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Thread: Stop calling the police .. "sp needs" knife weilder shot dead ... of course

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    Stop calling the police .. "sp needs" knife weilder shot dead ... of course

    http://www.infowars.com/family-calls...hoot-her-dead/

    The San Mateo County sheriff’s department says that 18-year-old Yanira Serrano, who suffered from depression, was fatally shot Tuesday in Half Moon Bay after she lunged at a deputy with a knife.

    Until more is known (like how far was she when she lunged ... 100 ft, 10 ft?) I'll hold out on any conclusions.


    “Who are we supposed to call now when we need help when who is supposed to help us is killing our kids?”

    Another parent who thinks that gov't can solve all their problems. What did they expect a paramedic to do? Take one for the team?

    Your kid, your responsibility. Ya call the cops about a psycho kid with a gun or knife, don't be surprised that they get shot or killed.

  2. #2
    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    http://www.infowars.com/family-calls...hoot-her-dead/

    “Who are we supposed to call now when we need help ....”

    ....
    Yessir, all those federal dollars for mental health crisis intervention teams, the funds that have been pouring into localities ever since the deinstitutionalization of the MH wards in the 1970s - sure is working well.

    Actually, one of the problems is that the cops are not calling the crisis intervention teams. Many of them have been dismantled because they were not being used.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Until more is known (like how far was she when she lunged ... 100 ft, 10 ft?) I'll hold out on any conclusions.
    Does it honestly matter how far she was? 10ft or 10,000ft, if she is charging you with a knife, are you not going to do everything in your power to stop that threat?

    While it'd be nice if the officers had used less lethal tools, why should I condemn them for doing exactly what I would do?

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    Was this young woman shot in the back?

    I will not comment until more definitive information is made available.

    CCJ
    " I detest hypocrites and their Hypocrisy" I support Liberty for each, for all, and forever".
    Ask yourself, Do you own Yourself?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Does it honestly matter how far she was? 10ft or 10,000ft, if she is charging you with a knife, are you not going to do everything in your power to stop that threat?

    While it'd be nice if the officers had used less lethal tools, why should I condemn them for doing exactly what I would do?
    I'm sure people 10000 ft away are lunging towards me ... I let them live ... this time. lol

    Really, a threat must be a real threat.

    The cop shot her like 20 seconds after being on the scene .. from what the story said

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I'm sure people 10000 ft away are lunging towards me ... I let them live ... this time. lol

    Really, a threat must be a real threat.

    The cop shot her like 20 seconds after being on the scene .. from what the story said
    Well, even if I did take the shot, I guarantee you I would miss.

    My point though is that distance doesn't really matter a whole lot, the moment they charge at you with a knife they have signaled their deadly intent and instantly become a grave, imminent threat.

    As for this specific case, I didn't read the article. I was just stating that I would not condemn someone for shooting an armed attacker that is further away than some arbitrary distance.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    Well, even if I did take the shot, I guarantee you I would miss.

    My point though is that distance doesn't really matter a whole lot, the moment they charge at you with a knife they have signaled their deadly intent and instantly become a grave, imminent threat.
    ONLY when it is REASONABLE! the attacker must have the ABILITY or Perceived ability to accomplish the goal. At 100 feet (arbitrary distance) they may have every INTENT to commit the potentially deadly assault I am NOT at risk. Now per the Tueller drill (21 foot distance) when the knife wielder may have about a 50% chance of harming one with the knife then one would be fully justified. So somewhere between 100 feet and 21 feet away---- one becomes justified to defend themselves.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    ONLY when it is REASONABLE! the attacker must have the ABILITY or Perceived ability to accomplish the goal. At 100 feet (arbitrary distance) they may have every INTENT to commit the potentially deadly assault I am NOT at risk. Now per the Tueller drill (21 foot distance) when the knife wielder may have about a 50% chance of harming one with the knife then one would be fully justified. So somewhere between 100 feet and 21 feet away---- one becomes justified to defend themselves.
    It's a trivial matter to close a 100' gap. It's not like they're standing on the opposite side of a lake or something.

    The only reason they might not have the ability from 100' is because you have a gun. So now you have to consider your ability of utilizing deadly force at range as a metric for them being unable to succeed? Wut??

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    What if the victim was attempting to defend herself from the/a cop? No knife to gun fight jokes please. Why do assumptions always swing the cop's way.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    The same reason assumptions should swing in favor of anyone involved with a self defense shooting.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    My assumption goes to the "civilian". Like CCJ said not enough info.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Findings of fact, not the shoot was good until proven otherwise. Most SD events are pretty cut and dried on the first inspection.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by skidmark View Post
    Yessir, all those federal dollars for mental health crisis intervention teams, the funds that have been pouring into localities ever since the deinstitutionalization of the MH wards in the 1970s - sure is working well.

    Actually, one of the problems is that the cops are not calling the crisis intervention teams. Many of them have been dismantled because they were not being used.

    stay safe.
    yep, Johnson's 'Great Society' was a complete bust. when he shifted the funding from the Federal to States then told the States, with a wink and a nod, the States would be getting the money to continue the MH activities from 'other Federal sources' he didn't count on congress as well as the State(s) squandering the money elsewhere.

    ipse
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    my choice
    Last edited by solus; 06-06-2014 at 10:49 AM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

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    Regular Member 77zach's Avatar
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    One's head must really be in the sand to call 911 for a disturbed or suicidal family member. The cops will keep them from hurting themselves by means of many .40 rounds to the chest. I see the same thing so many times in news articles I don't even think anything of it. Call the heroes and they will escalate the situation. It doesn't matter if there are 10 large male cops vs a little girl. If that little girl charges with a knife she's getting ventilated. After all, that's what they're training says to do, and a little girl with a knife can kill.

