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Thread: WA gun registration?

  1. #1
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    WA gun registration?

    I was reading this article today on the Seattle Fox news station and saw a curious comment.

    http://q13fox.com/2014/06/24/sheriff...#axzz35QiUFDTQ

    "Holiwell also has 69 guns registered to his name, but police have not been able to find any of them."

    I thought there was no long term gun registration in the state of Washington. As I understand it all records of gun purchases (except FFLs) are supposed to be destroyed after 30 days. So how is LE able to know that this individual has 69 guns registered to his name? Did he buy them all in the last 30 days or is there some sort of illegal government gun registry? Or am I misunderstanding the law in the state of Washington?

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    "A King County sheriff’s deputy accused of pimping out his estranged wife, dealing illegal steroids and stealing department ammunition pleaded not guilty to all charges Tuesday morning."

    Department ammo doesn't likely require registration. Department guns likely do require accountability - registration.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "A King County sheriff’s deputy accused of pimping out his estranged wife, dealing illegal steroids and stealing department ammunition pleaded not guilty to all charges Tuesday morning."

    Department ammo doesn't likely require registration. Department guns likely do require accountability - registration.
    I didn't see anything in the article that lead me to believe that the guns were department guns. I read it as the guns in question were personally owned by the accused. Is there something in the story that leads you to believe the 69 guns in question were King County owned equipment?

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    Only the registration mention. As you say, there is no federal requirement known, nor state, nor county, perhaps city policy for police, or county if it's a county level agency.
    I am responsible for my writing, not your understanding of it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by av8tr1 View Post
    I was reading this article today on the Seattle Fox news station and saw a curious comment.

    http://q13fox.com/2014/06/24/sheriff...#axzz35QiUFDTQ

    "Holiwell also has 69 guns registered to his name, but police have not been able to find any of them."

    I thought there was no long term gun registration in the state of Washington. As I understand it all records of gun purchases (except FFLs) are supposed to be destroyed after 30 days. So how is LE able to know that this individual has 69 guns registered to his name? Did he buy them all in the last 30 days or is there some sort of illegal government gun registry? Or am I misunderstanding the law in the state of Washington?
    RE: 69 guns registered - Unclear if it's department issued and/or personal.


    DOL maintains a handgun registry, no time limits on record keeping.

    RCW 9.41.129: The department of licensing may keep copies or records of applications for concealed pistol licenses provided for in RCW 9.41.070, copies or records of applications for alien firearm licenses, copies or records of applications to purchase pistols provided for in RCW 9.41.090, and copies or records of pistol transfers provided for in RCW 9.41.110. The copies and records shall not be disclosed except as provided in RCW42.56.240(4).

    RCW 9.41.110: (9)(a) A true record in triplicate shall be made of every pistol sold, in a book kept for the purpose, the form of which may be prescribed by the director of licensing and shall be personally signed by the purchaser and by the person effecting the sale, each in the presence of the other, and shall contain the date of sale, the caliber, make, model and manufacturer's number of the weapon, the name, address, occupation, and place of birth of the purchaser and a statement signed by the purchaser that he or she is not ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a firearm.
    (b) One copy shall within six hours be sent by certified mail to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county of which the purchaser is a resident; the duplicate the dealer shall within seven days send to the director of licensing; the triplicate the dealer shall retain for six years.


    In looking up the database issue, I ran across this article about WA's "outdated" registry: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/W...234968611.html

    Pertinent quote: "Officers from city, county and state law enforcement agencies tapped into it 1.7 million times in 2012. And most were unaware it lacked information on thousands of gun sales."

    I looked up the number of crimes in WA state here: http://wa-state-ofm.us/UniformCrimeReport/index.cfm And while 2012 data is quite suspect, going off 2011, there were only 259,000 - less than 20,000 violent - crimes in WA state. Why is the database being hit 1.7 million times? Inquiring minds want to know. (Rhetorical)

    More detailed OP article: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/D...264419661.html

    He allegedly stole $15,000 worth of ammo. Equivalent of roughly 500 boxes of .45.
    Last edited by mikeyb; 06-24-2014 at 06:01 PM.

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    They are tracking more than handguns.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    They are tracking more than handguns.
    That's my assessment as well.

    I seem to recall, though can not cite at the moment, that was prohibited by statute. I'll see if I can find the relative legal wording to that effect.

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    Quote Originally Posted by av8tr1 View Post
    That's my assessment as well.

    I seem to recall, though can not cite at the moment, that was prohibited by statute. I'll see if I can find the relative legal wording to that effect.
    Even if its not prohibited it goes beyond the delegated powers.

    I sat handcuffed in the back of a patrol car and saw any weapon I had bought over counter on their computer screen. Even saw some weapons I didn't buy because I changed my mind.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    They are tracking more than handguns.
    So how are they getting the long-arm sales information in the first place? Surely the FBI isn't corrupt enough that they're just furnishing background-check information wholesale to all the states? Surely......?

    (FBI runs the NICS system, not the ATF. The latter, meanwhile, doesn't get to look at the 4473 data unless a trace is initiated or the FFL goes out of business.)
    Last edited by kparker; 06-25-2014 at 04:12 AM.

  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kparker View Post
    So how are they getting the long-arm sales information in the first place? Surely the FBI isn't corrupt enough that they're just furnishing background-check information wholesale to all the states? Surely......?

    (FBI runs the NICS system, not the ATF. The latter, meanwhile, doesn't get to look at the 4473 data unless a trace is initiated or the FFL goes out of business.)
    Don't know. I have heard from others a similar story too.

    EriK if I recall seemed to have a fairly interesting theory on it.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kparker View Post
    So how are they getting the long-arm sales information in the first place? Surely the FBI isn't corrupt enough that they're just furnishing background-check information wholesale to all the states? Surely......?

    (FBI runs the NICS system, not the ATF. The latter, meanwhile, doesn't get to look at the 4473 data unless a trace is initiated or the FFL goes out of business.)
    If the 4473 is the e-4473 then the feds know instantly what you bought, where you bought, and when you bought. Hell, they likely have a photo of you buying the gat in the store.

    Anyone who continues to contend that there is not a national gun registry is fooling themselves.

    Private sales rule. Get a CCW permit to assuage the seller.
    "I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson.

    "Better that ten guilty persons escape, than that one innocent suffer" - English jurist William Blackstone.
    It is AFAIK original to me. Compromise is failure on the installment plan, particularly when dealing with so intractable an opponent as ignorance. - Nightmare

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If the 4473 is the e-4473 then the feds know instantly what you bought, where you bought, and when you bought. Hell, they likely have a photo of you buying the gat in the store.

    Anyone who continues to contend that there is not a national gun registry is fooling themselves.

    Private sales rule. Get a CCW permit to assuage the seller.

    Yep.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by OC for ME View Post
    If the 4473 is the e-4473 then the feds know instantly what you bought, where you bought, and when you bought. Hell, they likely have a photo of you buying the gat in the store.

    Anyone who continues to contend that there is not a national gun registry is fooling themselves.

    Private sales rule. Get a CCW permit to assuage the seller.
    I gather it'd go down like this, once someone actually has verifiable proof...

    Politician: "We have a gun database and purchase record, which is completely different than a registry. No one is registering- which is what happens when you register something that needs registration- guns to a registry." (insert Joe Biden fake smile)

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    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Actually, this thread was first.

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nightmare View Post
    "A King County sheriff’s deputy accused of pimping out his estranged wife, dealing illegal steroids and stealing department ammunition pleaded not guilty to all charges Tuesday morning."

    Department ammo doesn't likely require registration. Department guns likely do require accountability - registration.
    Wow 69 guns issued to you?

    In unrelated news I'm signing up for the king county sheriff exam.....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Don't know. I have heard from others a similar story too.

