King county cop charged with prostituting wife and selling/obtaining guns illegally?

OC for ME said:

No LEA "needs" a SWAT team.

Place that SWAT team in exile until the full extent of the cancer spread is determined. The good cops on the team can drive a cruiser for a while and then get back to playing GI Joe after the dust settles. What have to be afraid of? They didn't break the law so they should be good with driving a cruiser for a while in pursuit of justice and the truth.

The sheriff...not so much. Doing the right thing is supposed to be hard sometimes.

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+1 The abuse by 'SWAT' teams needs to be dialed wayyyyy back, if it takes disbanding them to make the public safe, then the sooner the better.

WalkingWolf said:

+1 The abuse by 'SWAT' teams needs to be dialed wayyyyy back, if it takes disbanding them to make the public safe, then the sooner the better.

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you sound just like an anti gunner "we need to make the public safe" uhh.... what is the statistics showing they are unsafe?

EMNofSeattle said:

you sound just like an anti gunner "we need to make the public safe" uhh.... what is the statistics showing they are unsafe?

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http://www.cato.org/raidmap

Dave_pro2a said:

http://www.cato.org/raidmap

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great, that's not a statistic. it's a map of everything Radley Balko claims is unjustified since 1985.

out of how many raids, agencies, officers, etc hoe many raids were wrong address, someone killed unjustifiably, etc etc etc. there is no statistics on the page you cited. only a raw number. if I made the same map involving non police officers killing people with guns since 1985 those map markers would just 30 thick everywhere on the map....

EMNofSeattle said:

great, that's not a statistic. it's a map of everything Radley Balko claims is unjustified since 1985.

out of how many raids, agencies, officers, etc hoe many raids were wrong address, someone killed unjustifiably, etc etc etc. there is no statistics on the page you cited. only a raw number. if I made the same map involving non police officers killing people with guns since 1985 those map markers would just 30 thick everywhere on the map....

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As usual your misplaced faith in the state and their jack-booted goons blinds you to the point being made. One is too many. In almost every case the cops deny any wrongdoing as is the case with sheriff Nitwit.

Don't worry, elimination of SWAT should not affect the sales of SWAT video games. At least not right away...

EMNofSeattle said:

you sound just like an anti gunner "we need to make the public safe" uhh.... what is the statistics showing they are unsafe?

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"There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics."

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OC for ME said:

As usual your misplaced faith in the state and their jack-booted goons blinds you to the point being made. One is too many. In almost every case the cops deny any wrongdoing as is the case with sheriff Nitwit.

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Dead bodies, destroyed families and trampled liberties only matter when the body count reaches a magic number. They just haven't told us what it is yet...

The increase in police brutality in this country is a frightening reality. In the last decade alone the number of people murdered by police has reached 5,000. The number of soldiers killed since the inception of the Iraq war, 4489.

What went wrong? In the 1970’s SWAT teams were estimated to be used just a few hundred times per year, now we are looking at over 40,000 military style “knock and announce” police raids a year.

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So even though crime has gone down in some categories the raids have gone up 100x? Why isn't the US gang/thug-free?

What if we completely stopped having SWAT raids? What if we used SWAT only for the gravest extreme situations? There would be 5,000 civilians still alive and maybe 1,000 incidents (1/40th) not quickly covered. IOW, normal police would gear up, we'd use negotiation, isolation, sheer numbers.

IMO, virtually all No-Knock Raids are unnecessary. What's the freakin' rush? Wait for the guy to go out for milk and cigs, fercryinoutloud.

And you are 29 times more likely to be murdered by a cop than a terrorist!

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I say this as a person who is a LAC, only one moving violation in the last 35 years, and one of my dear friends from the old days is a chief of police in one of the largest counties in our state.

PistolPackingMomma said:

Dead bodies, destroyed families and trampled liberties only matter when the body count reaches a magic number. They just haven't told us what it is yet...

