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Thread: Drinking (within the drink drive limit) while carrying?

  1. #1
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    Drinking (within the drink drive limit) while carrying?

    I'm a little confused about this, I've read summaries that say you can't drink. Others than say you cannot be "impaired".

    So I'm entering a tavern, either concealed or I get the owners permission and open carry.

    Can I have *a* beer?

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    Per WI SS 941.237 you may not (class A misdemeanor) carry a handgun onto a place with a class B liquor license (on premise consumption) unless either:

    a: You have specific permission for "an event of limited duration" from the person the liquor permit was issued to. (ie, get it in writing that "On May 31, Joe Schmoe is allowed to carry his firearm in Ron's Tavern."), not "Yeah, the manager said it was OK" 941.237(3)(g)

    or

    b: You have a CCL and are not drinking. 941.237.(3)(cx)

    (There's a bunch of other stuff, but those are the important ones)
    Last edited by Teej; 06-02-2014 at 12:13 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teej View Post
    Per WI SS 941.237 you may not (class A misdemeanor) carry a handgun onto a place with a class B liquor license (on premise consumption) unless either:

    a: You have specific permission for "an event of limited duration" from the person the liquor permit was issued to. (ie, get it in writing that "On May 31, Joe Schmoe is allowed to carry his firearm in Ron's Tavern."), not "Yeah, the manager said it was OK" 941.237(3)(g)

    or

    b: You have a CCL and are not drinking. 941.237.(3)(cx)

    (There's a bunch of other stuff, but those are the important ones)
    Maybe I'm mixing it up with not being impaired (generally when carrying).

    So you could have a beer when open carrying, if you were doing so with the owners permission. Has anybody open carried in a tavern, if so, how did they obtain permission (and prove they had such)?

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    Like I said - if you get permission, get it in writing.

    As to the under the influence, that's a different subsection. 941.237 is about having a firearm in a bar/tavern.

    941.20 covers "endangering safety by reckless use of a weapon" including
    (b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant; or


    where "under the influence" is defined not by statute but by jury instructions...typically:

    "“Under the Influence‖ has been defined as materially impairing the ability to handle a firearm which is further explained as consuming ―an amount f
    alcohol to cause the person to be less able to exercise clear judgment and steady hand necessary to handle a firearm"

    The vehicular standard of .08 would probably be the best "solid reference", but if the prosecution gets people to say you were slurring your words, staggering, etc that might hold up.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Teej View Post
    Like I said - if you get permission, get it in writing.
    I can't remember the exact threads, but I have read about people open carrying with the owners permission. I'm pretty sure they didn't get it in writing.

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    Writing...it's not required so far as i know...but it's a pretty good idea.
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLovell View Post
    I can't remember the exact threads, but I have read about people open carrying with the owners permission. I'm pretty sure they didn't get it in writing.
    Probably, and probably they didn't get caught. That's why Rule (5) is such a very good idea.

    Rule (5) CITE TO AUTHORITY: If you state a rule of law, it is incumbent upon you to try to cite, as best you can, to authority. Citing to authority, using links when available,is what makes OCDO so successful. An authority is a published source of law that can back your claim up - statute, ordinance, court case, newspaper article covering a legal issue, etc.

    Here, we have four year around taverns to service less than 700 people. Most of the owners and managers are at least acquaintances, some are friends and some are drinking buddies. My favorite tavern and the best restaurant in town is owned/managed by my Chairman of the Town Board on which I was a Supervisor. And the junior cop Sgt. Schultz, that we hired, is a true blue-eye - ya know Patsy Kline's Don't it make your brown-eye blue!
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-02-2014 at 01:17 PM.
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    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Regardless of what the law says, I believe that most on here abstain from imbibing while carrying. The risk is just not worth the enjoyment of your favorite alcoholic beverage.
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    Yup. Much like when I'm out on a motorcycle, I don't drink while carrying. Just not worth it.
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    I drink at home, at Lutheran Hour, whether or not I am carrying and there are always guns discretely at hand.

    ETA: I do not hesitate to drink and drive, usually 400 ml, a half-bottle of wine split with my wife. Occasionally a bottle by myself. By standard charts 5 x 150 ml glass of wine puts me right at 0.08 BAC. Years of experience give me great confidence.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-02-2014 at 01:49 PM.
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    In my neighborhood some restaurants serve alcohol. I, and my Sweet Baboo, frequent a specific mexican place because the service is great, they like weapons and have great margaritas. With a meal I will drink and greatly enjoy that margarita. Am I impaired? No. Am I armed? Always. I am an adult, I choose not to intoxicate myself in public.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

