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Thread: Have a Missouri Constitutional ?

  1. #1
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    Have a Missouri Constitutional ?

    Where does it say in the Missouri Constitution that the individual towns/bergs etc can limit open carry? Can't find it.

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    It doesn't. That's in the rsmo.

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    Ok but correct me if I am wrong but doesn't the State Constitution over ride rsmo.

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    If the courts decide it does... What in the state constitution makes you think it would override the OC law?

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    The reason I am asking I was discussing Missouri Bill of rights which States: "Right to keep and bear arms--exception.
    Section 23. That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons." Thus would that not make the rsmo the states the remo giving the local municipalities the ability to stop open carry be against the constitution?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jwisecar View Post
    The reason I am asking I was discussing Missouri Bill of rights which States: "Right to keep and bear arms--exception.
    Section 23. That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons." Thus would that not make the rsmo the states the remo giving the local municipalities the ability to stop open carry be against the constitution?
    But then, by that same logic, doesn't the 2nd Amendment of the US Constitution over ride all those "laws."

    A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

    That seems pretty plain spoken to me, therefore every law concerning firearms is illegal...

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    The problem is that the Second Amendment has not been incorporated against the states. Until that happens, it doesn't apply to them. I don't know what MO doesn't work like that, bit the proposed amendment going to voters this November will bolster the argument substantially.

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    Yes I agree it would. But I am asking specifically about Missouri. The reason I asked is in a discussion between myself and a local attorney this came up and he stated that the Constitution trumped rsmo but no one has ever taken this to the high courts in Missouri and I can't find if it has been for open carry.

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    Look at my second reply to you. That is basically what I said.

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    Missouri Constitution Article I Section 23.
    That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned; but this shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons.

    The last part stating shall not justify the wearing of concealed weapons. therefore looking up definitional law would instruct that open carry is the Missouri law of the land according to the first part stating That the right of every citizen to keep and bear arms in defense of his home, person and property, or when lawfully summoned in aid of the civil power, shall not be questioned.

    Hence the discussion as to my question.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kcgunfan View Post
    The problem is that the Second Amendment has not been incorporated against the states. [ ... ]
    The Second Amendment has been incorporated against the states by McDonald v. Chicago, 561 U.S. 742 (2010), The Court held that the right of an individual to "keep and bear arms" protected by the Second Amendment is incorporated by the Due Process Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment and applies to the states.

    http://www.supremecourt.gov/opinions/09pdf/08-1521.pdf Unfortunately there are 88 mentions of incorporation in 214 pages, so you have a lot of reading to catch up on.
    Last edited by Nightmare; 06-08-2014 at 07:34 PM.
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    RSMO 21.750 grants the muni's the power.

    A case in the eastern courts joyce or joiner I forget made it through some appeals and lost but it did not make the whole trip.

    A great many people believe like you that 21.750 is unconstitutional.

    Far fewer have the 250-500k in legal fees it may take to get to the state SC to have it heard.

    Every atty general has deferred to the joyce case and offered the opinion that it IS constitutional to limit OC in such a manner until which time a court overturns it.

    It is indeed likely that the only way MO will see OC without a permit will be through the courts as when you ask the legislature to push such a thing forward it dies a rapid death. Seems like it shouldn't but then again, you are asking those with the power to give up that power and that is not too likely at all.

    Many of us have fought this fight for YEARS and are somewhat weary of the time and monies it takes to get anything done including even getting much of an audience.

    The political game in MO seems to be statistically impossible, like a coin flip. You can flip a coin 20 times and while the odds each time are indeed 50/50, the probability of hitting 20 heads in a row are 0.00009536 % chance which is comparable to the probability of getting the house, senate and Gov to sign off on the editing of 21.750 section 3.

    Story is simple, give me money I will try, give me more money I will try harder, give me more money others are making it tough, give me more money we have a shot, give me a lot of money this is a good year, not sure what happened can you give me more money to find out...REPEAT.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    RSMO 21.750 grants the muni's the power.

    A case in the eastern courts joyce or joiner I forget made it through some appeals and lost but it did not make the whole trip.

    A great many people believe like you that 21.750 is unconstitutional.

    Far fewer have the 250-500k in legal fees it may take to get to the state SC to have it heard.

