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Some Schools will have armed officials in Yakima County

JoeSparky

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Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
If we called a shite a rose it would still just be shite. ;)



I agree but the statist want a group of certified people to feel special and that they are privileged and licensed by the state to be "first responders". A few years ago I looked up the propaganda behind that term to reminiscent of Mother Russia or Fatherland.....no coincidence it was pushed heavily with Homeland Security. It just leaves me with an icky feeling of disgust.

And I have absolutely zero problem with training! My problem is the REQUIREMENT to have ANY training to exercise a RIGHT!
 

Primus

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And I have absolutely zero problem with training! My problem is the REQUIREMENT to have ANY training to exercise a RIGHT!

Agreed. Except you have no right to work or volunteer at a school in any capacity.

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JoeSparky

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Pleasant Grove, Utah, USA
Agreed. Except you have no right to work or volunteer at a school in any capacity.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Schools seem to asking, rather PLEADING for volunteer parents or grandparents near all the time. And in the State in which I reside, they can't do a damn thing legally about my carrying openly or concealed!
 

Primus

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Schools seem to asking, rather PLEADING for volunteer parents or grandparents near all the time. And in the State in which I reside, they can't do a damn thing legally about my carrying openly or concealed!

So in your state if you decided to sit in your kids class all day to protect then they'd allow it? Or at their lunch time and restroom breaks? Even better, would they allow you to sit in on a random class of kids to protect them?

Again, even if they some how let you (I doubt it) there is no right to do so.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
 

JoeSparky

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So in your state if you decided to sit in your kids class all day to protect then they'd allow it? Or at their lunch time and restroom breaks? Even better, would they allow you to sit in on a random class of kids to protect them?

Again, even if they some how let you (I doubt it) there is no right to do so.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

I do keep forgetting you are from one of those far northeastern states where you have to ask permission to breathe more than your allotted 10-20 times per minute.

I have many rights even those NOT enumerated specifically in the US or my home State's Constitutions. It saddens me that you have to live so tightly held down by the thumb of tyrants over you. Maybe, if you work hard, YOU to can live in a State that recognizes ones individual rights and freedoms. I am not saying my State is perfect, far from it. But it is so much better than yours.

I have NOT said that I have a right to be on the grounds of a public school. I have said that as an VISITOR on the campus where I am volunteering in a classroom etc. the LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT can do absolutely NOTHING to me legally simply for my carry of a firearm either opening carried or concealed. Requirements needed for this is a PERMIT issued by my state to get released from the PREVIOUSLY found to be UNCONSTITUTIONAL and reinacted without significant change Federal Gun Free School Zone law. BTW Utah permit simply allows concealment, IT IN NO WAY REQUIRES CONCEALMENT!

BTW: here are the Utah laws to support my claim that the local public school can do absolutely NOTHING against me related to my carry of a firearm or other dangerous weapon while on the public school campus and not violation any other laws/rules/regulations!


53-5a-102. Uniform firearm laws.
(1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right under Article I, Section 6 of the Utah Constitution, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform civil and criminal firearm laws throughout the state.
(2) Except as specifically provided by state law, a local authority or state entity may not:
(a) prohibit an individual from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping a firearm at the individual's place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in the individual's possession or lawfully under the individual's control; or
(b) require an individual to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
(3) In conjunction with Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons, this section is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities.
(4) All authority to regulate firearms is reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities.
(5) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property.
(6) As used in this section:
(a) "firearm" has the same meaning as defined in Section 76-10-501; and
(b) "local authority or state entity" includes public school districts, public schools, and state institutions of higher education.
(7) Nothing in this section restricts or expands private property rights.

Amended by Chapter 278, 2013 General Session




76-10-500. Uniform law.
(1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state. Except as specifically provided by state law, a citizen of the United States or a lawfully admitted alien shall not be:
(a) prohibited from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping any firearm at his place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in his possession or lawfully under his control; or
(b) required to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
(2) This part is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities. All authority to regulate firearms shall be reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities. Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact or enforce any ordinance, regulation, or rule pertaining to firearms.

