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Thread: okay so iraq is gone

  1. #1
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    okay so iraq is gone

    I supported the war and I believed America could topple the dictator and implement a government that would be mostly democratic and eventually lead to democracy and a much better country.

    I think that goal was heading in the right direction until Obama decided he didn't want Bush and America and democracy to prevail in Iraq.

    Well, Iraq appears now to be gone.

    Who is to blame ? I don't know.

    I believe now that America should never have gone to war in Iraq. We wasted the valuable lives of 4,500 Americans and trillions of dollars.

    Oh well.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    How soon we forgot Vietnam, seems we never learn.
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NosePicker View Post
    I supported the war..<snip>..
    You were foolish...live and learn !

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    Warmongering Republicans, of course, blast the president for ending the war in Iraq and ignore that it was a departure set in motion by the Bush Administration

    The last U.S. troops left Iraq in December 2011, while Barack Obama was president, but the “status of forces agreement” that governed the departure of U.S. troops was actually negotiated between Iraqi and U.S. officials in late 2008, under the auspices of President George W. Bush. In fact, none other than the Huffington Post actually pointed out that as president, Obama was actually interested in keeping troops in Iraq past the agreed-upon 2011 deadline, explaining that “the president ultimately had no choice but to stick to candidate Obama's plan -- thanks, of all things, to an agreement signed by George W. Bush.” Just six months before the Bush deadline, Obama tried to foist 10,000 U.S. troops on the Iraqis past 2011.

    Yes, much better to have followed the McCain strategy and remain fighting in Iraq until 2025. That way we could lose a few thousand more American lives before we leave and it all goes to sh*t the same way it is going now.

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    the muslim militia posted pictures today where they have already repainted our humvees with their islamic flag

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Yep no fighting for our liberties there what a waste of human life and destruction of our liberties.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  7. #7
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Warmongering Republicans, of course, blast the president for ending the war in Iraq and ignore that it was a departure set in motion by the Bush Administration

    The last U.S. troops left Iraq in December 2011, while Barack Obama was president, but the “status of forces agreement” that governed the departure of U.S. troops was actually negotiated between Iraqi and U.S. officials in late 2008, under the auspices of President George W. Bush. In fact, none other than the Huffington Post actually pointed out that as president, Obama was actually interested in keeping troops in Iraq past the agreed-upon 2011 deadline, explaining that “the president ultimately had no choice but to stick to candidate Obama's plan -- thanks, of all things, to an agreement signed by George W. Bush.” Just six months before the Bush deadline, Obama tried to foist 10,000 U.S. troops on the Iraqis past 2011.

    Yes, much better to have followed the McCain strategy and remain fighting in Iraq until 2025. That way we could lose a few thousand more American lives before we leave and it all goes to sh*t the same way it is going now.
    LOL...yea because Hilary and Kerry were against the war.....

    Obamas droned how many kids to death? Wanted to bomb Syria, had his hands dirty in Libya.....please tell us more fairy tales about democrats who got us involved in.....WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, Balkans etc...
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Who is to blame? The Iraqis, of course. If they really wanted peace and stability in their country, they'd fight for it and they'd keep their government secular. There is no possible way you can have a Sunni or Shi'ite government in that country and have stability. One will always want to take over the other.

    But nope, they just had to have a religious government, and the soldiers that WE TRAINED are laying down their arms and running away because they don't have the morale to save their country.

    Well you know what, I say let them fight it out. Let them all kill themselves until they realize that it doesn't matter who the descendants of Muhammed are. Because NO amount of intervention from Team America World Police is going to help them realize that.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

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    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Maliki is Sunni like Iranians and Taliban are Shiite. Seeing the Iranians sending their troops to secure as much territory as they can. Understand Kurds have secured their area in the North.

    I think Kerry and Obama never finalized the Status of Forces Treaty and just walked away from it. There was the political battle w Bush and McLame about 'what date would US troops be out of Iraq vs Saying we will stay For as long as it Takes' to make sure Iraq was stable and the freedom was secure. Given the history and at least 3 major factions in Iraq this would be forever. Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds.


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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    How soon we forgot Vietnam, seems we never learn.
    Oh my! So true. Bring me to tears.

    Read George Santayana 1905 The Life of Reason, Reason in Common Sense, where he declared our doom for not remembering our "the past."

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    America is on the brink of collapse.

    When the artificial peace and prosperity we currently "enjoy" disappears, we will suffer for the Imperialism that has caused death and destruction around the globe. I fear our children will know exactly what those living in third world war torn countries endure.

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    There is no prosperity is the message of OWS.

    Iraq violence slingshots Brent, WTI to highest levels of 2014 http://www.cnbc.com/id/101752227
    US$113/bbl means that a dollar has fallen to 1/113 the value of a barrel of oil. Similarly, a market at 16,900 without any increase in national value should scream inflation. That it has not become apparent to the demos is evidence of blissfull ignorance.

    Peace? Where's that Sheriff saying "America's a war zone."
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  13. #13
    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Been going on for 1300 years plus.

