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Thread: Is This Legal?

  1. #1
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    Is This Legal?

    My friend is not quite 21 yet, but there is a gun show this weekend where I live. Is it legal for me to buy him a handgun? This seems to be a gray area in the law.
    Last edited by give_me_a_glock; 06-10-2014 at 08:35 PM.

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    Legally, even if he receives a handgun as a gift he still has to go through the same process as if he is buying one.

  3. #3
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    uh, nawllll gray area, but you might wish to get your bus money collected so you can visit your friend.

    1. need ppp (issued >18) or chp (must be 21) from the sheriff. (14-402) http://www.ncga.state.nc.us/EnactedL...rticle_52A.pdf

    2. might look up ATF 5300.4 strawman purchase http://www.atf.gov/files/publication...f-p-5300-4.pdf

    (aaron, welcome to the forum, but nawllll your information is incorrect...)

    as a suggestion, you might wish to window shop at the gun shop and when your friend is of legal status, let them buy their own gun using their own background and PPP.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-10-2014 at 09:28 PM. Reason: clarification
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    Regular Member Fallschirmjäger's Avatar
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    Federally.... as long as it's your idea to give him the pistol, and it's your money that you are purchasing it with there is no 'straw purchase' danger. Quoting the ATF:
    Q: May a parent or guardian purchase firearms or ammunition as a gift for a juvenile (less than 18 years of age)?
    Yes. However, possession of handguns by juveniles (less than 18 years of age) is generally unlawful. Juveniles generally may only receive and possess handguns with the written permission of a parent or guardian for limited purposes, e.g., employment, ranching, farming, target practice or hunting.
    [18 U.S.C. 922(x)]
    EDITI note you say "friend" rather than family member. To be on the absolute safe side of the law, I would retain possession of the firearm until he reached the age of majority. That doesn't mean he cannot be lent the firearm, though. But I would not attempt a transfer without some assurance.

    State-wise, § 14-404. Issuance or refusal of permit; appeal from refusal; grounds for refusal; sheriff's fee. is the governing authority for the issuance of a pistol purchase permit.

    (a) Upon application, the sheriff shall issue the permit to a resident of that county, unless the purpose of the permit is for collecting, in which case a sheriff can issue a permit to a nonresident, when the sheriff has done all of the following:
    (1) Verified, before the issuance of a permit, by a criminal history background investigation that it is not a violation of State or federal law for the applicant to purchase, transfer, receive, or possess a handgun. The sheriff shall determine the criminal and background history of any applicant by accessing computerized criminal history records as maintained by the State Bureau of Investigation and the Federal Bureau of Investigation, by conducting a national criminal history records check, by conducting a check through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS), and by conducting a criminal history check through the Administrative Office of the Courts.
    (2) Fully satisfied himself or herself by affidavits, oral evidence, or otherwise, as to the good moral character of the applicant.
    (3) Fully satisfied himself or herself that the applicant desires the possession of the weapon mentioned for (i) the protection of the home, business, person, family or property, (ii) target shooting, (iii) collecting, or (iv) hunting.
    (b) If the sheriff is not fully satisfied, the sheriff may, for good cause shown, decline to issue the permit and shall provide to the applicant within seven days of the refusal a written statement of the reason(s) for the refusal. The statement shall cite the specific facts upon which the sheriff concluded that the applicant was not qualified for the issuance of a permit and list, by statute number, the applicable law upon which the denial is based. An appeal from the refusal shall lie by way of petition to the chief judge of the district court for the district in which the application was filed. The determination by the court, on appeal, shall be upon the facts, the law, and the reasonableness of the sheriff's refusal, and shall be final.