Enacted by Chapter 5, 1999 General Session


76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or short barreled shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
(1) As used in this section, "on or about school premises" means:
(a) (i) in a public or private elementary or secondary school; or
(ii) on the grounds of any of those schools;
(b) (i) in a public or private institution of higher education; or
(ii) on the grounds of a public or private institution of higher education; and
(iii) (A) inside the building where a preschool or child care is being held, if the entire building is being used for the operation of the preschool or child care; or
(B) if only a portion of a building is being used to operate a preschool or child care, in that room or rooms where the preschool or child care operation is being held.
(2) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or short barreled shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in this section.
(3) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or short barreled shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(4) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;

(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property; or
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students.
(5) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.

Amended by Chapter 301, 2013 General Session



53-5-704. Bureau duties -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- Certification for concealed firearms instructor -- Requirements for issuance -- Violation -- Denial, suspension, or revocation -- Appeal procedure.
(1) (a) The bureau shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of age or older within 60 days after receiving an application, unless the bureau finds proof that the applicant does not meet the qualifications set forth in Subsection (2).
(b) The permit is valid throughout the state for five years, without restriction, except as otherwise provided by Section 53-5-710.

(c) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to a person issued a permit under Subsection (1)(a).
(d) Subsection (4)(a) does not apply to a nonresident:
(i) active duty service member, who present to the bureau orders requiring the active duty service member to report for duty in this state; or
(ii) an active duty service member's spouse, stationed with the active duty service member, who presents to the bureau the active duty service member's orders requiring the service member to report for duty in this state.

Snipped.


Finally, just how many MASS SCHOOL SHOOTINGS have occurred in UTAH for the 20 years or so it has been LEGAL for anyone with a UTAH permit to carry in any manner in a UTAH public school?
 
Last edited:

Primus

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I do keep forgetting you are from one of those far northeastern states where you have to ask permission to breathe more than your allotted 10-20 times per minute.

I have many rights even those NOT enumerated specifically in the US or my home State's Constitutions. It saddens me that you have to live so tightly held down by the thumb of tyrants over you. Maybe, if you work hard, YOU to can live in a State that recognizes ones individual rights and freedoms. I am not saying my State is perfect, far from it. But it is so much better than yours.

I have NOT said that I have a right to be on the grounds of a public school. I have said that as an VISITOR on the campus where I am volunteering in a classroom etc. the LOCAL SCHOOL DISTRICT can do absolutely NOTHING to me legally simply for my carry of a firearm either opening carried or concealed. Requirements needed for this is a PERMIT issued by my state to get released from the PREVIOUSLY found to be UNCONSTITUTIONAL and reinacted without significant change Federal Gun Free School Zone law. BTW Utah permit simply allows concealment, IT IN NO WAY REQUIRES CONCEALMENT!

BTW: here are the Utah laws to support my claim that the local public school can do absolutely NOTHING against me related to my carry of a firearm or other dangerous weapon while on the public school campus and not violation any other laws/rules/regulations!


53-5a-102. Uniform firearm laws.
(1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right under Article I, Section 6 of the Utah Constitution, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform civil and criminal firearm laws throughout the state.
(2) Except as specifically provided by state law, a local authority or state entity may not:
(a) prohibit an individual from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping a firearm at the individual's place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in the individual's possession or lawfully under the individual's control; or
(b) require an individual to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
(3) In conjunction with Title 76, Chapter 10, Part 5, Weapons, this section is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities.
(4) All authority to regulate firearms is reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities.
(5) Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact, establish, or enforce any ordinance, regulation, rule, or policy pertaining to firearms that in any way inhibits or restricts the possession or use of firearms on either public or private property.
(6) As used in this section:
(a) "firearm" has the same meaning as defined in Section 76-10-501; and
(b) "local authority or state entity" includes public school districts, public schools, and state institutions of higher education.
(7) Nothing in this section restricts or expands private property rights.