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and yet for people like you, policies you support lead to loads of people dying, lack of healthcare, because any subsidy is evil, people die from drugs, from the violence drugs create, broken families, mass shootings because we cant have any socialist mental health care, and that number will never be too high for you. at least I have a cut-off when I'm willing to say it's a problem and not ignore it....

i'll throw you a number, more then 1 wrong address raid per year per 50,000 population of the agencies AOR then we'll look at problems.

you also don't have a liberty to sell drugs, or run criminal enterprises, so that's not really a trampled liberty issue. sorry, can't imagine ben franklin selling methamphetamine out of a burned out house in detroit.....

EMNofSeattle said:

and yet for people like you, policies you support lead to loads of people dying, lack of healthcare, because any subsidy is evil, people die from drugs, from the violence drugs create, broken families, mass shootings because we cant have any socialist mental health care, and that number will never be too high for you. at least I have a cut-off when I'm willing to say it's a problem and not ignore it....

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Put down the crack pipe, please.

Maverick9 said:

So even though crime has gone down in some categories the raids have gone up 100x? Why isn't the US gang/thug-free?

What if we completely stopped having SWAT raids? What if we used SWAT only for the gravest extreme situations? There would be 5,000 civilians still alive and maybe 1,000 incidents (1/40th) not quickly covered. IOW, normal police would gear up, we'd use negotiation, isolation, sheer numbers.

IMO, virtually all No-Knock Raids are unnecessary. What's the freakin' rush? Wait for the guy to go out for milk and cigs, fercryinoutloud.



I say this as a person who is a LAC, only one moving violation in the last 35 years, and one of my dear friends from the old days is a chief of police in one of the largest counties in our state.

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maybe crime has gone down because we've begun to employ more aggresive enforcement and prosecution of drug and criminal enterprise laws, which is the type of things no knock raids are often used for. the "war on drugs is a failure" meme has always entertained me, anyone who believes that clearly wasn't living in a large city in the 1980s.....

the total number of yearly homicides is abotu 8500, there is no way police raids are responsible for 5000, that would be over 60%.

in the 1970s only a few large cities had SWAT teams, and crack was yet to hit the streets.

EMNofSeattle said:

and yet for people like you, policies you support lead to loads of people dying, lack of healthcare, because any subsidy is evil, people die from drugs, from the violence drugs create, broken families, mass shootings because we cant have any socialist mental health care, and that number will never be too high for you. at least I have a cut-off when I'm willing to say it's a problem and not ignore it....

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I don't get what you're saying. With the sophistication we now have of surveillance, identification, and communication there should at least be a significant drop every year of these botched paramilitary style raids.

Let's look at just the mid-Atlantic region (VA/DC/MD). From 1985 to 2014 there have been about 30+ botched ops. It looks like a steady 3-4 per year. That seems like a lot of 'mistakes' to me.

Are you saying because her atrocity is worse, this one is acceptable?

If you asked a SWAT team member, 'Sir, how many botched ops, killed innocents, wrong address per year is acceptable in your area'. I would hope he'd say 'NONE/NADA/ZERO' and they would be making it their PRIORITY to stop these. Instead they're making it a priority to go on raids.

Maverick9 said:

I don't get what you're saying. With the sophistication we now have of surveillance, identification, and communication there should at least be a significant drop every year of these botched paramilitary style raids.

Let's look at just the mid-Atlantic region (VA/DC/MD). From 1985 to 2014 there have been about 30+ botched ops. It looks like a steady 3-4 per year. That seems like a lot of 'mistakes' to me.

Are you saying because her atrocity is worse, this one is acceptable?

If you asked a SWAT team member, 'Sir, how many botched ops, killed innocents, wrong address per year is acceptable in your area'. I would hope he'd say 'NONE/NADA/ZERO' and they would be making it their PRIORITY to stop these. Instead they're making it a priority to go on raids.

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3-4 per year, and how many agencies run these raids? what's a botched op? how many people live in the area. that's what, 600,000 in DC, 4,000,000 in VA? maybe 2,500,000 in MD? I agree it's a problem, but is it a systemic problem caused by incompetence, malice, etc or is it a problem of, when in a large enough area, with enough people, and enough activity something is bound to happen? That's what I want to know,

I don't know any officers who want to just go raiding like the Vikings for the hell of it.

in my area a "SWAT raid" is 4 or 5 officers meeting the gear van, shining the spotlight in the window and announcing to the occupants there is a search warrant please come out of the house over a vehicle PA system.

once people are in custody the detectives take over the search adn the "SWAT" guys leave...