    The neighbors are saying she was shot in the back. We'll see.
    “If the natural tendencies of mankind are so bad that it is not safe to permit people to be free, how is it that the tendencies of these organizers are always good? Do not the legislators and their appointed agents also belong to the human race? Or do they believe that they themselves are made of a finer clay than the rest of mankind? ” -Bastiat

    I don't "need" to openly carry a handgun or own an "assault weapon" any more than Rosa Parks needed a seat on the bus.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 77zach View Post
    <snip>

    The neighbors are saying she was shot in the back. We'll see.
    Well, if she kept on running for 25,000 miles she would have killed the cop !

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    It's a trivial matter to close a 100' gap. It's not like they're standing on the opposite side of a lake or something.

    The only reason they might not have the ability from 100' is because you have a gun. So now you have to consider your ability of utilizing deadly force at range as a metric for them being unable to succeed? Wut??
    Butt one would also have some other options to try before the intend ed assaulter did in fact close the distance. My comments were simply to point out the even though an attacker may have a weapon and intent without proximity there us still no real immediate threat. Once immediate proximity is added the on would be justified in defending against what is now an immediate threat with real risk of possible loss of life as seen by a reasonable person.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    Butt one would also have some other options to try before the intend ed assaulter did in fact close the distance. My comments were simply to point out the even though an attacker may have a weapon and intent without proximity there us still no real immediate threat. Once immediate proximity is added the on would be justified in defending against what is now an immediate threat with real risk of possible loss of life as seen by a reasonable person.
    What options? Retreating? Retreating isn't required in most states and is never an option.

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    A teenage witness named Dyanna Ruiz said she saw the mentally disabled child Yanira Serrano chasing the police officer:

    “I saw the girl running at him with something in her hands. I didn’t know what was happening. I was really scared about what to do.”


    Read more at http://www.inquisitr.com/1286043/men...zgkgxytk2w2.99



    Based on that statement above, it looks like a good defensive killing to me .... parents did not like the outcome, who would.

    Can't be running around threatening people with a knife and not expect to get shot.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    What options? Retreating? Retreating isn't required in most states and is never an option.
    And shoot someone at a distance of 100 feet while demonstrating some skill at arms isn't going to be viewed by the local popo as a "good" shoot.

    I do have other options in the time it takes an attacker to travel that 75 feet to improve my chances of survival and not doing the survival in a jail cell for an unjustified use of force.

    ? Just why does this bother you so much?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    And shoot someone at a distance of 100 feet while demonstrating some skill at arms isn't going to be viewed by the local popo as a "good" shoot.

    I do have other options in the time it takes an attacker to travel that 75 feet to improve my chances of survival and not doing the survival in a jail cell for an unjustified use of force.

    ? Just why does this bother you so much?
    you know a cop cant hit anything 100ft away

  22. #22
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JoeSparky View Post
    ? Just why does this bother you so much?
    This issue is we've already established it as a self defense situation, we shouldn't be second guessing someone elses decision on how best to protect their life.

    Under the law, it isn't unjustified, they have proven intent and displayed means. You have no obligation to retreat. If the courts disagree, then I feel the courts are wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    This issue is we've already established it as a self defense situation, we shouldn't be second guessing someone elses decision on how best to protect their life.

    Under the law, it isn't unjustified, they have proven intent and displayed means. You have no obligation to retreat. If the courts disagree, then I feel the courts are wrong.
    And I'd question anyone claiming per your original post quoted by me that a real threat exists by anyone 1000 feet away with a knife threatening to kill me. While more of a threat at 100 feet I don't think it would be justified at 100 feet. And yes I'd be taking steps to secure my defense as the attacker crossed that 100 foot threshold, might even be preparing to shot while loudly suggesting they change their plan of action----which would all help to support my claim of justification by self defense when I was forced to fire to stop the threat.

    No, I'm not saying you have to be cut before you can defend yourself.
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
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    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

  24. #24
    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    The ten thousand feet remark was obviously an exaggeration. You're going to be hard pressed to prove someone was an actually immediate that two miles away. It takes a significant amount of time to travel that distance.

    It only takes seconds to cover 100 feet.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    The ten thousand feet remark was obviously an exaggeration. You're going to be hard pressed to prove someone was an actually immediate that two miles away. It takes a significant amount of time to travel that distance.

    It only takes seconds to cover 100 feet.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    I do agree that a threat at 100 feet IS more pressing and immediate than one at the 1000 foot distance or further. Certainly, a distance that one probably SHOULD be preparing to effectively defend themselves.

    So, we agree?
    RIGHTS don't exist without RESPONSIBILITY!
    If one is not willing to stand for his rights, he doesn't have any Rights.
    I will strive to stand for the rights of ANY person, even those folks with whom I disagree!
    As said by SVG--- "I am not anti-COP, I am PRO-Citizen" and I'll add, PRO-Constitution.
    If the above makes me a RADICAL or EXTREME--- So be it!

    Life Member NRA
    Life Member GOA
    2nd amendment says.... "...The right of the people to keep and bear arms SHALL NOT BE INFRINGED!"

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