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Thread: CCW in Tucson

  1. #1
    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
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    CCW in Tucson

    Hi all im looking to take my ccw class but dont want to spend 8 hours from my day off at work sitting in a class, what other options do i have? is that online ccw class legit? could any NRA instructor just give me a 4 hour class and certify me or something like that?

    thanks for your help.

  2. #2
    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackersillo View Post
    Hi all im looking to take my ccw class but dont want to spend 8 hours from my day off at work sitting in a class, what other options do i have? is that online ccw class legit? could any NRA instructor just give me a 4 hour class and certify me or something like that?

    thanks for your help.
    First - Welcome.

    Now to the learning - AZ has Constitutional carry - this means any non prohibited / law-abiding adult age 21 or older may conceal carry (AzCDL promotes the term discreet carry as do I), without need of a permit. There are limits and restrictions though so consult the ARS links provide in this sub forum via sticky.

    If you still want the CCW look under the applicant tab for your requirements.
    http://www.azdps.gov/services/concealed_weapons/

    Edit to remove bad info.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 06-13-2014 at 05:25 PM.
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    http://www.azccwclasses.com/az-ccw-online-course.html


    google 5 sec

    is is good? I would suggest using your google-fu for an additional couple of minutes.

    But I agree .. stupid stupid training classes ... waste of time and $$$ .. and meant to be
    Last edited by davidmcbeth; 06-13-2014 at 04:32 AM.

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    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    IIRC AZ waived the classroom/live fire/range time requirements last year. So basically you can get the new "super Mario" permit online if I understand correctly.
    Not quite.

    Arizona never waived any requirements. However we (AzCDL) got the law ARS 13-3112.N changed several years ago to allow for Hunter Safety and NRA classes, along with military service, etc.

    Where things went awry was DPS (the folks who issue the permit) not doing due diligence about NRA training.

    What happened was at least one NRA instructor is offering an online course. Because it was an NRA taught course, DPS issued the permit. However, the online course is illegitimate in NRA's eyes and in my opinion illegal under state law.

    The NRA requires any NRA instructor (I am one) who teaches using their NRA credentials to only teach NRA approved courses. There are no online NRA approved pistol classes. Therefore the online class that is offered does not meet the requirement of ARS 13-3112.N.1 or N.5 because it is not an NRA sanctioned course. However DPS has turned a blind eye towards it.

    I recommend taking a classroom course for your CCW permit, not because I believe in government mandates, but because it's a good foundation for basic gun safety, which from my experience is severely lacking in the overwhelming majority of gun owners.

    Fred

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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    Not quite.

    Arizona never waived any requirements. However we (AzCDL) got the law ARS 13-3112.N changed several years ago to allow for Hunter Safety and NRA classes, along with military service, etc.

    Where things went awry was DPS (the folks who issue the permit) not doing due diligence about NRA training.

    What happened was at least one NRA instructor is offering an online course. Because it was an NRA taught course, DPS issued the permit. However, the online course is illegitimate in NRA's eyes and in my opinion illegal under state law.

    The NRA requires any NRA instructor (I am one) who teaches using their NRA credentials to only teach NRA approved courses. There are no online NRA approved pistol classes. Therefore the online class that is offered does not meet the requirement of ARS 13-3112.N.1 or N.5 because it is not an NRA sanctioned course. However DPS has turned a blind eye towards it.

    I recommend taking a classroom course for your CCW permit, not because I believe in government mandates, but because it's a good foundation for basic gun safety, which from my experience is severely lacking in the overwhelming majority of gun owners.

    Fred
    I would think an online class would be better ... as far as safety goes as one could a) do it at their own pace b) revisit a section if they wish

    The NRA just wants $$$.

  6. #6
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    I would think an online class would be better ... as far as safety goes as one could a) do it at their own pace b) revisit a section if they wish
    The NRA just wants $$$.
    Keep in mind that you also have to pay for the online class where you probably never even talk to an instructor.

    Yes, stuff like where you can and can't carry, the laws, etc. can be learned online or from reading a book. For the Florida permit, they send you a document containing the law and say sign that you read and understand the law.

    Even the safety rules can be absorbed from reading. However my experience is that very few practice what they read. I get "unloaded" guns pointed at me with fingers on triggers on a regular basis when I volunteer at the local county range.

    The primary flaw of an online course and any bare bones CCW course is that all you learn about is how to "Carry" a pistol, not how to use it.

    Regardless of what course you take or whether or not you have a CCW permit, I strongly recommend taking a defensive pistol course to learn "skill at arms" and how to defend yourself with a gun. That's stuff you can't learn from reading books or watching online.

    Fred

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    Regular Member FreeInAZ's Avatar
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    Thanks for the info Fred. I took my class from a NRA instructor 4 hours class / 4 hours range & 100 rounds minimum fired (scored). While most of it was refresher for many there the live fire was telling, as a couple students could not hit the side of a barn moving slowly at them. The instructors worked with them a lot to get them at the 7O% on target rate (9, 10 ring) they wanted to see. Not everyone can shoot, but it nice to see experienced instructors working nicely & patiently to get them on the right track. Doing is always better in my opinion vs picturing in ones mind only. YMMV.
    Last edited by FreeInAZ; 06-13-2014 at 05:21 PM.
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    "You must be the change you wish to see in the world" by Mahatma Gandhi

    “Your beliefs become your thoughts. Your thoughts become your words. Your words become your actions. Your actions become your habits. Your habits become your values. Your values become your destiny.” by Mahatma Gandhi

  8. #8
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FreeInAZ View Post
    Thanks for the info Fred. I took my class from a NRA instructor 4 hours class / 4 hours range & 100 rounds minimum fired (scored). While most of it was refresher for many there the live fire was telling, as a couple students could not hit the side of a barn moving slowly at them. The instructors worked with them a lot to get them at the 7O% on target rate (9, 10 ring) they wanted to see. Not everyone can shoot, but it nice to see experienced instructors working nicely & patiently to get them on the right track. Doing is always better in my opinion vs picturing in ones mind only. YMMV.
    I spend a lot of my range volunteer time teaching people to shoot. If a person is listening, I can get them consistently hitting the "X" in about 15 minutes. With a little practice they're making ragged holes at 5 yards after about another 15 minutes.