    US foreign policy in Persia = http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

  14. #14
    Regular Member HPmatt's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff. State View Post
    America is on the brink of collapse.

    When the artificial peace and prosperity we currently "enjoy" disappears, we will suffer for the Imperialism that has caused death and destruction around the globe..
    I disagree with these two points.
    1) certainly the Federal Government has created many ponzu scenes and many states are fiscally irresponsible - unless the fiscal battleship's course is changed there w/b big financial trouble and their guarantees will not be honored. But for those states, corporations and citizens not doing crazy things there w/b a path forward w pain. Important thing is that US debt is in US dollars.
    2) US is not Imperial but kind of stupid (politicians). Ask Europeans, Koreans, Vietnam and Iraqis and Libyans (be careful what you ask for). If you need our military help, make sure you get it done I under 4 years.


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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    You were foolish...live and learn !
    I agree. The ME has been a septic tank forever. Ya can't at gun point make bad people be nice to each other.

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    Quote Originally Posted by beebobby View Post
    Warmongering Republicans, of course, blast the president for ending the war in Iraq and ignore that it was a departure set in motion by the Bush Administration
    Regardless of whomever is responsible for starting it, it was a foolish move. WE have learned nothing in the past 50 years. Remember Vietnam???? Well, guess who got us in there??? Remember a guy named Kennedy??? He was the one that sent military "advisors" to make sure Communism didn't spread throughout the country, then Johnson (another Democrat) escalated the war over the next 4 or 5 years. And who finally got us out? The Republican crook Tricky Dick Nixon. So you really can't pin these experiments in spreading "Americanism" on any one party, both are equally culpable. Politicians do whatever is the most expedient for their own situation. We as a nation should take the stance that if it comes down to fighting, we should only be doing so at our own borders. If we had deployed the military presence on our Southern border that we have sent to Iraq and Afghanistan, we wouldn't have the problems with the massive influx of illegals that we have now. If we had left Sadam Hussein alone in Iraq, it would be stable now. Certainly a dictatorship, but a stable dictatorship which at one time was our ally against Iran, a fanatical religious dictatorship who is close to having a nuclear weapon with which to destroy Israel or send to this country. Even though Hussein was a tyrannical dictator, he was our ally and did fight against the Iranians.

    You can blame the politicians in general for playing politics with war and sending our troops to their death for a cause that can not be sustained. WE can't impose our values on other societies that have been killing each other for years over religious differences, and we are foolish for even thinking we can change the situation. We need to stay out of other countries and let them kill each other off. When they head here for a fight, we should be in a position to give it to them.
    Last edited by RK3369; 06-13-2014 at 09:41 AM.

  17. #17
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HPmatt View Post
    I disagree with these two points.
    1) certainly the Federal Government has created many ponzu scenes and many states are fiscally irresponsible - unless the fiscal battleship's course is changed there w/b big financial trouble and their guarantees will not be honored. But for those states, corporations and citizens not doing crazy things there w/b a path forward w pain. Important thing is that US debt is in US dollars.
    2) US is not Imperial but kind of stupid (politicians). Ask Europeans, Koreans, Vietnam and Iraqis and Libyans (be careful what you ask for). If you need our military help, make sure you get it done I under 4 years.


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    US is very imperial and have been for some time. 900 bases world wide isn't an act of "self defense".
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Analyst: Fall Of Baghdad Would Make Current Gas Prices ‘Look Like A Bargain’

    “They think that Baghdad will not fall and that will be a more spirited defense of that city,” Flynn said. “But if it does fall and if the terrorists move further south, the price you’re paying at the pump today is gonna look like a bargain in a couple weeks.” CBS News reports that a cellphone video from the Kurdish-controlled city of Irbil in northern Iraq showed the Islamic militants putting on a show of force in Mosul, parading vehicles captured from Iraq’s military through the country’s second biggest city. A fighter using a loudspeaker urged the people to join the militant group “to liberate Baghdad and Jerusalem,” according to CBS News. President Barack Obama said Friday he is weighing a range of options for countering the violent Islamic insurgency in Iraq, but he warned government leaders in Baghdad the U.S. will not take military action unless they move to address deep-seated political troubles.

    http://losangeles.cbslocal.com/2014/...ike-a-bargain/
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  19. #19
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    You mean he might dupe more young men into thinking they are somehow fighting for our liberties and constitution?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  20. #20
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    I commend the OP for looking at the evidence and changing opinions. A lot of people wouldn't do that. Even fewer would publicly say so.

    I think a nation of people who know how to defend themselves and have the means to do so is a far better defense than far flung foreign adventures.

  21. #21
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterNSteinmetz View Post
    I commend the OP for looking at the evidence and changing opinions. A lot of people wouldn't do that. Even fewer would publicly say so.

    I think a nation of people who know how to defend themselves and have the means to do so is a far better defense than far flung foreign adventures.
    +1 Good point about the OP, he opened his eyes and his mind. He has started a wonderful journey away from nationalistic jingoism.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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