Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 49

Thread: Inova Fairfax Medical Office Building

  1. #1
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543

    Inova Fairfax Medical Office Building

    As I walked into the Inova Fairfax Medical Office Building today, I noticed the following prohibition prominently displayed on the front door:

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	2014-06-12 10.19.07.jpg 
Views:	268 
Size:	93.7 KB 
ID:	11698

    (Click on the thumbnail to enlarge.)

    It seems to provide notice of trespass by Concealed Carry, but not by OC. No other signs were evident related to carry of any other type of firearm or other weapon.

    Also, I do not recognize the statutory code referenced in the notice, but I do not think it's state code. I'll do some research on Fairfax County code.
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  2. #2
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    South Chesterfield, VA
    Posts
    315
    That's a Texas state code, required by law at any place that wants to ban concealed carry (They have no handgun open carry). Not sure of the legal ramifications, but I'm certain they can't enforce Texas law in VA.

  3. #3
    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    23235
    Posts
    422
    Inova Health Systems is based in Falls Church. Mysterious citing of TX code.

    μολών λαβέ
    Be active.

  4. #4
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by builtjeep View Post
    That's a Texas state code, required by law at any place that wants to ban concealed carry (They have no handgun open carry). Not sure of the legal ramifications, but I'm certain they can't enforce Texas law in VA.
    Thanks. Looks like another windmill prime for tilting at...
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  5. #5
    Regular Member wrearick's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2013
    Location
    Virginia Beach, Va.
    Posts
    635
    definately looks like a quote from the Texas statues although the wording of the 30.06 signage is different than what I see in the code. Not sure what the as ammended means..... maybe, as ammended to my use in a totally different state and referencing a section that I wrote that says "You can't do that"

  6. #6
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    So .... now I'm wondering if it IS Texas state code, does the notice have the force of law in Virginia? That is, do the words "Trespass", "Holder of a license to carry a concealed handgun", and "May not enter this property" carry specific meaning regardless of the origin of the Code?

    Is a CCer automatically guilty of Trespass by ignoring that notice, or must someone in Hospital authority specifically advise the carrier that they are trespassing?

    I'm just down the street from Inova Alexandria and I'll stop by there to see if they have the same notice on their door.
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  7. #7
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Let's reframe the question, and imagine a sign that reads:

    "Pursuant to Section 13-3112, no permit is required to carry a concealed handgun on this property."

    How do you think that would fly in Virginia? I'll tell you the answer: It would not, because the section of code under reference is Arizona code, and while perfectly legal and acceptable in Arizona, it does not apply to or supersede the Code of Virginia when you are in Virginia. Private property owners are not authorized by the Code of Virginia to allow visitors to ignore the CHP requirement.

    TFred

  8. #8
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Let's reframe the question, and imagine a sign that reads:

    "Pursuant to Section 13-3112, no permit is required to carry a concealed handgun on this property."

    How do you think that would fly in Virginia? I'll tell you the answer: It would not, because the section of code under reference is Arizona code, and while perfectly legal and acceptable in Arizona, it does not apply to or supersede the Code of Virginia when you are in Virginia. Private property owners are not authorized by the Code of Virginia to allow visitors to ignore the CHP requirement.

    TFred
    I agree with you TF, that statutes cited that originate in a different state cannot be prosecuted in Virginia. What I am wondering is if the content of the notice, the words used, are sufficient to convey the notice that carrying a concealed firearm on their property is not allowed. Is it "constructive" notice rather than "legal" notice?

    I'm assuming that the same notice is on the door at Inova Alexandria. If so, should we let well enough alone given that they cannot impose a Texas statute in Virginia, or would bringing this to their attention simply cause them to revise the notice to be Virginia compliant?
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  9. #9
    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Most historic town in, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    7,705
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    I agree with you TF, that statutes cited that originate in a different state cannot be prosecuted in Virginia. What I am wondering is if the content of the notice, the words used, are sufficient to convey the notice that carrying a concealed firearm on their property is not allowed. Is it "constructive" notice rather than "legal" notice?

    I'm assuming that the same notice is on the door at Inova Alexandria. If so, should we let well enough alone given that they cannot impose a Texas statute in Virginia, or would bringing this to their attention simply cause them to revise the notice to be Virginia compliant?
    That is the same old question that has been debated over and over again, with no solid answer: does a mere sign communicating a policy satisfy the "proper notice" required to convict on trespass. I can't help but imagine that should you find yourself in front of a judge, the fact that they cited Texas code would only help your case.