Amended by Chapter 278, 2013 General Session




76-10-500. Uniform law.
(1) The individual right to keep and bear arms being a constitutionally protected right, the Legislature finds the need to provide uniform laws throughout the state. Except as specifically provided by state law, a citizen of the United States or a lawfully admitted alien shall not be:
(a) prohibited from owning, possessing, purchasing, selling, transferring, transporting, or keeping any firearm at his place of residence, property, business, or in any vehicle lawfully in his possession or lawfully under his control; or
(b) required to have a permit or license to purchase, own, possess, transport, or keep a firearm.
(2) This part is uniformly applicable throughout this state and in all its political subdivisions and municipalities. All authority to regulate firearms shall be reserved to the state except where the Legislature specifically delegates responsibility to local authorities or state entities. Unless specifically authorized by the Legislature by statute, a local authority or state entity may not enact or enforce any ordinance, regulation, or rule pertaining to firearms.

Enacted by Chapter 5, 1999 General Session


76-10-505.5. Possession of a dangerous weapon, firearm, or short barreled shotgun on or about school premises -- Penalties.
(1) As used in this section, "on or about school premises" means:
(a) (i) in a public or private elementary or secondary school; or
(ii) on the grounds of any of those schools;
(b) (i) in a public or private institution of higher education; or
(ii) on the grounds of a public or private institution of higher education; and
(iii) (A) inside the building where a preschool or child care is being held, if the entire building is being used for the operation of the preschool or child care; or
(B) if only a portion of a building is being used to operate a preschool or child care, in that room or rooms where the preschool or child care operation is being held.
(2) A person may not possess any dangerous weapon, firearm, or short barreled shotgun, as those terms are defined in Section 76-10-501, at a place that the person knows, or has reasonable cause to believe, is on or about school premises as defined in this section.
(3) (a) Possession of a dangerous weapon on or about school premises is a class B misdemeanor.
(b) Possession of a firearm or short barreled shotgun on or about school premises is a class A misdemeanor.
(4) This section does not apply if:
(a) the person is authorized to possess a firearm as provided under Section 53-5-704, 53-5-705, 76-10-511, or 76-10-523, or as otherwise authorized by law;

(b) the possession is approved by the responsible school administrator;
(c) the item is present or to be used in connection with a lawful, approved activity and is in the possession or under the control of the person responsible for its possession or use; or
(d) the possession is:
(i) at the person's place of residence or on the person's property; or
(ii) in any vehicle lawfully under the person's control, other than a vehicle owned by the school or used by the school to transport students.
(5) This section does not prohibit prosecution of a more serious weapons offense that may occur on or about school premises.

Amended by Chapter 301, 2013 General Session



53-5-704. Bureau duties -- Permit to carry concealed firearm -- Certification for concealed firearms instructor -- Requirements for issuance -- Violation -- Denial, suspension, or revocation -- Appeal procedure.
(1) (a) The bureau shall issue a permit to carry a concealed firearm for lawful self defense to an applicant who is 21 years of age or older within 60 days after receiving an application, unless the bureau finds proof that the applicant does not meet the qualifications set forth in Subsection (2).
(b) The permit is valid throughout the state for five years, without restriction, except as otherwise provided by Section 53-5-710.

(c) The provisions of Subsections 76-10-504(1) and (2), and Section 76-10-505 do not apply to a person issued a permit under Subsection (1)(a).
(d) Subsection (4)(a) does not apply to a nonresident:
(i) active duty service member, who present to the bureau orders requiring the active duty service member to report for duty in this state; or
(ii) an active duty service member's spouse, stationed with the active duty service member, who presents to the bureau the active duty service member's orders requiring the service member to report for duty in this state.

Snipped.


Finally, just how many MASS SCHOOL SHOOTINGS have occurred in UTAH for the 20 years or so it has been LEGAL for anyone with a UTAH permit to carry in any manner in a UTAH public school?

We are in AGREEMENT. So I'm not sure why the dig.

We agree there are rights not written down.

We agree you DONT have the right to he on school grounds.

We agree you have the right to carry while on school property (regardless of needing permission slip).

My main point was about the LACK of a "right" to volunteer and or work on school grounds. Regardless of being able to carry with a slip, they still need to LET you volunteer there. Most especially in at security/safety regard.