    EriK if I recall seemed to have a fairly interesting theory on it.
    Yeah I'm thinking the FFL in that case must've filled out the state form..... But the Wa state pistol purchase application is that, it's for pistols, and only required for such, but if the dealer filled out a state pistol purchase app for your long gun, and put in make, caliber, serial number, etc those forms are probably just scanned in by some clerk who doesn't know or care it's not a pistol.

    Of course the scam is. The PPA was only required because the sheriff conducted a background check, and that system became obsolete once NICS was online, but never repealed. It seems fitting DOL would make a registry out of the forms though.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  18. #18
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mikeyb View Post
    RE: 69 guns registered - Unclear if it's department issued and/or personal.


    DOL maintains a handgun registry, no time limits on record keeping.

    RCW 9.41.129: The department of licensing may keep copies or records of applications for concealed pistol licenses provided for in RCW 9.41.070, copies or records of applications for alien firearm licenses, copies or records of applications to purchase pistols provided for in RCW 9.41.090, and copies or records of pistol transfers provided for in RCW 9.41.110. The copies and records shall not be disclosed except as provided in RCW42.56.240(4).

    RCW 9.41.110: (9)(a) A true record in triplicate shall be made of every pistol sold, in a book kept for the purpose, the form of which may be prescribed by the director of licensing and shall be personally signed by the purchaser and by the person effecting the sale, each in the presence of the other, and shall contain the date of sale, the caliber, make, model and manufacturer's number of the weapon, the name, address, occupation, and place of birth of the purchaser and a statement signed by the purchaser that he or she is not ineligible under RCW 9.41.040 to possess a firearm.
    (b) One copy shall within six hours be sent by certified mail to the chief of police of the municipality or the sheriff of the county of which the purchaser is a resident; the duplicate the dealer shall within seven days send to the director of licensing; the triplicate the dealer shall retain for six years.


    In looking up the database issue, I ran across this article about WA's "outdated" registry: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/W...234968611.html

    Pertinent quote: "Officers from city, county and state law enforcement agencies tapped into it 1.7 million times in 2012. And most were unaware it lacked information on thousands of gun sales."

    I looked up the number of crimes in WA state here: http://wa-state-ofm.us/UniformCrimeReport/index.cfm And while 2012 data is quite suspect, going off 2011, there were only 259,000 - less than 20,000 violent - crimes in WA state. Why is the database being hit 1.7 million times? Inquiring minds want to know. (Rhetorical)

    More detailed OP article: http://www.komonews.com/news/local/D...264419661.html

    He allegedly stole $15,000 worth of ammo. Equivalent of roughly 500 boxes of .45.
    The pistol information comes up whenever your license information is run. It comes up if they scan your DL. That's why it's tapped millions of times more then the number of crimes.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The pistol information comes up whenever your license information is run. It comes up if they scan your DL. That's why it's tapped millions of times more then the number of crimes.
    Exactly. Hence the "rhetorical" notation.

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    Any registration scheme is purely voluntary .. and only people who want to have their guns taken away should register.

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    Quote Originally Posted by av8tr1 View Post
    I was reading this article today on the Seattle Fox news station and saw a curious comment.

    http://q13fox.com/2014/06/24/sheriff...#axzz35QiUFDTQ

    "Holiwell also has 69 guns registered to his name, but police have not been able to find any of them."

    I thought there was no long term gun registration in the state of Washington. As I understand it all records of gun purchases (except FFLs) are supposed to be destroyed after 30 days. So how is LE able to know that this individual has 69 guns registered to his name? Did he buy them all in the last 30 days or is there some sort of illegal government gun registry? Or am I misunderstanding the law in the state of Washington?
    There is the chance that it's the media making stuff up again or LE's simply lying. Just because it's Fox and at least semi conservative doesn't mean they can be trusted.
    "Which part of shall not be infringed is so difficult to understand"?

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