    In the mean time, I guess we can all laugh at them, someone obviously spent money to make the sign, thinking it was important.

    TFred

  10. #10
    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    23235
    Posts
    422
    IMHO, it's definitely worded to make their wishes clear, and that they'd likely prosecute those they deem trespassers. As such, even though signs carry no weight of law in VA, I personally would not carry there. I'm torn over notifying them of their error also. I'd like to see them pay to remove it, but they'd likely post some other nonsense.

    μολών λαβέ
    Be active.

  11. #11
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    IMHO, it's definitely worded to make their wishes clear, and that they'd likely prosecute those they deem trespassers. As such, even though signs carry no weight of law in VA, I personally would not carry there. I'm torn over notifying them of their error also. I'd like to see them pay to remove it, but they'd likely post some other nonsense.

    μολών λαβέ
    You and I are thinking alike... But I'd still like to get someone from there to answer why they are quoting Texas law...
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  12. #12
    Regular Member Liberty-or-Death's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2014
    Location
    23235
    Posts
    422
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    You and I are thinking alike... But I'd still like to get someone from there to answer why they are quoting Texas law...
    +1
    Be active.

  13. #13
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2007
    Location
    Cincy area, Ohio, USA
    Posts
    888
    Quote Originally Posted by JamesCanby View Post
    You and I are thinking alike... But I'd still like to get someone from there to answer why they are quoting Texas law...
    Maybe that medical outfit uses mouthpieces...er, lawyers, that are based in Texas? I could see Inova calling up their attorneys asking for guidance in posting "No Guns" signage. Taking care of this gets passed down from partner to associate to clerk to intern withing the law firm. That kid doesn't realize the difference in the two states' laws, nor is he very motivated to learn.

    "Do not attribute to malice what can be adequetely explained by stupidity". Hanlon's Razor, as many of you already know.
    Last edited by Brian D.; 06-12-2014 at 03:48 PM.

  14. #14
    Regular Member Uber_Olafsun's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
    Location
    Alexandria, Virginia, United States
    Posts
    585
    I go to all the Inova facilities and just have seen the no gun sticker equivalent posted. Next time I go I will have to ask security about it. Was it part of the main bldg?

  15. #15
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by Uber_Olafsun View Post
    I go to all the Inova facilities and just have seen the no gun sticker equivalent posted. Next time I go I will have to ask security about it. Was it part of the main bldg?
    Its on the Inova Fairfax campus, but a separate building from the hospital itself. It's where the doctors have their offices. I do seem to remember, however, that Inova Alexandria has the same Texas statute on its doors. I'll check it out later and respond.
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  16. #16
    Regular Member ProShooter's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2008
    Location
    www.ProactiveShooters.com, Richmond, Va., , USA
    Posts
    4,671
    If you tell them that its Texas law on the sign, they'll change it!
    James Reynolds

    NRA Certified Firearms Instructor - Pistol, Shotgun, Home Firearms Safety, Refuse To Be A Victim
    Concealed Firearms Instructor for Virginia, Florida & Utah permits.
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    Sabre Red Pepper Spray Instructor
    Glock Certified Armorer
    Instructor Bio - http://proactiveshooters.com/about-us/

  17. #17
    Activist Member JamesCanby's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2010
    Location
    Alexandria, VA at www.NoVA-MDSelfDefense.com
    Posts
    1,543
    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    If you tell them that its Texas law on the sign, they'll change it!
    Yeah, that's my feeling too, James. We'd be trading an inoperative notice for one that may be more enforceable.
    Air Force Veteran
    NRA Life Member
    VCDL Member
    NRA Certified Chief Range Safety Officer
    NRA Certified Instructor: Pistol, Rifle, Shotgun, Home Firearm Safety, Personal Protection
    Maryland Qualified Handgun Instructor
    Certified Instructor, Associated Gun Clubs of Baltimore, Inc.
    Member, Mt. Washington Rod & Gun Club
    National Sporting Clays Association Certified Referee

  18. #18
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,597
    Quote Originally Posted by ProShooter View Post
    If you tell them that its Texas law on the sign, they'll change it!
    Why don't yall open carry your long guns in there like we do in Texas.....
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

  19. #19
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Richmond, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,171
    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    Why don't yall open carry your long guns in there like we do in Texas.....
    Seriously?? Long guns????

