OC fails again

MatieA said:

Steamboat Steakhouse in Cheyenne, WY posted a "no guns allowed" on the day they opened; it lasted 3 weeks and they removed it, and ran an ad in the paper saying that they welcomed gun-owners in their establishment. The lack of business hurt them severely.

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g21sfpistol said:

i need a cite for that

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Aint even gonna bother, and I'd show you a pic of the sign that used to be on the door, but I never took the time to take a picture of it. I don't eat there because most of the reviews for the food/service are lousy. I am not quoting a law so am not going to provide a cite.

g21sfpistol said:

I like the they came quote as well. In cali they came for your right to OC and it was taken. So what happens now? No one has done anything about it. Oh I forgot. The OC moment is working.

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So, explain to us, the great unwashed, Oh Great Mighty One, how concealed carry advances the firearms rights movement?

Fallschirmjäger said:

So, explain to us, the great unwashed, Oh Great Mighty One, how concealed carry advances the firearms rights movement?

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The same way staying in the closet would advance gay rights.

The same way Rosa Parks moving to the back would advance civil rights.

The same way remaining silent advances free speech......:lol:

Nightmare said:

I particularly like public discussion forums on controversial topics, for forcing skunks out into the light of day, so that we can see the color of their stripes, black/yellow/white. Yes, issues must be forced, otherwise the majority remains silent.

First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Socialist.

Then they came for the Trade Unionists, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Trade Unionist.

Then they came for the Jews, and I did not speak out—
Because I was not a Jew.

Then they came for me—and there was no one left to speak for me.

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Interesting timing on you posting this, OCT just posted the following on their Facebook page:

First, they came for those open carrying rifles and shotguns, but I don't open carry rifles and shotguns so I said nothing.

Then, they came for open carry of handguns, but I don't open carry handguns so I said nothing.

Then, they came for concealed carry of handguns, but there was no one left to defend me..

<snip>

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XD40sc said:

What the hell do these idiots think is going to happen when they carry their AR-15 into a restaurant?

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What the hell did CJ Grisham think would happen, walking down a rural road near his home as part of a hike with his son with his AR-15? Nothing. He thought nothing would happen. And nothing should have happened. And in the wake of a government trampling the rights of a fellow Texan, Texans demanded that the law be respected.

And now it is, all across the state. And when I carried my rifle into businesses that welcomed me, nothing happened, just as I'd expect. And those businesses that didn't welcome me to come in with my rifle, I respected their property rights and didn't go in with my rifle, just as it'd be expected of me.

stealthyeliminator said:

What the hell did CJ Grisham think would happen, walking down a rural road near his home as part of a hike with his son with his AR-15? Nothing. He thought nothing would happen. And nothing should have happened. And in the wake of a government trampling the rights of a fellow Texan, Texans demanded that the law be respected.

And now it is, all across the state. And when I carried my rifle into businesses that welcomed me, nothing happened, just as I'd expect. And those businesses that didn't welcome me to come in with my rifle, I respected their property rights and didn't go in with my rifle, just as it'd be expected of me.

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I expected you to say that

g21sfpistol said:

ah the troll defense. its proof that you know nothing. please post the businesses that reversed their decisions and are now posting signs that OC is welcome. starbucks wasnt against it either until they were used as a protest site.

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G21 you are a troll and probabaly a FUDD. embrace it sister, it is what you are. don't know what you mean by defense

off the top of my head
Neighbors chain of convenience stores, when one of their clerks was saved by a gun.

some of the bigger ones was Sam's , Wal-mart, Target, these places had no gun policies till they changed them.

once you get more experience with this site you will see more businesses that welcome open carriers

G21 - I don't know why you are on an open carry site if you really don't approve of the practice. This site advocates for the legal open carry of handguns in everyday life with a secondary goal of normalizing relations between gun owners and the public at large. You are not going to dissuade us from OCing. That said, I personally do not like the OC of rifles or shotguns, not because of its legality, but because IMO I think it is less safe than carrying a handgun and because the presentation when OCing a long gun seems to alter people's perceptions differently than OC of a handgun.

I have OCed a handgun since I was legally able to and I had only one true negative encounter, but in the end the outcome was positive because the "moron" realized he was acting as such and the other patrons and store personal gained an appreciation that gun owners aren't trigger happy cowboys. Just this past weekend I had a couple of folks compliment and thank me on my carry and even had a Sheriff give me a nod. I have had many opportunities to educate the curious and a few who thought they could make up their own rules. I have had several folks even run up to me while I was shopping, shake my hand, and thank me for carrying.

I can even speak to the "honesty" factor that was mentioned. One time I was in Laughlin, NV spending a weekend on the strip there. My CCPs weren't valid in NV so I was "stuck" carrying openly. I was eventually approached by security (who also thanked me for carrying since they aren't allowed to carry weapons themselves and can't really intervene if there is an altercation) and because I was upfront, honest, and followed the law, (and made them feel safer) they let me keep my sidearm in my room and welcomed my continued patronage. The only reason they approached me in the first place was because some nitwit complained and by policy they "had to" ask me to put it away. They also said if I had been concealing and they somehow found out about it, I would have been not only asked to leave, but also arrested because CCing without a CWP Nevada recognizes is a felony.

To me, the biggest thing to keep in mind about open carry is presentation. How you carry yourself is more important than how you carry your weapon. And that is where all of this LGOC stuff IMO is hurting us.

g21sfpistol said:

I like the they came quote as well. In cali they came for your right to OC and it was taken. So what happens now? No one has done anything about it. Oh I forgot. The OC moment is working.