    (b1) The sheriff shall keep a list of all permit denials, with the specific reasons for the denials noted. The list shall not include any information that would identify the applicant whose application was denied. The list, as described in this subsection, shall be a public record, and the sheriff shall make the list available upon request to any member of the public. The list shall be organized by the quarters of the year, showing the number of denials and the reasons in each three-month period, and the list shall only be released for past, completed quarters.
    (c) A permit may not be issued to the following persons:
    (1) One who is under an indictment or information for or has been convicted in any state, or in any court of the United States, of a felony (other than an offense pertaining to antitrust violations, unfair trade practices, or restraints of trade). However, a person who has been convicted of a felony in a court of any state or in a court of the United States and (i) who is later pardoned, or (ii) whose firearms rights have been restored pursuant to G.S. 14-415.4, may obtain a permit, if the purchase or receipt of a pistol permitted in this Article does not violate a condition of the pardon or restoration of firearms rights.
    (2) One who is a fugitive from justice.
    (3) One who is an unlawful user of or addicted to marijuana or any depressant, stimulant, or narcotic drug (as defined in 21 U.S.C. § 802).
    (4) One who has been adjudicated mentally incompetent or has been committed to any mental institution.
    (5) One who is an alien illegally or unlawfully in the United States.
    (6) One who has been discharged from the Armed Forces of the United States under dishonorable conditions.
    (7) One who, having been a citizen of the United States, has renounced his or her citizenship.
    (8) One who is subject to a court order that:
    a. Was issued after a hearing of which the person received actual notice, and at which the person had an opportunity to participate;
    b. Restrains the person from harassing, stalking, or threatening an intimate partner of the person or child of the intimate partner of the person, or engaging in other conduct that would place an intimate partner in reasonable fear of bodily injury to the partner or child; and
    c. Includes a finding that the person represents a credible threat to the physical safety of the intimate partner or child; or by its terms explicitly prohibits the use, attempted use, or threatened use of physical force against the intimate partner or child that would reasonably be expected to cause bodily injury.
    Last edited by Fallschirmjäger; 06-10-2014 at 09:49 PM.

  5. #5
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fallschirmjäger View Post
    Federally.... as long as it's your idea to give him the pistol, and it's your money that you are purchasing it with there is no 'straw purchase' danger.

    State-wise, § 14-404. Issuance or refusal of permit; appeal from refusal; grounds for refusal; sheriff's fee. is the governing authority for the issuance of a pistol purchase permit.
    ok, 5300.4, pg 165: quote Questions have arisen concerning the lawfulness of firearms purchases from licensees by persons who use a "straw purchaser" (another person) to acquire the firearms. Where a person purchases a firearm with the intent of making a gift of the firearm to another person, the person making the purchase is indeed the true purchaser. There is no straw purchaser in these instances. unquote

    so...if it was GMAGlock's idea and they have the financial resources to purchase a firearm for presentation as a gift to his friend, then i might say hello in NB and would even consider becoming a glock fan. and if that is the case, perhaps someone is interested in the bridge i have for sale.

    and as i know you are aware fallschimjager, w/o a PPP or CHP nobody can purchase a firearm in the tarheel state from either a FFL or private citizen.

    ipse
    Last edited by solus; 06-10-2014 at 09:53 PM.
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  6. #6
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    Thanks for the information guys. I think we'll just play it safe and let him wait till he can buy his own handgun.
    Last edited by give_me_a_glock; 06-10-2014 at 10:25 PM.

  7. #7
    Regular Member solus's Avatar
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    GMAGlock, that might be the wisest path...

    ipse
    I'm only human; I do what I can; I'm just a man; I do what I can; Don't put the blame on me; Don't put your blame on me ~ Rag'n'Bone Man.

    Please do not get confused between my personality & my attitude. My personality is who I am ~ my attitude depends on who you are and how you act.

    Remember always, do not judge someone because they sin differently than you do!

    Get your facts first, and then you can distort them as much as you please. Mark Twain

  8. #8
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    He can buy me a gun ... if he wants to buy someone a gun !

    I'll take a 357 mag ...

  9. #9
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    He can buy his own handgun now without waiting until he is 21. All he will need to do is get a pistol purchase permit from his local sheriff dept., when he gets it just have him tell them he wants it for an under 21 private purchase. This way he can only buy from another person, this person just cannot have an FFL. And yes this is legal, im 19 and thats how I got mine. Just got my PPP and bought it from a person I knew.

  10. #10
    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by give_me_a_glock View Post
    Thanks for the information guys. I think we'll just play it safe and let him wait till he can buy his own handgun.
    He can get a handgun now, without a dealer, without a background check, without a PPP, or CHP. The catch is that it must be a antique firearm. I carried one for a long time just because I have shot them over the years and love them. I stopped because if I ever use one in self defense the gun would be junk, because the police take the gun and it will sit in evidence uncleaned. This is like dropping a gun in salt water and letting it sit for months. Other than that a cap and ball revolver is a very good self defense weapon. At close range it blinds, and may set your threat on fire, plus creates a smoke screen to get away.

    Cabelas is a good place to get a cap and ball revolver, and they will ship it to him.
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