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Several question I need answer for Open Carry

JamesCanby

Activist Member
Joined
Jul 2, 2010
Messages
1,480
Location
Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
I can pull the mag out without moving the weapon in the holster but as long as I do not remove the pistol from the holster (without necessary use) I cannot be charged for a crime.

Do not depend on this statement. There are LEOs out there who WILL charge you with a crime based on their own knowledge (misinterpretation) of the law. The charges may not stick but as many have discovered: You may avoid the time, but you will not avoid the ride. Interpreted: You might not be convicted or even brought to trial, but it's likely (depending on your locale) that you may be cuffed, stuffed and given a free ride to where you will be processed and detained until arraignment. It is the judge or prosecutor who will decide if the LEOs acted correctly or not.
 

Bill Starks

State Researcher
Joined
Dec 27, 2007
Messages
4,304
Location
Nortonville, KY, USA
Do not depend on this statement. There are LEOs out there who WILL charge you with a crime based on their own knowledge (misinterpretation) of the law. The charges may not stick but as many have discovered: You may avoid the time, but you will not avoid the ride. Interpreted: You might not be convicted or even brought to trial, but it's likely (depending on your locale) that you may be cuffed, stuffed and given a free ride to where you will be processed and detained until arraignment. It is the judge or prosecutor who will decide if the LEOs acted correctly or not.

A case in Vancouver Washington had the following to say in a Columbian Newspaper article...

Initial reports stated Kirby made no menacing statements or gestures to anyone while he was at the strip mall at 5000 E. Fourth Plain Blvd. He simply stood around for 10 or 15 minutes before someone called 911. But further investigation found witnesses who said they felt Kirby was “going into the draw position,” according to police reports.

feelings got him ticketed.... not an actual crime.
 

OC Freedom

Regular Member
Joined
Feb 20, 2014
Messages
646
Location
ADA County, ID
A case in Vancouver Washington had the following to say in a Columbian Newspaper article...

Initial reports stated Kirby made no menacing statements or gestures to anyone while he was at the strip mall at 5000 E. Fourth Plain Blvd. He simply stood around for 10 or 15 minutes before someone called 911. But further investigation found witnesses who said they felt Kirby was “going into the draw position,” according to police reports.

feelings got him ticketed.... not an actual crime.

Washington's gun laws are the main reason I left last year and moved to Idaho. Open carry has to much risk in Washington with what I call flexible gun laws as you pointed out with Kirby's situation. I like Idaho for its very clear and not as regulated.
 

golddigger14s

Activist Member
Joined
Apr 27, 2010
Messages
2,068
Location
Lawton, OK USA
Golddigger - could you please cite the relevant case on striking down Seattle's old rule for their libraries?

I hassled with this last year at my favorite SPL branch.

Actually there was no case. The library when contacted, just flopped over knowing they were wrong.
http://kuow.org/post/why-seattle-public-library-surrendered-its-gun-ban
Category E:
http://www.spl.org/about-the-library/library-use-policies/rules-of-conduct
"Carrying, exhibiting, displaying, or drawing any firearm in a manner that demonstrates an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." Basically following the RCW. Basically keep your hands off it, don't play with it, don't point it at anybody (unless needed :) )
 

Contrarian

Regular Member
Joined
Sep 18, 2009
Messages
259
Location
Seattle,WA, , USA
flop at the library

Actually there was no case. The library when contacted, just flopped over knowing they were wrong.
http://kuow.org/post/why-seattle-public-library-surrendered-its-gun-ban
Category E:
http://www.spl.org/about-the-library/library-use-policies/rules-of-conduct
"Carrying, exhibiting, displaying, or drawing any firearm in a manner that demonstrates an intent to intimidate another or that warrants alarm for the safety of other persons." Basically following the RCW. Basically keep your hands off it, don't play with it, don't point it at anybody (unless needed :) )

Thank you for the prompt response.
 

Seriona

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
151
Location
Snohomish, WA
Do not depend on this statement. There are LEOs out there who WILL charge you with a crime based on their own knowledge (misinterpretation) of the law. The charges may not stick but as many have discovered: You may avoid the time, but you will not avoid the ride. Interpreted: You might not be convicted or even brought to trial, but it's likely (depending on your locale) that you may be cuffed, stuffed and given a free ride to where you will be processed and detained until arraignment. It is the judge or prosecutor who will decide if the LEOs acted correctly or not.

I do not care if a LEO arrest me, I only care if the charges stick. I can be arrested and held for 24 hrs for no reason. Taking me to jail on a total ******** charge will only embarrass the office and give me a reason to make money off of it.
 

Seriona

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
151
Location
Snohomish, WA
I understand not having a round in the chamber before having a CPL due to the unloaded in a vehicle requirement. However, respectfully, the only person that carrying a gun without a round in the chamber will make any safer is the criminal you might have to use the gun against.

I've been debating loading a round for some time, I will tell you that once I get my CPL, it will be locked and loaded.
 

langenc

Regular Member
Joined
May 19, 2010
Messages
34
Location
Montmorency Co, MI, ,
I can pull the mag out without moving the weapon in the holster but as long as I do not remove the pistol from the holster (without necessary use) I cannot be charged for a crime.

Anyone can be charged with a crime. Does it stick is the question..
Discussing your interpetation of the law at the bus stop will not be good. Better get a lawyer on the payroll.
 
