okay so iraq is gone

I supported the war and I believed America could topple the dictator and implement a government that would be mostly democratic and eventually lead to democracy and a much better country.

I think that goal was heading in the right direction until Obama decided he didn't want Bush and America and democracy to prevail in Iraq.

Well, Iraq appears now to be gone.

Who is to blame ? I don't know.

I believe now that America should never have gone to war in Iraq. We wasted the valuable lives of 4,500 Americans and trillions of dollars.

Oh well.

How soon we forgot Vietnam, seems we never learn.

NosePicker said:

I supported the war..<snip>..

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You were foolish...live and learn !

Warmongering Republicans, of course, blast the president for ending the war in Iraq and ignore that it was a departure set in motion by the Bush Administration

The last U.S. troops left Iraq in December 2011, while Barack Obama was president, but the “status of forces agreement” that governed the departure of U.S. troops was actually negotiated between Iraqi and U.S. officials in late 2008, under the auspices of President George W. Bush. In fact, none other than the Huffington Post actually pointed out that as president, Obama was actually interested in keeping troops in Iraq past the agreed-upon 2011 deadline, explaining that “the president ultimately had no choice but to stick to candidate Obama's plan -- thanks, of all things, to an agreement signed by George W. Bush.” Just six months before the Bush deadline, Obama tried to foist 10,000 U.S. troops on the Iraqis past 2011.

Yes, much better to have followed the McCain strategy and remain fighting in Iraq until 2025. That way we could lose a few thousand more American lives before we leave and it all goes to sh*t the same way it is going now.

the muslim militia posted pictures today where they have already repainted our humvees with their islamic flag

Yep no fighting for our liberties there what a waste of human life and destruction of our liberties.

beebobby said:

Warmongering Republicans, of course, blast the president for ending the war in Iraq and ignore that it was a departure set in motion by the Bush Administration

The last U.S. troops left Iraq in December 2011, while Barack Obama was president, but the “status of forces agreement” that governed the departure of U.S. troops was actually negotiated between Iraqi and U.S. officials in late 2008, under the auspices of President George W. Bush. In fact, none other than the Huffington Post actually pointed out that as president, Obama was actually interested in keeping troops in Iraq past the agreed-upon 2011 deadline, explaining that “the president ultimately had no choice but to stick to candidate Obama's plan -- thanks, of all things, to an agreement signed by George W. Bush.” Just six months before the Bush deadline, Obama tried to foist 10,000 U.S. troops on the Iraqis past 2011.

Yes, much better to have followed the McCain strategy and remain fighting in Iraq until 2025. That way we could lose a few thousand more American lives before we leave and it all goes to sh*t the same way it is going now.

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LOL...yea because Hilary and Kerry were against the war.....

Obamas droned how many kids to death? Wanted to bomb Syria, had his hands dirty in Libya.....please tell us more fairy tales about democrats who got us involved in.....WWI, WWII, Korean War, Vietnam, Balkans etc...

Who is to blame? The Iraqis, of course. If they really wanted peace and stability in their country, they'd fight for it and they'd keep their government secular. There is no possible way you can have a Sunni or Shi'ite government in that country and have stability. One will always want to take over the other.

But nope, they just had to have a religious government, and the soldiers that WE TRAINED are laying down their arms and running away because they don't have the morale to save their country.

Well you know what, I say let them fight it out. Let them all kill themselves until they realize that it doesn't matter who the descendants of Muhammed are. Because NO amount of intervention from Team America World Police is going to help them realize that.

Maliki is Sunni like Iranians and Taliban are Shiite. Seeing the Iranians sending their troops to secure as much territory as they can. Understand Kurds have secured their area in the North.

I think Kerry and Obama never finalized the Status of Forces Treaty and just walked away from it. There was the political battle w Bush and McLame about 'what date would US troops be out of Iraq vs Saying we will stay For as long as it Takes' to make sure Iraq was stable and the freedom was secure. Given the history and at least 3 major factions in Iraq this would be forever. Sunnis, Shiites, and Kurds.


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America is on the brink of collapse.