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In California it was taken back in the '60's because the Black Panthers started open carrying in a perfectly legal fashion and the old white guys in Sacramento panicked because the police panicked. BTW, open carry is not a "movement" since it is perfectly legal in 45 states.

g21sfpistol said:

So what is the point to OC if every business didn't allow it? What goal did u accoplish?

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That's why we have cards to hand out to businesses explaining that their "gunbuster" signs cost them money. For example, I "went to Jared" and saw their "gunbuster" sign. Since I was open carrying, I didn't enter their store and headed back to my car. It must have been a slow day because a manager came out to ask me if he could help me. I explained that I was ready to spend a couple of thousand dollars on an anniversary present for my wife but I wouldn't be shopping at his store. He was absolutely gobsmacked when I told him that as long as his store banned the legal carry of handguns, either open or concealed, that they weren't getting so much as a dime from me, much less two grand. Once it becomes clear to businesses that they are losing paying customers to their little "gunbuster" signs, the signs start coming down.

MatieA said:

I have NEVER seen anyone run in terror because I walked in someplace armed. NOR have I seen puddles of liquid on the floor under where someone was standing.

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To be fair, you have apparently not walked in someplace openly armed with g21sfpistol "in tha house."

g21sfpistol said:

are you showing a gun to intimidate civilians like a criminal? i can compare you to criminals as well

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I "...show[...] a gun..." at work because that's how we carry ours, and "...civilians..." thank us on a regular basis for "...keeping us safe..." I open or concealed carry away from work because I can and no "...civilians..." seem intimidated, not even the lady who confronted me as I was wheeling groceries out of WalMart. She angrily demanded to know why I was carrying a gun. "What gun?" I asked. When she even more angrily pointed at the S&W Model 13 on my hip and almost shouted, "That gun!", I couldn't help chuckling. She was still spluttering as I pushed the shopping cart around her and went to my truck. Some people don't deserve explanations.

You can't compare us to criminals, because criminals don't open carry. They carry concealed until they take their "nines" or "fo'ties" out and wave them around. And, when they spot people open carrying, like in a certain Waffle House for example, they leave, hoping the open carriers will leave.

Most street criminals are rude and attempt to intimidate regular folks. We're just regular folks, and you seem to be trying to intimidate us through rudeness. But I won't make that comparison.

g21sfpistol said:

wouldnt (sic) asking you not to bring guns in be pretty much the same thing as banning them from their place of business? :lol:

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Nope.

whats (sic) the difference?

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An open letter requesting that people not carry guns in your business has no force of law. In Oklahoma, ignoring a "gunbuster" sign and not leaving when asked can result in a trespassing summons. Starbucks didn't post "gunbuster" signs. Do you understand the difference now?

g21sfpistol said:

are you showing a gun to intimidate civilians like a criminal? i can compare you to criminals as well

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Then you would be personally insulting - not a good thing.

g21sfpistol said:

I like the they came quote as well. In cali they came for your right to OC and it was taken. So what happens now? No one has done anything about it. Oh I forgot. The OC moment is working.

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Actually I would say the OC movement in California was pretty successful in the long term. The state took away the right of people to open carry which led to this :http://articles.latimes.com/2014/feb/13/local/la-me-concealed-weapons-20140214
Essentially because California won't allow OC they are now being required to grant concealed carry permits. "We are not holding that the Second Amendment requires the states to permit concealed carry," Judge Diarmuid O'Scannlain, a Reagan appointee, wrote for the panel. "But the Second Amendment does require that the states permit some form of carry for self-defense outside the home."

Now in 5-10 years when this has all settled and everyone sees that increased concealed carries do not lead to an increase in crime, much less gun crime it will open the door for OC again.

g21sfpistol said:

do you have proof it is sneaky? a cite maybe by the NRA stating CC is sneaky and OC is open and honest? you are making a claim that you need to cite.

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This right here is down right funny. Looking to the NRA for any support of OC.

Proof right here that the poster is a poser.

Again.....agent provocateur.....a Mad Mamas' Against Liberty (or, Mad Mamas' Want Your Children Dead) member.

Grapeshot said:

Then you would be personally insulting - not a good thing.

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I certainly doubt that it is stranger to that scenario. I am willing to wager that it is a common thing.

Bernymac said:

I certainly doubt that it is stranger to that scenario. I am willing to wager that it is a common thing.

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I was responding to user g21sfpistol's assertion that OCing a handgun was intended to be intimidating. Couldn't be further from the truth.

Grapeshot said:

I was responding to user g21sfpistol's assertion that OCing a handgun was intended to be intimidating. Couldn't be further from the truth.

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I certainly understood your take as a response to g21sfpistol's incredulity. My apologies, I should have been more clear...my take is that g21's affinity to "personally insulting" anyone, or perhaps everyone, may be personality trait inherent in his character.

papa bear said:

Just what i like an honest troll

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Yep.

g21sfpistol said:

ah the troll defense. its proof that you know nothing.

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And you seem to be the authority on open carry?

g21sfpistol said:

i was once on your side for OC. after being here and seeing how a lot are acting im starting to change my opinion.

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I really doubt that. You have told us all that you can draw faster than an OCer.

Elm Creek Smith said:

Most street criminals are rude and attempt to intimidate regular folks. We're just regular folks, and you seem to be trying to intimidate us through rudeness. But I won't make that comparison.

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I really do not see you as "rude" just an uninformed person attempting to force his views on others without a valid argument.

Does no one pay attention to you on other sites? Is that why you come here, because we are the only people that will engage in conversation? You do not support us, you have no valid argument, and your call to concealment is not being received well. Why do you come here?