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    Quote Originally Posted by MSG Laigaie View Post
    In my neighborhood some restaurants serve alcohol. I, and my Sweet Baboo, frequent a specific mexican place because the service is great, they like weapons and have great margaritas. With a meal I will drink and greatly enjoy that margarita. Am I impaired? No. Am I armed? Always. I am an adult, I choose not to intoxicate myself in public.
    I would like to enjoy a meal-enhancing libation with my meal, but I will not do it while carrying. Not because one glass of wine would have much of an effect on my 200 pound body, but because if an event occurs where I have to use my firearm in self defense, and it goes to trial, I am certain that the prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney will make a big deal out of the fact that I had been drinking. So, I choose not to drink alcoholic beverages when dining out. I, too, am an adult, and I choose to err on the side of caution.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I would like to enjoy a meal-enhancing libation with my meal, but I will not do it while carrying. Not because one glass of wine would have much of an effect on my 200 pound body, but because if an event occurs where I have to use my firearm in self defense, and it goes to trial, I am certain that the prosecutor or plaintiff's attorney will make a big deal out of the fact that I had been drinking. So, I choose not to drink alcoholic beverages when dining out. I, too, am an adult, and I choose to err on the side of caution.
    Well yes, there are two sides to that one. I am (like both suggestions) just talking about a drink with a meal.

    I was just interested in the legality of it.

    It sounds like you pretty much can't do it without planning well in advance or knowing where to go. I just visit Wisconsin, I'm not a resident, so it won't affect me massively either way.

    Just curiosity.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    Regardless of what the law says, I believe that most on here abstain from imbibing while carrying. The risk is just not worth the enjoyment of your favorite alcoholic beverage.
    Now that the Wisconsin law is settled, and the Virginia anti-drinking opinions are coming out, I guess I'll at least make sure to say there are plenty of members here who drink RESPONSIBLY while not being unarmed and defenseless.

    I'm glad I live in a state that doesn't treat me like a child and only makes it illegal to carry when DRUNK. To specify, I mean NV, which is where I live most of the time. (It's also legal in UT, with a slightly lower BAC limit)

    If I go to a bar and have a drink while watching a game with friends (adults know how many drinks they can have over what time period), I don't leave my gun at home or in the car. I also still keep my knife, and my car keys *horrors!* in my pocket, too.

    Those who can't drink responsibly probably shouldn't drink at all.

    Depending on local laws, being worried about prosecutors MAY be an issue in your area. Here, they only care if the bad guy was the bad guy and whether or not you are justified in the shooting. Still, I'd rather be educating a jury than my friend educating those who came to my funeral.
    Last edited by MAC702; 06-02-2014 at 06:50 PM.
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    I never drink "responsibly" .. I don't know what that means anyways ... I'll mull it over during my next case..

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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I never drink "responsibly" .. I don't know what that means anyways ... I'll mull it over during my next case..
    Drinking responsibly means not spilling a drop . . .
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    Regular Member MKEgal's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MikeLovell
    Has anybody open carried in a tavern, if so, how did they obtain permission (and prove they had such)?
    Yes, many times before we had cc.
    I walked in & asked if it was OK for me to have dinner there.
    They look at me funny, but always say yes.
    BTW, "tavern" means anywhere you can buy & drink an alcoholic beverage, including both what people think of as a bar, and restaurants such as Olive Garden.

    As for the applicable laws...
    Here's one place you can search by WI statute number or key word.

    941.237 Carrying handgun where alcoholic beverages may be sold and consumed
    (2) Whoever intentionally goes armed with a handgun on any premises for which a Class B … license … has been issued under ch. 125 is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor.

    (3) Subsection (2) does not apply to any of the following:
    (cx) A licensee … if … not consuming alcohol on the premises. [n.b. this does not specify openly or concealed]

    (g) The possession or use of a handgun on the premises if authorized for a specific event of limited duration by the owner or manager [n.b. it does not have to be written permission]


    941.20
    Endangering safety by use of dangerous weapon
    (1) Whoever does any of the following is guilty of a Class A misdemeanor:
    (b) Operates or goes armed with a firearm while he or she is under the influence of an intoxicant

    939.22(42) "Under the influence of an intoxicant" means that the actor's ability to operate a vehicle or handle a firearmor airgun is materially impairedbecause of his or her consumption of an alcohol beverage, hazardous inhalant, of a controlled substance or controlled substance analog ... or any combination ...

    885.235(1)(g)(c) The fact that the analysis shows that the person had an alcohol concentration of 0.08 or more is prima facie evidence that he or she was under the influence of an intoxicant

    Last edited by MKEgal; 06-04-2014 at 11:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Running Wolf View Post
    Drinking responsibly means not spilling a drop . . .
    Then I'm a helleva responsible drinker ! Extra-ordinarily so !

    I would never find anyone guilty of carry while drinking ... who cares?

    I've never shot anyone while drinking. I've been shot down while drinking though.

    More crazy not-based-on-fact conclusions.

    More "responsible gun owner" legal gibberish.
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 06-05-2014 at 03:21 AM.

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