    Sorry you don't have open carry like Virginia, but No thanks.
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 06-13-2014 at 12:23 AM.

  20. #20
    Moderator / Administrator Grapeshot's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2006
    Location
    North Chesterfield, Va.
    Posts
    34,605
    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    Why don't yall open carry your long guns in there like we do in Texas.....
    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Seriously?? Long guns????

    Sorry you don't have open carry like Virginia, but No thanks.
    It's a matter of effective public relations and long gun carry, while for the most part is legal, is not our focal point.

    Presently the goal is not to challenge the entire concept of the Second Amendment here on OCDO, but to further the right to open carry handguns throughout our normal day. We've done pretty well to that regard - still room for improvement though.
    You will not rise to the occasion; you will fall back on your level of training.” Archilochus, 650 BC

    Old and treacherous will beat young and skilled every time. Yata hey.

  21. #21
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Virginia
    Posts
    1,182
    Quote Originally Posted by va_tazdad View Post
    Seriously?? Long guns????

    Sorry you don't have open carry like Virginia, but No thanks.
    I'm guessing that he was being extremely sarcastic.

  22. #22
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2013
    Location
    Dallas
    Posts
    1,597

    Inova Fairfax Medical Office Building

    Yes here in Texas that is the only OC option we have. If you're gonna cite Texas law, would assume you would get Texas consequences.. All kidding aside since the property is not in Texas this citation is not legally enforceable in VA.

    I would certainly let this dog lie and ignore it. Even though OC is legal in VA, looks to me the intent of this private property owner is against some form of armed personal protection so I would CC there and certainly NOT raise the issue they change their sign to cite correct VA statute for a GFZ..


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Last edited by HPmatt; 06-13-2014 at 08:00 AM. Reason: tiny print prevented proper post
    “Men live without other security than what their own strength and their own invention shall furnish them"
    -Thomas Hobbes 1651

  23. #23
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    Quote Originally Posted by Liberty-or-Death View Post
    Inova Health Systems is based in Falls Church. Mysterious citing of TX code.

    μολών λαβέ
    That would most likely be Fairfax since Falls Church is tiny (2.2 square miles). If you are referring to the installation in Merrifield on Gallows Road, that's not Falls Church. That's Fairfax.


    (corrections are welcome)
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  24. #24
    Regular Member SouthernBoy's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2007
    Location
    Western Prince William County, Virginia, USA
    Posts
    5,849
    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    Let's reframe the question, and imagine a sign that reads:

    "Pursuant to Section 13-3112, no permit is required to carry a concealed handgun on this property."

    How do you think that would fly in Virginia? I'll tell you the answer: It would not, because the section of code under reference is Arizona code, and while perfectly legal and acceptable in Arizona, it does not apply to or supersede the Code of Virginia when you are in Virginia. Private property owners are not authorized by the Code of Virginia to allow visitors to ignore the CHP requirement.

    TFred
    Really? I was not aware of this. Suppose I visit a friend's jewelry store and do not have a permit (or one on my person) and he says, "Don't worry about it. This is my business and you can conceal here if you wish".

    Or suppose I go over to a friend's house to watch a football game and he tells me that I can conceal my sidearm if I want to.

    Are either of these scenarios illegal in Virginia if you are not carrying a CHP?
    In the final seconds of your life, just before your killer is about to dispatch you to that great eternal darkness, what would you rather have in your hand? A cell phone or a gun?

    Si vis pacem, para bellum.

    America First!

  25. #25
    Regular Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Location
    Pacific Northwest
    Posts
    623
    Quote Originally Posted by SouthernBoy View Post
    That would most likely be Fairfax since Falls Church is tiny (2.2 square miles). If you are referring to the installation in Merrifield on Gallows Road, that's not Falls Church. That's Fairfax.


    (corrections are welcome)
    It is in Fairfax County, but it has a Falls Church mailing address, because it is served by a Falls Church post office.

    I seem to recall that there was a thread about a similar sign posted at another building near Inova Fair Oaks Hospital.
    Alma 43:47 - "And again, the Lord has said that: Ye shall defend your families even unto bloodshed...."
    Self defense isn't just a good idea, it's a commandment.

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •