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Thread: Who calls 911 on open carriers? Extra special

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Who calls 911 on open carriers? Extra special

    http://likeomggunsareforlosers.blogs...-citizens.html

    This time, it's an arrogant blogger on a newspaper site...and guess what? The Portland police advocate 911 abuse, which is a Class A misdemeanor hy the way.

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    An essential element of crime in general and particularly 911 emergency call center abuse is mens rea, expressed in the particular case as absence of good faith.

    Here is the first such Oregon ordinance that fell to hand.
    §5.21.020 Definitions.

    The following persons or words used in this chapter shall be defined as set forth in this section:
    [ ... ]
    B. “Misuse of the 911 system” is a request for emergency response when no actual emergency exists and when the caller does not have a good faith basis to request emergency assistance. This chapter shall not be applicable to mechanical activations of request for assistance which are dealt with in Chapter 5.20 ECC, nor shall it be interpreted to impose liability on any person who makes a good faith request for emergency assistance based on a reasonable factual basis that an emergency situation exists. [Ord. 3252 § 1, 1999].
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    An essential element of crime in general and particularly 911 emergency call center abuse is mens rea, expressed in the particular case as absence of good faith.

    Here is the first such Oregon ordinance that fell to hand.
    The problem with that citation is that the 9-1-1 caller has a "good faith" belief that they have a legitimate reason to request emergency assistance.

    That they would, if they had a gun, go off on a rampage and shoot up the city does not, however, mean that everybody who actually OCs has the same mindset, motivation, and attitude. I find it sad that those who call for stronger mental health responses are themselves being deprived of those services.

    I have often wondered how one of thefraidycats would fare in a mental competency hearing focused on an allegation of debilitating paranoia.

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Put them on notice

    I am reminded of this video from an open carrier in Oregon who hired a lawyer to put the 911 caller on notice.

    ~Whitney

    The problem with America is stupidity.
    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    What that guy has done is all good if you have extra money and I'm not picking it apart, but I have no requirement to notify people that they are breaking the law. Police don't need to notify and inform me about gun laws, that's my responsibility. I see 911 usage as the same thing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whitney View Post
    I am reminded of this video from an open carrier in Oregon who hired a lawyer to put the 911 caller on notice.

    ~Whitney

    In a nutshell, what did the OCer do and how did it come out? (Can't watch video on this mac air).

    thanks.

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    Regular Member Lord Sega's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    What that guy has done is all good if you have extra money and I'm not picking it apart, but I have no requirement to notify people that they are breaking the law. Police don't need to notify and inform me about gun laws, that's my responsibility. I see 911 usage as the same thing.
    Wimwag, I agree with what you say, but I also see what the guy in the video is getting at.

    A person could call 911 and even if they knew it was improper and fall back on the "good faith" protection.
    Even if they had done so several times in the past over different incidences, you would have to dig up the older 911 calls and show that they had been informed in order to cancel the good faith protection of the newer call.
    While it could be prosecuted, proving their knowledge and/or intent would be extremely difficult.
    But with his legal notification to the person, while the first 911 call is a gimme under good faith, any other calls would be much easier to show abuse of the 911 system.

    The problem there is that different carriers would not know of the letters unless someone creates an online database on who has been informed and when.

    I could see this as being effective against someone you would encounter on a regular basis.
    "Guns are not the problem … crazy is the problem” ... “We cannot legislate our society to the craziest amongst us.” - Jon Stewart
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    There are no firearms on Mars.

    There are no mass murders on Mars.

    See? Gun control works.

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    Regular Member Jack House's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    In a nutshell, what did the OCer do and how did it come out? (Can't watch video on this mac air).

    thanks.
    He hired a lawyer who got the caller's name and address and sent them a C&D more or less, informing them that OC is perfectly legal and that further use of 911 to report someone for the simple act of OCing will be a crime.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    He hired a lawyer who got the caller's name and address and sent them a C&D more or less, informing them that OC is perfectly legal and that further use of 911 to report someone for the simple act of OCing will be a crime.
    Outstanding!


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    Accomplished Advocate color of law's Avatar
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    Here in Ohio open carrying in the public is legal. Cincinnati has had extensive training to its legality.

    Yet, the City of Cincinnati 911 Communications Center website states:

    Appropriate uses of 911 are instances of immediate danger or there is a crime in progress, such as: person with a weapon (gun/knife)
    http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/police/contact-us/911/

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jack House View Post
    He hired a lawyer who got the caller's name and address and sent them a C&D more or less, informing them that OC is perfectly legal and that further use of 911 to report someone for the simple act of OCing will be a crime.
    That could be an effective tactic, removing the good faith in jurisdictions where absence of good faith is an element of the offense. Unfortunately it is a indulgence against infringement of RKABA dispensed in exchange for the attorney's fees.

    It is ineffective in the noted Cincinnati case. Uggh, no wonder Cincinnati was depoliced some years ago, with citizen/enforcer relations like that.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    All ya gotta do is hold the responding cops accountable if they screw up. The caller? Waste of time.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    All ya gotta do is hold the responding cops accountable if they screw up. The caller? Waste of time.

    it doesn't hurt to put their info out there. You know, just in case the DA decides to press charges and hold them accountable for their actions.

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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    it doesn't hurt to put their info out there. You know, just in case the DA decides to press charges and hold them accountable for their actions.
    I wish it were so. I have spoken to my little town's cop shop and they, as well as the prosecutor, will not hold a caller accountable because there is no way to prove, unless the caller admits, that their MWAG call (OC is legal) was a intentional false report. But, as we all should know ignorance of the law is no excuse. And most folks "know" that it is against the law to OC...right?
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Quote Originally Posted by wimwag View Post
    it doesn't hurt to put their info out there. You know, just in case the DA decides to press charges and hold them accountable for their actions.
    Or better yet, sic the local CPS on them. Let them have their own medicine and see how they like the state interfering with them.

    But that's just me.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    Or better yet, sic the local CPS on them. Let them have their own medicine and see how they like the state interfering with them. But that's just me.
    Childrens Protective Services? Hmm, a good idea, if they are a parent of children, to be held to account without adjudication.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Regular Member wimwag's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by FTG-05 View Post
    Or better yet, sic the local CPS on them. Let them have their own medicine and see how they like the state interfering with them.





    But that's just me.


    Having been "rescued" by child services as a kid, I can tell you without a doubt that the foster homes and shelters they put the kids in are far far worse than where you came from. I still often dream that I am back in them.
    Last edited by wimwag; 06-24-2014 at 03:17 PM.

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