully states are allowing carry of some kind unlike back in the 90s. The states don't have to make the laws to crush carry of guns anymore. I like I just said above. If ever business decides to not allow the carrying of firearms what did you accoplish? If I can't carry my gun to where I'm going then what did you gain?

There is a difference between private citizens not wanting certain things on their property and asking you to leave VS the police arresting you for rightful behavior. The vast majority of businesses are still indifferent/follow state law.

I was recently OCing in Virginia and I went to starbucks and Chipotle, two businesses that "ask" people not bring guns in. Apparently the employees and customers there don't really care about the preferences of management in this regard because everyone was very friendly and no customers freaked out. To the contrary, one young male customer was pleasantly surprised that OC existed and was completely lawful.

papa bear · Jun 1, 2014

g21sfpistol said:
So what is the point to OC if every business didn't allow it? What goal did u accoplish?

Just what i like an honest troll

but to talk to your assertion that OC makes people hate guns. there is far more pro gun businesses then antis. also there have been a lot of businesses that have reversed their position.

also think about just a few years ago how people would have got harassed by the LE, when ever they OCed.
you just don't hear of it as much. this is because of OC and OCDO

g21sfpistol · Jun 1, 2014

papa bear said:
Just what i like an honest troll

but to talk to your assertion that OC makes people hate guns. there is far more pro gun businesses then antis. also there have been a lot of businesses that have reversed their position.

also think about just a few years ago how people would have got harassed by the LE, when ever they OCed.
you just don't hear of it as much. this is because of OC and OCDO

ah the troll defense. its proof that you know nothing. please post the businesses that reversed their decisions and are now posting signs that OC is welcome. starbucks wasnt against it either until they were used as a protest site.

g21sfpistol · Jun 1, 2014

77zach said:
There is a difference between private citizens not wanting certain things on their property and asking you to leave VS the police arresting you for rightful behavior. The vast majority of businesses are still indifferent/follow state law.

I was recently OCing in Virginia and I went to starbucks and Chipotle, two businesses that "ask" people not bring guns in. Apparently the employees and customers there don't really care about the preferences of management in this regard because everyone was very friendly and no customers freaked out. To the contrary, one young male customer was pleasantly surprised that OC existed and was completely lawful.

considering the average citizen is seeing these debates argued in these businesses, i would say your average citizen is going to fourm their own opinion. so if they could care less before or were on a fence they are now fourming opinions. and some are grouping all gun owners with the OC crowded who are acting like kids who need attention. you havnt answered my question either. if you get all the businesses to ban OC then what did you accomplish? you are also angering other gun owners who were once on your side. i was once on your side for OC. after being here and seeing how a lot are acting im starting to change my opinion.

b0neZ · Jun 1, 2014

I've seen this argument in quite a few threads: Don't assert your rights, otherwise they'll get taken away!

It wasn't that long ago that those in the LGBT community couldn't be who they were, in public, for fear of harassment or worse.

Now look at the rights they have. You can kick a person out of your business for no shirt/shoes or a (not literally) million other reasons, except if you disagree with their lifestyle, no matter how "in your face" it may be.

They had a decades long fight to get where they are now, we gun rights supporters should expect no less, and fight just as hard and just as long.

PeterNSteinmetz · Jun 1, 2014

Important to note that these businesses are asking people not to bring guns in, not actually posting a ban. I open carry into Starbucks a fair amount of the time, and it has never raised a question. It would be interesting to see actual poll data of how this has affected the electorate. Presently we have requests from some businesses, possibly trying to mollify Moms Demand Action. sort of early to know how this may have affected legislation.

In any case, I have to strongly support the right of people to carry their firearms legally in whatever manner they judge to be safe and most effective. If I recall correctly, OC is not legal in Texas, which is what I would be concerned about and I believe is what these protests are about.

OC Freedom · Jun 1, 2014

g21sfpistol said:
considering the average citizen is seeing these debates argued in these businesses, i would say your average citizen is going to fourm their own opinion. so if they could care less before or were on a fence they are now fourming opinions. and some are grouping all gun owners with the OC crowded who are acting like kids who need attention. you havnt answered my question either. if you get all the businesses to ban OC then what did you accomplish? you are also angering other gun owners who were once on your side. i was once on your side for OC. after being here and seeing how a lot are acting im starting to change my opinion.

I was once on the CC side, but I have found OC to be better over all. Its time to come out of the closet G21 and embrace true liberty instead of hiding your gun just like criminals do.

snatale42 · Jun 1, 2014

XD40sc said:
What the hell do these idiots think is going to happen when they carry their AR-15 into a restaurant?

Exactly! I'm all for OC obviously but at what point do idiots not realize that it would freak people out? If a person is freaked out by a handgun on a hip tough, but you can't even blame them for being freaked out by that.

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