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Seriona

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
151
Location
Snohomish, WA
Anyone can be charged with a crime. Does it stick is the question..
Discussing your interpetation of the law at the bus stop will not be good. Better get a lawyer on the payroll.

The law is quite clear, I am not (by law) causing any need for police by removing the mag.
 

Seriona

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
151
Location
Snohomish, WA
Their is no lesson to be learned. LEO shows up, I tell them that I am removing the mag from the weapon so I can legally enter the bus. They should not arrest me on laws alone. Should they, I have the grounds to sue. I win regardless.
 

Grim_Night

Regular Member
Joined
Aug 5, 2012
Messages
776
Location
Pierce County, Washington
I have personal experience with this issue as I carried openly while I was waiting for my CPL and I did not have a vehicle of my own so had to travel by public transit. My suggestion, get your CPL and carry it with you. Till then, do what you have to in order to be in compliance with the law. If anybody has a problem with it, tell them to bugger off. The only reason you will ever have a problem is if you are like I was and talk to police or if you are blatant about unloading. I can easily remove the mag from my firearm without anybody even knowing, and I use to carry in an underarm holster. Take some time and practice quickly and discretly removing the mag and putting it in your pocket or have an empty mag pouch on your belt. If done right, it will only look like you are adjusting your shirt or your belt (as if you were pulling up your pants or tugging your shirt down so that your firearm is not concealed). Once you have your CPL "in hand", you can forget about having to "unload" and carry on and forget the idiots (the general public) around you. As the old saying goes, "you can't please all of the people all of the time". If somebody has a problem with you doing what is lawful, tell them to take it up with their legislators. Till then, they can leave you the hell alone.

My biggest problem when I first started carrying was that despite the fact that I knew the law and had studied it extensively, I had an overwhelming desire to ask questions of LEOs to make sure I was doing things correctly. The problem is (and I'm sure you can find many topics on these forums) that LEOs either don't know the law or don't care about the law and want to interject their own personal opinions about the issue. So, follow the letter of the law and keep your mouth shut.
 
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Seriona

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
151
Location
Snohomish, WA
I pretty much do that but I do trust the police for two reasons, I am most likely to be shot by a LEO than a criminal and that the person who wears a uniform was human before a LEO so they will always bring personal politics into their judgment even though they should be neutral by their own job. As of right now I OC. But I do not bring attention to it, make it obvious like some people who do and it is usually those people that give OC bad names. Half of the time, I actually forget that I have a pistol on my hip.
 

Rusty Young Man

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 19, 2013
Messages
1,548
Location
Árida Zona
I pretty much do that but I do trust the police for two reasons, I am most likely to be shot by a LEO than a criminal and that the person who wears a uniform was human before a LEO so they will always bring personal politics into their judgment even though they should be neutral by their own job. As of right now I OC. But I do not bring attention to it, make it obvious like some people who do and it is usually those people that give OC bad names. Half of the time, I actually forget that I have a pistol on my hip.

The first part I bolded seems incongruous with the rest of the sentence that follows it.:confused:

The second part I bolded may have been posted in light humour, but could be disastrous if taken at face-value.

To reiterate what has been said, it may be best to stay well on the side of the law (regardless of how illogical and asinine the laws may be) than to risk not getting your CPL; maybe someday citizens of Washington will have a Right to carry, and not a Privilege to carry.:(

One thing you could do is carry a print-out of the applicable laws, with highlighted portions that apply to your current situation. Could help make your case that LEOs had knowledge that your actions were in compliance with the law, yet chose to ignore it (you know, should you end up in the back of a cruiser with steel bracelets on).
 
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FMJ 911

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
350
Location
People's Republic of Snohomishia
Welcome Fellow Snohomishian!

Y'all should gather around for some Coffee and Grits rather than argue on this here forum. Just sayin.

BTW, my P-64 is back in action, so I'll be at Mcdonalds in Snohomish this Sat @ 3:00 PM. Catch me if you can!
 
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Seriona

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
151
Location
Snohomish, WA
Welcome Fellow Snohomishian!

Y'all should gather around for some Coffee and Grits rather than argue on this here forum. Just sayin.

BTW, my P-64 is back in action, so I'll be at Mcdonalds in Snohomish this Sat @ 1:00 PM. Catch me if you can!

I'll walk in that McD at 1PM to get a coke, if you see me, I will be the one with a Colt 1911 on the hip. If you want to talk, just to come to me.

As to Rusty Young Man, I slipped up, I meant to say that I do not trust the law enforcement at all. I respect the law and will never do arm to anyone (unless in defense of course) but I do not trust those who enforce it for said reason, the human trumps the officer.
 

FMJ 911

Regular Member
Joined
Dec 3, 2011
Messages
350
Location
People's Republic of Snohomishia
Oops My Bad..

Earlier post edited.

Made a minor miscalcaution, didn't realise that I'm halping my Dad buy a gun that morning. It's gonna have to be 3ish.

Come on folks, let's make Snohomish our new OC hotspot!
 
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Seriona

Regular Member
Joined
Jun 9, 2014
Messages
151
Location
Snohomish, WA
Earlier post edited.

Made a minor miscalcaution, didn't realise that I'm halping my Dad buy a gun that morning. It's gonna have to be 3ish.

Come on folks, let's make Snohomish our new OC hotspot!

I may not be there as I planned on going to a shooting range that day.
 
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