With this LACK of a right to be on school grounds to volunteer or work, they should and do (it seems) require you to be trained before they give you required PERMISSION to hang out in class rooms, school buildings, etc. In any formal capacity.

That's all ive been saying this whole time.

Edit: to answer your question about Utah school shootings.... The answer would be the same as in MA.... Where you can barely carry a gun in any manner in any location (depending on city/town)...... None.

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EMNofSeattle

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So to exercise a RIGHT we must pass a test? IF a test is required to exercise, IT AIN'T A RIGHT!

There is a difference between acting as the defender of you and your own family and acting as institutional security.

I think Washingtons prohibition of carrying in schools should be repealed, it's only been illegal since 1994.... But if you're carrying your own pistol, and have no duty or obligation to catch a bullet for someone else's crumb cruncher I have no problem with you carrying a gun with no training, no tests, etc. If you go to watch a graduation, teacher conference, open house day, whatever.... I have no problem with you carrying...
If the school district is going to endorse an invididual who is expected to carry a gun and interfere, they should be trained, licensed, etc. Because if that person screws up the district is liable.....
 
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sudden valley gunner

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Ah what a twisted web they weave when statism they try to achieve.

I have the right to protect my children and the children of my community I don't need no stinking endorsement. Capice?
 

Dave_pro2a

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We agree you DONT have the right to he on school grounds.

I don't agree to that.

Public funds paid for that public space.

Even people who don't have any kids enrolled in the school, PAID for the school via property taxes (and keep paying for it every year). Renters pay too, since the landlord will use their rent to pay the property taxes.

Public space = public access. Otherwise it's kinda just like... theft.
 

Primus

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Ah what a twisted web they weave when statism they try to achieve.

I have the right to protect my children and the children of my community I don't need no stinking endorsement. Capice?

Can you cite this right? Especially that part about protecting my kid? Or others in your community?

I'll wait patiently.

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Primus

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I don't agree to that.

Public funds paid for that public space.

Even people who don't have any kids enrolled in the school, PAID for the school via property taxes (and keep paying for it every year). Renters pay too, since the landlord will use their rent to pay the property taxes.

Public space = public access. Otherwise it's kinda just like... theft.

Well I guess it's a good thing I was telling someone else that we agreed...

And its not public funds paid for a public space. Its public funds paid to teach kids. Its much different then a public park of public building, etc. It has a specific unique purpose.

Would you really be ok with any random person sitting next to your kid in class? Also, last I checked there is an enrollment and drop process in schools. So not even your kid has a "right" to be there.

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sudden valley gunner

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Can you cite this right? Especially that part about protecting my kid? Or others in your community?

I'll wait patiently.

Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk

Wrong question and shows your mindsets. Rights are not written down.....:rolleyes:

Can you cite where I don't have the right to protect my children or the children of my community?

But since you asked why don't you read the constitution and the 9th amendment. Supposedly you fought for it, yet you don't have clue what it is.
 
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sudden valley gunner

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Well I guess it's a good thing I was telling someone else that we agreed...

And its not public funds paid for a public space. Its public funds paid to teach kids. Its much different then a public park of public building, etc. It has a specific unique purpose.

Would you really be ok with any random person sitting next to your kid in class? Also, last I checked there is an enrollment and drop process in schools. So not even your kid has a "right" to be there.

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LOL...hey Dave they steal your money for public use and then exclude you from the public.......
 

EMNofSeattle

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Ah what a twisted web they weave when statism they try to achieve.

I have the right to protect my children and the children of my community I don't need no stinking endorsement. Capice?

I don't understand why you're upset about what I just said, because you just said nothing that conflicts with what I said. I said you acting as an individual I do not care. If the school district is tasking their employees with intervening in mass shootings they need to make sure the person they hire knows what they're doing...... You ever heard of this thing called civil court? Wrongful death? Negligent hiring? Negligent business practices? If you go to your kids school, and intervene in a mass shooting, and you make a mistake, civil liability is on you, if principal Victoria and Mr. garrison make a mistake it's on the district, meaning all of us when the check is due.

