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Shooting in a gun free zone, Seattle Pacific University

Primus

Regular Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2013
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3,939
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United States
Why do we need to bring up other states all the time? No limit in WA (except for legal hunting). This is the WA forum, talking about a WA event. Not picking on you in particular Primus. There a lot of people doing it recently.
Here you can put on an Xrail:
https://www.xrailbyrci.com/

You do realize WA isn't in some protective bubble right?

2 things can and do happen. 1 congress gets dumb ideas and tries to pass federal laws. And 2 state legislatures get dumb ideas and pass dumb local laws based on OTHER STATES.

Also, sure there's no limits now. Except tomorrow or the day after or whenever the antis get back at it they can easily say "see if they made it so EVERYONE was like this guy then it would reduce deaths".

The antis pay attention on ways to screw us. And we envy other states that ate pro gun. So just pointing out what the antis will say.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

Dave_pro2a

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, ,
You do realize WA isn't in some protective bubble right?

2 things can and do happen. 1 congress gets dumb ideas and tries to pass federal laws. And 2 state legislatures get dumb ideas and pass dumb local laws based on OTHER STATES.

Also, sure there's no limits now. Except tomorrow or the day after or whenever the antis get back at it they can easily say "see if they made it so EVERYONE was like this guy then it would reduce deaths".

The antis pay attention on ways to screw us. And we envy other states that ate pro gun. So just pointing out what the antis will say.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Yes the entire country will slowly become California.

Liberal
Sunny
legalized pot
anti-gun
Super high cost of living
Insane bureaucracy
Controlled by unions, mostly prison and schools (hmm, odd coincidence there... prisons & schools)
Totally bankrupt.

Hey, at least it isn't *all* bad. And heck, WA is already over half way there.
 
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Perkins

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Joined
Aug 25, 2013
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Washington
The ban on firearms at private universities only extends to faculty, staff, and students. The majority of the private universities are open campuses, which means family members and others can come visit on campus. The prohibition of carry by students places no restriction on others visiting the school.
 

Rusty Young Man

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Jun 19, 2013
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Árida Zona
The ban on firearms at private universities only extends to faculty, staff, and students. The majority of the private universities are open campuses, which means family members and others can come visit on campus. The prohibition of carry by students places no restriction on others visiting the school.

I'm not too sure about that. If they ask for no (legally-carried) weapons, would it be like a private property case?
I say this because the University of Arizona down here in Tucson, AZ and the other two universities that make up the "Big 3" in the state all fall under the authority of the Arizona Board of Regents, but each university is considered a "private institution". Despite being an open campus, non-students who decide to carry through campus may not be charged initially, but would be trespassed if they stayed after being asked to leave (they have the magical "Weapons Free Zone" signs, after all:rolleyes:); students would also not be subjected to legal ramifications, but could expect expulsion (maybe suspension if the benign tyrants are feeling generous) seeing as any and all Rights are waived in order to attend.
 
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Difdi

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Mar 2, 2010
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987
Location
Seattle, Washington, USA
Who agree to a student code of conduct. Break it and risk your degree.

Contract terms that require you to give up a statutory or constitutional right have been ruled unconscionable by courts many times in the past. Find the right court and right argument, and this one might be too.
 

Dave_pro2a

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Contract terms that require you to give up a statutory or constitutional right have been ruled unconscionable by courts many times in the past. Find the right court and right argument, and this one might be too.

While your 4 year degree is 'put on hold' after maybe 3 years (and $60k 'invested' into it).

That dar is high stakes gambling, with parents money (or student loans).
 

slapmonkay

Campaign Veteran
Joined
May 6, 2011
Messages
1,308
Location
Montana
Latest updates state that 1 person is dead, 2 are injured, and 2 ROTC students subdued the shooter while he was reloading. I see a difficult battle keeping ammo prices low(er), keeping private sales legal, and keeping preemption.

SPU is a private university - therefore they can ban firearms on campus. Public uni's I think can ban them for students per the WAC's.

The shooter was subdued by a hall monitor that was carrying pepper spray because that's all he was allowed to carry. I am glad this scenario worked out, given he essentially brought pepper spray to a gun fight. I also read that the shooter was pepper sprayed outside the building before he entered by one of his victims:

Police sources told Q13 FOX News that an “agitated,” white man believed to be in his 20s with a shotgun told two people on the campus to remain still. When one moved, the gunman shot that person. The second person sprayed Mace at the gunman, who then shot the second person in the face, police said.

My question is now, what would have happened had these students been allowed to carry firearms? They are carrying pepper spray, the odds are at least there that they may normally carry as well but don't due to policy and revert back to pepper spray as a line of defense.