    Every atty general has deferred to the joyce case and offered the opinion that it IS constitutional to limit OC in such a manner until which time a court overturns it.

    It is indeed likely that the only way MO will see OC without a permit will be through the courts as when you ask the legislature to push such a thing forward it dies a rapid death. Seems like it shouldn't but then again, you are asking those with the power to give up that power and that is not too likely at all.

    Many of us have fought this fight for YEARS and are somewhat weary of the time and monies it takes to get anything done including even getting much of an audience.

    The political game in MO seems to be statistically impossible, like a coin flip. You can flip a coin 20 times and while the odds each time are indeed 50/50, the probability of hitting 20 heads in a row are 0.00009536 % chance which is comparable to the probability of getting the house, senate and Gov to sign off on the editing of 21.750 section 3.

    Story is simple, give me money I will try, give me more money I will try harder, give me more money others are making it tough, give me more money we have a shot, give me a lot of money this is a good year, not sure what happened can you give me more money to find out...REPEAT.
    I'm not sure I have the whole picture! Something about money...right?
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    I'm not sure I have the whole picture! Something about money...right?
    We have the best politicians money can buy in the fight to curtail constitutional carry or even OC without a permit in this state.

    What bothers me about it is the source of the money, I completely get the Muni league as it is a dent in their power but the other sources of funding and lobby against OC blow me away.

    It has been an interesting and informative run that is for sure.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    We have the best politicians money can buy in the fight to curtail constitutional carry or even OC without a permit in this state.

    What bothers me about it is the source of the money, I completely get the Muni league as it is a dent in their power but the other sources of funding and lobby against OC blow me away.

    It has been an interesting and informative run that is for sure.
    Just from my little knowledge, it is surprising at the $$$ that is flowing in. I wish I could have been more involved this session; but I was more involved this session than last year. So hopefully I can be more involved next session than this year.
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Redbaron007 View Post
    Just from my little knowledge, it is surprising at the $$$ that is flowing in. I wish I could have been more involved this session; but I was more involved this session than last year. So hopefully I can be more involved next session than this year.
    Well I hope you can too. I had to pretty much do everything via phone, note or coin as I had 0 time to be in Jeff. The biggest problem this year is what everyone believes is true ain't quite so and not everyone "fighting the fight" is on our side despite the words from their mouths.

    I am just going to raise a glass to my friend Marc should Nixon sign or leave his legislation alone to pass and then fade to black so to speak.
    John C. Eastman Associate Dean of Chapman University’s School of Law "the Second Amendment, like its sister amendments, does not confer a right but rather recognizes a natural right inherent in our humanity."

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    Regular Member JEStucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Well I hope you can too. I had to pretty much do everything via phone, note or coin as I had 0 time to be in Jeff. The biggest problem this year is what everyone believes is true ain't quite so and not everyone "fighting the fight" is on our side despite the words from their mouths.

    I am just going to raise a glass to my friend Marc should Nixon sign or leave his legislation alone to pass and then fade to black so to speak.
    I wanted to be involved more than I was, I made phone calls, wrote emails, wrote letters, but wasn't able to be in Jefferson City either. It wasn't for lack of time, it was all a lack of finances. We just didn't have the extra in the budget for me to burn a tank of gas in one day to drive down and back from Kansas City a multitude of times.

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    Regular Member Redbaron007's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Well I hope you can too. I had to pretty much do everything via phone, note or coin as I had 0 time to be in Jeff. The biggest problem this year is what everyone believes is true ain't quite so and not everyone "fighting the fight" is on our side despite the words from their mouths.

    I am just going to raise a glass to my friend Marc should Nixon sign or leave his legislation alone to pass and then fade to black so to speak.
    I would be happy to join you!
    "I can live for two weeks on a good compliment."
    ~Mark Twain

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    Quote Originally Posted by LMTD View Post
    Well I hope you can too. I had to pretty much do everything via phone, note or coin as I had 0 time to be in Jeff. The biggest problem this year is what everyone believes is true ain't quite so and not everyone "fighting the fight" is on our side despite the words from their mouths.

    I am just going to raise a glass to my friend Marc should Nixon sign or leave his legislation alone to pass and then fade to black so to speak.
    I will drink to that as well!!!!!!

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