I already know you don't care if bubba builds his own house and doesn't hurt anyone, if he applies tho work with you, will you just set him unsupervised on one of your job sites with vetting him or making sure he knows what he's doing?
 
Last edited:

Ajetpilot

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Wrong question and shows your mindsets. Rights are not written down.....:rolleyes:

Can you cite where I don't have the right to protect my children or the children of my community?

But since you asked why don't you read the constitution and the 9th amendment. Supposedly you fought for it, yet you don't have clue what it is.

Beat me to it. Precisely and correctly stated.
 

sudden valley gunner

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I don't understand why you're upset about what I just said, because you just said nothing that conflicts with what I said. I said you acting as an individual I do not care. If the school district is tasking their employees with intervening in mass shootings they need to make sure the person they hire knows what they're doing...... You ever heard of this thing called civil court? Wrongful death? Negligent hiring? Negligent business practices? If you go to your kids school, and intervene in a mass shooting, and you make a mistake, civil liability is on you, if principal Victoria and Mr. garrison make a mistake it's on the district, meaning all of us when the check is due.

I already know you don't care if bubba builds his own house and doesn't hurt anyone, if he applies tho work with you, will you just set him unsupervised on one of your job sites with vetting him or making sure he knows what he's doing?

Don't flatter yourself, nothing you say in your statist bubble wrapped protected viewpoints gets me upset.

Yes I have heard of civil courts, now you don't seem to be putting two and two together. Of course someone negligent should pay, and civil courts has nothing to do with you demanding others get "endorsed".

In your own little made up scenario again trying to make a not so subtle ad hominem attempt, you'd rather have the taxpayers and the school on the hook instead of the individual........:rolleyes:

You also have trouble following a line of thought myself and others don't want the school to task employees with intervening. People should have the choice not to intervene too.
 

Primus

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Don't flatter yourself, nothing you say in your statist bubble wrapped protected viewpoints gets me upset.

Yes I have heard of civil courts, now you don't seem to be putting two and two together. Of course someone negligent should pay, and civil courts has nothing to do with you demanding others get "endorsed".

In your own little made up scenario again trying to make a not so subtle ad hominem attempt, you'd rather have the taxpayers and the school on the hook instead of the individual........:rolleyes:

You also have trouble following a line of thought myself and others don't want the school to task employees with intervening. People should have the choice not to intervene too.

Wait.... DONT task the employees with intervening?

So having workers armed to protect kids is BAD now?

Damn your all over the place.....

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EMNofSeattle

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Don't flatter yourself, nothing you say in your statist bubble wrapped protected viewpoints gets me upset.

Yes I have heard of civil courts, now you don't seem to be putting two and two together. Of course someone negligent should pay, and civil courts has nothing to do with you demanding others get "endorsed".

In your own little made up scenario again trying to make a not so subtle ad hominem attempt, you'd rather have the taxpayers and the school on the hook instead of the individual........

You also have trouble following a line of thought myself and others don't want the school to task employees with intervening. People should have the choice not to intervene too.

You're just a ray of sunshine this morning. I didn't demand anyone be "endorsed" I said should a school district officially endorse carrying a gun to protect children by saying "principal Victoria your job now includes stopping school shooters do you want a sig or a glock" then yes they should train that employee. You're literally making up stuff I never said.

If you task an employee with certain job functions, it's your responsibility to ensure they are competent for those tasks. My comment is purely within the funnel of school employees carrying guns. If you're not a school employee you shouldn't have to submit yourself to any additional screening to carry in schools....
 
Last edited:

Primus

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You're just a ray of sunshine this morning. I didn't demand anyone be "endorsed" I said should a school district officially endorse carrying a gun to protect children by saying "principal Victoria your job now includes stopping school shooters do you want a sig or a glock" then yes they should train that employee. You're literally making up stuff I never said.

If you task an employee with certain job functions, it's your responsibility to ensure they are competent for those tasks. My comment is purely within the funnel of school employees carrying guns. If you're not a school employee you shouldn't have to submit yourself to any additional screening to carry in schools....

Agreed 100%

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