Of course, this is all a what if scenario...
 

Perkins

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Aug 25, 2013
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Location
Washington
Yes, however, things are slightly different here. First, gun free zone signs only carry any weight in certain places (courthouse, mental hospital, elementary/high school, maybe someplace that's escaping my memory at the moment). Anyplace else may ask you to leave for any reason and you must do so or face tresspass charges (regardless of signs). Note: I am not advocating ignoring signs when they are posted, if a place clearly doesn't want you there, don't go. The exception to this are certain repositories of public information. At one point in time, Gonzaga's library was such a place; I believe it still holds documents and other things 'on-loan' with the requirement that they make it available to the public. As such, if you are there for that sort of ligitimate purpose, all they can do is require you to conceal your weapon. SPU and Gonzaga are the two Jesuit universities here in Washington, so there are some similarities between the two. I know that GU doesn't even have any gun free zone signs posted. Nor is there a publicly visible notice board for conduct which prohibits weapons. While you are correct that a parent who is found to have a weapon while visiting will be asked to leave, the parent may well not even be aware that weapons are prohibited to students and employees. Further, even in the student handbook, there is no prohibition on 'others' carrying, so even if a guest obtained the handbook or the personel policies and procedures manual, they would find no writen warning that they would be asked to leave if found carrying.

Difdi, you are more correct than I think you realise. Under certain circumstances, courts have said that you may give up certain rights. When you pay to go to a force-on-force training event, or enter a boxing ring, you are generally required to certify that you are weapons-free. The stated reason for this is everyone's safety. Note that the same justification is used to disarm students. As such, courts could hold that, by agreeing to be unarmed, you must follow that contract. However, at no point during the application process at GU is the student handbook presented to you for you to look over the terms of the rules. While I cannot speak to other universities, I imagine it is standard practice. Further, if you do not live with immediate family and do not obtain special permission, you are required to live on campus your first two years or until you are 21. The on campus housing is also weapons-free. Once again, while the fact that you must live on campus is explained during the application process, the rental agreement for living on campus is not presented to you at that time. Generally when a court finds clauses unconscionable due to violating protected rights of an individual, it is because abridgement the right is not critical to the contract, and the person agreeing to the contract is not specifically made aware of the intended breach. If I agree to come to your event and you say 'we have a resonable code of conduct we expect people to follow', and I agree, I'll be bound by that code of conduct. This remains true even if you never explicitly state you have a code of conduct, there is an implied code of conduct present when you go to a store, for example you are't generally supposed to move stuff around on the shelves. However, if that code of conduct includes permitting non-voluntary searches or other abridgments of my rights, which you did not specifically enumerate, it is likely that a court will say that you were acting in bad faith by sneaking them into the code of conduct. Since having the students unarmed is not critical to any but the P.E. classes, and the prohibition on weapons is tucked out of sight where you won't see it until you've turned down offers from other schools because you really want to go 'here', I don't think it's too hard to imagine how a decent court would rule. As for putting the degree on hold, you could sue before breaking the rule to have a court issue an opinion that part of the contract is unconscionable, but the rest is left in force. It would be risky, as the university would likely look for an excuse to get rid of you, in order to remove your standing in court, but it wouldn't put your 'education' on hold while fighting the lawsuit.
 

golddigger14s

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Apr 27, 2010
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Lawton, OK USA
snip-- As such, if you are there for that sort of legitimate purpose, all they can do is require you to conceal your weapon. --snip--.

Since this state does not have a license to open carry, how can they require you to cover it up? If the person does not have a CPL, than they are telling you to break the law. In this state no one can order some one to cover up, not even a cop.
 

1911er

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Joined
Sep 9, 2009
Messages
833
Location
Port Orchard Wa. /Granite Oklahoma
I had a local Port Orchard cop tell me that because someone called in a man with a gun call against me I had to cover it up the rest of the day, and told me it was a Port Orchard municipal code .

When I asked him what code it was and why Port Orchard was able to circumvent state preemption laws he started him hawing about it. Said it would be a good idea to cover up So I went down and talked to his supervisor and asked if that wasn't considered collusion under color of law because he was wearing a badge . And the supervisor whom I know personally said it would not happen again. I told him if it did it would end up in court.
 

golddigger14s

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Joined
Apr 27, 2010
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Lawton, OK USA
I love it when people make up stuff (assuming that you don't know better), and think you will believe them just because they are a person in a certain position (cop, manager, etc.) It really messes up their mind when you fight back with actual facts.
 
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