    Most guys think that because they have a **** they are natural shooters and everything they know about guns they get from watching action movies. At the range they treat the trigger like a hand exercise device, typically shooting the bottom of the frame. They think doing good is a shotgun pattern all over the target. And, they always blame the gun when they do poorly.

    /rant off

    Fred
    Last edited by Grapeshot; 08-13-2014 at 06:31 AM. Reason: Verbiage

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    Regular Member crackersillo's Avatar
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    Thank you all for your replies.


    Any recommendations on places were i can take the course?

    Besides the obvious (marksman) I'm looking for something not to time consuming and not to basic, I'm not new to guns and i know my rights, state and federal laws regarding carrying and handling police encounters.. Giving verbal commands and not just shooting the would be "bad guy" (hypothetically speaking) getting 911 on the phone asap, et cetera (i learned a lot from you guys here) i have a uspc45 with 5k through it and carry every were i go.

    Im thinking something more like a pistol course that will also qualify me for the CCW.

    Not that i don't like the marksman but 8 hrs for a everyday working man is a lot of time, maybe a two day class?


    Thank you all.

  10. #10
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by crackersillo View Post
    Any recommendations on places were i can take the course? Im thinking something more like a pistol course that will also qualify me for the CCW.Not that i don't like the marksman but 8 hrs for a everyday working man is a lot of time, maybe a two day class?
    At the Pima County Range where I volunteer, I see Chester Manning run students through the shooting portion of his courses all the time.

    AzCDL's Media Maven, Charles Heller, teaches CCW courses out of his home.

    You can also check with the NRA for Instructors in the area. The 8 hour Basic Pistol course covers is very good. There is also a 4 hour "FIRST Steps" course that I'm pretty sure meets the Arizona CCW requirements.

    I no longer teach CCW classes (running AzCDL occupies all my time), but if you want some fine tuning (or basic instructions) on shooting I'll be happy to help on the days I volunteer at the range. You can contact me at treasurer@azcdl.org to find out when I'm there. I volunteer at the Tucson Mountain Park as a line safety officer.

    Regardless of what you do to get your CCW permit, I strongly encourage you to take a tactical pistol class. For the last 9 years, I've been training at Front Sight in Nevada. There is also Gunsite here in Arizona (I've trained there also) and several local instructors that offer defensive/tactical pistol classes.

    Now for the shameless plug. If anyone is interested in attending a Front Sight class, every Spring we (AzCDL) pull together a group to attend the 4-day shooting class at Front Sight. It's not boot camp or Rambo school. It's the fundamentals of defending yourself with a pistol.

    We also offer their Diamond Lifetime memberships (all classes they offer for as many times as you want) at our online store for only $200.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 06-14-2014 at 11:33 AM.

  11. #11
    Regular Member Primus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by azcdlfred View Post
    At the Pima County Range where I volunteer, I see Chester Manning run students through the shooting portion of his courses all the time.

    AzCDL's Media Maven, Charles Heller, teaches CCW courses out of his home.

    You can also check with the NRA for Instructors in the area. The 8 hour Basic Pistol course covers is very good. There is also a 4 hour "FIRST Steps" course that I'm pretty sure meets the Arizona CCW requirements.

    I no longer teach CCW classes (running AzCDL occupies all my time), but if you want some fine tuning (or basic instructions) on shooting I'll be happy to help on the days I volunteer at the range. You can contact me at treasurer@azcdl.org to find out when I'm there. I volunteer at the Tucson Mountain Park as a line safety officer.

    Regardless of what you do to get your CCW permit, I strongly encourage you to take a tactical pistol class. For the last 9 years, I've been training at Front Sight in Nevada. There is also Gunsite here in Arizona (I've trained there also) and several local instructors that offer defensive/tactical pistol classes.

    Now for the shameless plug. If anyone is interested in attending a Front Sight class, every Spring we (AzCDL) pull together a group to attend the 4-day shooting class at Front Sight. It's not boot camp or Rambo school. It's the fundamentals of defending yourself with a pistol.

    We also offer their Diamond Lifetime memberships (all classes they offer for as many times as you want) at our online store for only $200.

    Fred
    $15,000 wow...

    I need to hit the lottery. Haven't attended an classes there yet but know guys who have and have heard good things all around.

    Sent from my XT907 using Tapatalk
    "The wicked flee when no man persueth: but the righteous are as bold as a lion" Proverbs 28:1

  12. #12
    Regular Member azcdlfred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Primus View Post
    $15,000 wow...I need to hit the lottery. Haven't attended an classes there yet but know guys who have and have heard good things all around.
    No need to pay retail.

    You can buy a Front Sight Diamond Life membership from AzCDL for only $200.

    Fred
    Last edited by azcdlfred; 06-14-2014 at 02:38 PM.

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    Regular Member The Trickster's Avatar
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    Thanks for the reminder; I need to renew mine before it expires.

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