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Thread: Duty to Inform?

  1. #1
    Regular Member Blueslant's Avatar
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    Duty to Inform?

    I know that I do not have a duty to inform during a stop, but I have been unable to answer the follow up question by searching (albeit poorly) the forums.

    I will start with the assumption that during the course of the officer running my license, the fact that I have a CPL will become known. If a police officer asks me if I am in possession of a firearm, while I am still in my car, seated, buckled in, etc. Am I required to answer that question? It may be asked and answered, but I was unable to find it.

    I am talking about a normal traffic stop, with absolutely no RAS for anything other than speeding, for example.

  2. #2
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Short answer...

    Officer: Do you have a firearm on your person or in the vehicle?
    You: What is the reason for pulling me over officer?

    Unless it is pertinent to the stop itself, it's none of the officer's business.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

    There are two constants when dealing with liberals:
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    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grim_Night View Post
    Short answer...

    Officer: Do you have a firearm on your person or in the vehicle?
    You: What is the reason for pulling me over officer?

    Unless it is pertinent to the stop itself, it's none of the officer's business.
    How is that question relevant to this stop officer?
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  4. #4
    Campaign Veteran MSG Laigaie's Avatar
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    never been asked

    But......if I am asked, I will be open carrying and that makes it bloody obvious. The LEO would already know about my CPL from dispatch, so how will I answer? "Well, Yes officer, I have a pistol, well holstered. on my right hip." As I am riding the motorcycle almost all the time, it would be the bike I would get stopped on. The LEO would see it with no effort.
    "Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself. They are the people's liberty teeth (and) keystone... the rifle and the pistol are equally indispensable... more than 99% of them by their silence indicate that they are in safe and sane hands. The very atmosphere of firearms everywhere restrains evil interference .When firearms go, all goes, we need them every hour." -- George Washington

  5. #5
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    The last time I got stopped for speeding, State Patrol already knew I had a CPL. When he got to my door he asked if I had a gun, I said yes and said OK just don't touch it. I got my ticket, and I was on my way. Unlike AK, we don't have to inform but don't lie either if asked.
    "The beauty of the Second Amenment is that it will not be needed until they try to take it." Thomas Jefferson
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  6. #6
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    I used to hand over my CPL with my license and inform them, that led to too many stupid lectures and conversations or advice that just wasted my time. I don't say anything about my weapon and if asked any questions, gun, where do I work, where am I going or coming from, I just inform them I will not answer questions and will exercise my right to remain silent.

  7. #7
    Regular Member Maverick9's Avatar
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    I'm starting to think the prudent thing is to not carry your firearm on your person while driving. In a quick access container, you are not 'armed' and have no need to inform or discuss and you won't suffer being disarmed and/or swept with your own handgun.

  8. #8
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 5918mike View Post
    I used to hand over my CPL with my license and inform them, that led to too many stupid lectures and conversations or advice that just wasted my time. I don't say anything about my weapon and if asked any questions, gun, where do I work, where am I going or coming from, I just inform them I will not answer questions and will exercise my right to remain silent.
    I'm becoming fond of the response, "I don't answer probative questions." These are questions that are not directly relevant to the reason the LEO stopped you, such as the ones you listed in your post.

    By using this response, you are indicating that you will respond to questions that relate directly to the reason for the stop, but that you will not answer questions such as the ones you listed since they are used to "fish" for additional information that they can use to expand on their original reason for stopping you.

    Watching the TV show COPS is instructive as to what NOT to do. How many times do we see people that have been stopped for a "taillight out" or a "rolling stop at a stop sign," who are asked all kinds of probative questions that lead to a detention, a search or other fishing techniques where the person has given up all of their rights and has been arrested.

    The best advice -- for you and everyone else in the car -- is, "Keep Your Big Mouth Shut." Truthfully answer questions directly related to the identified infraction -- the reason the LEO stopped you -- and nothing more.

    Next best advice: Carry and use a recorder on every stop...
    Last edited by JamesCanby; 06-12-2014 at 03:33 PM.
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    Regular Member acmariner99's Avatar
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    I have a really really simple solution to this - don't get pulled over! I've only been stopped once and that was before I started carrying. However, since I have Springfield armory and "I love guns and coffee" decals on my truck, I think an officer would think the answer is obvious. I wouldn't lie if I was asked.

  10. #10
    Regular Member badkarma's Avatar
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    I was pulled over a few months ago and from the WaGuns.org and Glock stickers, the WSP officer had the obvious question "Are you armed?" which I had no problem replying "Always" and he asked to take a look at my CWP. He let me go with a warning.

    I could have been an ass and said something completely confrontational and received, what is called by most LEO as a "Stupid Tax" but I was nice and let go with out incident.

    Food for thought. Pick your battles.
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  11. #11
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blueslant View Post
    I know that I do not have a duty to inform during a stop, but I have been unable to answer the follow up question by searching (albeit poorly) the forums.

    I will start with the assumption that during the course of the officer running my license, the fact that I have a CPL will become known. If a police officer asks me if I am in possession of a firearm, while I am still in my car, seated, buckled in, etc. Am I required to answer that question? It may be asked and answered, but I was unable to find it.