When the artificial peace and prosperity we currently "enjoy" disappears, we will suffer for the Imperialism that has caused death and destruction around the globe. I fear our children will know exactly what those living in third world war torn countries endure.

Been going on for 1300 years plus.

US foreign policy in Persia = http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/arrogance

Jeff. State said:

America is on the brink of collapse.

When the artificial peace and prosperity we currently "enjoy" disappears, we will suffer for the Imperialism that has caused death and destruction around the globe..

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I disagree with these two points.
1) certainly the Federal Government has created many ponzu scenes and many states are fiscally irresponsible - unless the fiscal battleship's course is changed there w/b big financial trouble and their guarantees will not be honored. But for those states, corporations and citizens not doing crazy things there w/b a path forward w pain. Important thing is that US debt is in US dollars.
2) US is not Imperial but kind of stupid (politicians). Ask Europeans, Koreans, Vietnam and Iraqis and Libyans (be careful what you ask for). If you need our military help, make sure you get it done I under 4 years.


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davidmcbeth said:

You were foolish...live and learn !

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I agree. The ME has been a septic tank forever. Ya can't at gun point make bad people be nice to each other.

beebobby said:

Warmongering Republicans, of course, blast the president for ending the war in Iraq and ignore that it was a departure set in motion by the Bush Administration

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Regardless of whomever is responsible for starting it, it was a foolish move. WE have learned nothing in the past 50 years. Remember Vietnam???? Well, guess who got us in there??? Remember a guy named Kennedy??? He was the one that sent military "advisors" to make sure Communism didn't spread throughout the country, then Johnson (another Democrat) escalated the war over the next 4 or 5 years. And who finally got us out? The Republican crook Tricky Dick Nixon. So you really can't pin these experiments in spreading "Americanism" on any one party, both are equally culpable. Politicians do whatever is the most expedient for their own situation. We as a nation should take the stance that if it comes down to fighting, we should only be doing so at our own borders. If we had deployed the military presence on our Southern border that we have sent to Iraq and Afghanistan, we wouldn't have the problems with the massive influx of illegals that we have now. If we had left Sadam Hussein alone in Iraq, it would be stable now. Certainly a dictatorship, but a stable dictatorship which at one time was our ally against Iran, a fanatical religious dictatorship who is close to having a nuclear weapon with which to destroy Israel or send to this country. Even though Hussein was a tyrannical dictator, he was our ally and did fight against the Iranians.

You can blame the politicians in general for playing politics with war and sending our troops to their death for a cause that can not be sustained. WE can't impose our values on other societies that have been killing each other for years over religious differences, and we are foolish for even thinking we can change the situation. We need to stay out of other countries and let them kill each other off. When they head here for a fight, we should be in a position to give it to them.

HPmatt said:

I disagree with these two points.
1) certainly the Federal Government has created many ponzu scenes and many states are fiscally irresponsible - unless the fiscal battleship's course is changed there w/b big financial trouble and their guarantees will not be honored. But for those states, corporations and citizens not doing crazy things there w/b a path forward w pain. Important thing is that US debt is in US dollars.
2) US is not Imperial but kind of stupid (politicians). Ask Europeans, Koreans, Vietnam and Iraqis and Libyans (be careful what you ask for). If you need our military help, make sure you get it done I under 4 years.


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US is very imperial and have been for some time. 900 bases world wide isn't an act of "self defense".

You mean he might dupe more young men into thinking they are somehow fighting for our liberties and constitution?

I commend the OP for looking at the evidence and changing opinions. A lot of people wouldn't do that. Even fewer would publicly say so.

I think a nation of people who know how to defend themselves and have the means to do so is a far better defense than far flung foreign adventures.

PeterNSteinmetz said:

I commend the OP for looking at the evidence and changing opinions. A lot of people wouldn't do that. Even fewer would publicly say so.

I think a nation of people who know how to defend themselves and have the means to do so is a far better defense than far flung foreign adventures.

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+1 Good point about the OP, he opened his eyes and his mind. He has started a wonderful journey away from nationalistic jingoism.