    I am talking about a normal traffic stop, with absolutely no RAS for anything other than speeding, for example.
    Personally I would simply truthfully answer if I were carrying,

    Legally speaking, I really can't think of any way they can legally compel you to tell them..... Since possession of a state license to do something isn't RAS of a crime,,,,,,

    However, if the officer was willing to be easy on you and give you a warning for the traffic offense they stopped you for, I can certainly see talking yourself into a ticket..... It may not be right, but that's what could happen...
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 06-12-2014 at 11:04 PM.
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  12. #12
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Personally I would simply truthfully answer if I were carrying,

    Legally speaking, I really can't think of any way they can legally compel you to tell them..... Since possession of a state license to do something isn't RAS of a crime,,,,,,

    However, if the officer was willing to be easy on you and give you a warning for the traffic offense they stopped you for, I can certainly see talking yourself into a ticket..... It may not be right, but that's what could happen...
    Last time I answered in the affirmative, I had to get out of the car, was handcuffed and harassed.

    EDIT:

    The Redmond cops the LT was the one who stopped me, wanted to know who issued my CPL because they showed no record of Redmond issuing one to me. He did not eve know that they are issued by the county Sheriff's department.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 06-13-2014 at 09:17 AM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  13. #13
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    No more duty to inform a guy with a shiny badge and a state issued costume than any other nosy busy body.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  14. #14
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    Personally I would simply truthfully answer if I were carrying,

    Legally speaking, I really can't think of any way they can legally compel you to tell them..... Since possession of a state license to do something isn't RAS of a crime,,,,,,

    However, if the officer was willing to be easy on you and give you a warning for the traffic offense they stopped you for, I can certainly see talking yourself into a ticket..... It may not be right, but that's what could happen...
    I would rather take a traffic citation than to give up my Fifth Amendment rights and answer any questions.

  15. #15
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    No more duty to inform a guy with a shiny badge and a state issued costume than any other nosy busy body.
    Click image for larger version. 

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  16. #16
    Regular Member ()pen(arry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    I would rather take a traffic citation than to give up my Fifth Amendment rights and answer any questions.
    +1

    Priorities, folks. Priorities.

  17. #17
    Regular Member Grim_Night's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    I would rather take a traffic citation than to give up my Fifth Amendment rights and answer any questions.
    My point exactly. I'd rather take the ticket and fight it in court and keep my business to myself.
    Armed and annoyingly well informed!

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    1) Liberals never quit until they are satisfied.
    2) Liberals are never satisfied.

  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    I would rather take a traffic citation than to give up my Fifth Amendment rights and answer any questions.
    +1
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ajetpilot View Post
    I would rather take a traffic citation than to give up my Fifth Amendment rights and answer any questions.
    If you wish to turn every single conversation with a police officer into a constitutional argument then you go right ahead......

    Rights can be used or not at the convienence of those faced with the decision,

    It's not going to turn America into a fascist state if some people choose to cooperate with the authorities who I pay to maintain order.....

    I don't make a habit of mulling illegal drugs or trafficking stolen property, or doing much anything wrong.... So you know what would happen if I chose not to employ a certain right.... Nothing!!!

    That and if I get a traffic ticket it goes on my CSA score which is not good, so I'd rather not have a ticket...

  20. #20
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Its not just a conversation is it EriK?

    Some people realize that perhaps millions have died and sacrificed over the last thousand years to win these rights. They don't take that lightly.


    And yes it does turn to a tryannical state if people cooperate with the unliberty anti right demands of state agents. Germans thought they were free, much like you do.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  21. #21
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Some folks have primal need to placate a cop.

    Cop: Excuse me sir, are you armed?
    Me: ...
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  22. #22
    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Its not just a conversation is it EriK?

    Some people realize that perhaps millions have died and sacrificed over the last thousand years to win these rights. They don't take that lightly.


    And yes it does turn to a tryannical state if people cooperate with the unliberty anti right demands of state agents. Germans thought they were free, much like you do.
    I thought that the German people were free so long as they had their papers, government traveler license(s), bribe money, and the willingness to tell the police everything when an officer start up a simple conversation. Most of those conversations would start with something like, "papers please." Or is that the Union of 50 American states that we are talking about? I am confused they look the same to me.
    Last edited by Freedom1Man; 06-14-2014 at 06:54 PM.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

  23. #23
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Its not just a conversation is it EriK?
    Sometimes yes, sometimes no, I have good enough judgement to know when....
    [QUOTE]


    And yes it does turn to a tryannical state if people cooperate with the unliberty anti right demands of state agents. Germans thought they were free, much like you do.
    Walking the Godwin's law line now are we?

    Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny...... I'm not going to rehash the old arguments I've had with you in the past.. OTher then to say I do not agree with your assessment.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  24. #24
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Wowwie!!!

    [QUOTE=EMNofSeattle;2068941]Sometimes yes, sometimes no, I have good enough judgement to know when....




    Walking the Godwin's law line now are we?

    Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny...... I'm not going to rehash the old arguments I've had with you in the past.. OTher then to say I do not agree with your assessment.
    I have no words to waste replying to you,,,, But, see my new sig line!!

    You have become quotable....
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  25. #25
    Regular Member Ajetpilot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    If you wish to turn every single conversation with a police officer into a constitutional argument then you go right ahead......
    If there is no conversation, there is no argument. I simply refuse to answer any questions, as is my right.

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