I view this like I view school shootings, it's terrible when one happens, but it's not part of a wider trend, and certainly not wide enough were gun laws can have any effect.....

PPM is a complete libertarian and believes government taxation is literal theft and that the state is no better then mafioso...

Hahahaha this is so full of crap! Redherring straw and adhominemm OH MY! I'll have fun with these posts even though most of it is fallacy scratch.

EMNofSeattle said:

and yet for people like you, policies you support lead to loads of people dying,

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No truth illogical and a lie. More people die by the state and their supporters than any other single issue. Loving human nature and trusting people has never caused anyone to die.

l

ack of healthcare

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, Lack of knowledge of history or what has caused the biggest damage to healthcare, yet even if its true stealing from people don't justify "healthcare".

because any subsidy is evil

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Any state subsidies are evil, they are theft involuntary and distort human society growth and evolution

people die from drugs, from the violence drugs create, broken families,

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Yes people die from drugs, they also die from many other things too including a lot more from cigarrettes and alcohol. Drugs create no violence, what a dumb thing to say, Divorce rates peaked in the 70's, yet your are ignoring the vital fact that after the expansion of the welfare state the lack of families had dramatically increased.

mass shootings because we cant have any socialist mental health care, and that number will never be too high for you. at least I have a cut-off when I'm willing to say it's a problem and not ignore it....

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Mass shootings are way down too, another fact conveniently ignored by statist. Even if what you said is true the answer doesn't lie within the state, people need to be responsible for their own safety. Assuming someone ignores the problem because they don't jump to the same asinine solutions you do is ignorant.

i'll throw you a number, more then 1 wrong address raid per year per 50,000 population of the agencies AOR then we'll look at problems.

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Really, babies burning, houses being destroyed, innocents being killed but that's ok with you?

you also don't have a liberty to sell drugs, or run criminal enterprises, so that's not really a trampled liberty issue. sorry, can't imagine ben franklin selling methamphetamine out of a burned out house in detroit.....

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You mean Mr. Franklin who warned about sacrificing safety for liberty? Why don't people have that liberty oh wait because its being trampled. Do you even read what you write?

EMNofSeattle said:

3-4 per year, and how many agencies run these raids? what's a botched op? how many people live in the area. that's what, 600,000 in DC, 4,000,000 in VA? maybe 2,500,000 in MD? I agree it's a problem, but is it a systemic problem caused by incompetence, malice, etc or is it a problem of, when in a large enough area, with enough people, and enough activity something is bound to happen? That's what I want to know,

I don't know any officers who want to just go raiding like the Vikings for the hell of it.

in my area a "SWAT raid" is 4 or 5 officers meeting the gear van, shining the spotlight in the window and announcing to the occupants there is a search warrant please come out of the house over a vehicle PA system.

once people are in custody the detectives take over the search adn the "SWAT" guys leave...

I view this like I view school shootings, it's terrible when one happens, but it's not part of a wider trend, and certainly not wide enough were gun laws can have any effect.....

PPM is a complete libertarian and believes government taxation is literal theft and that the state is no better then mafioso...

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Why don't they serve the notice in daylight by a regular officer with no militarized equipment?

Maybe because that wouldn't be "better than sex"?

Get rid of SWAT. Period. Highly unconstitutional to have a militarized standing army against its own people.

Numbers, numbers every where who believes the numbers.

Or are we ruled by emotion.

Facts and figures who's right who's wrong.

Some people can do math, some can not, others know they are right just because.

I hope you have fun with this.





It has been a long day

EMNofSeattle said:

(snip)

PPM is a complete libertarian...

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:eyeroll:

Try again, sugar. I haven't been libertarian in a long while.

Also, if you don't know of anyone wanting to go on swat raids for the hell of it, acquaint yourself with the officers in FL.

http://reason.com/archives/2010/12/13/the-swat-team-would-like-to-se

Thank god they arrested those folks cutting hair without a license, zomg! Chaos and anarchy abounds!!! If we didn't send in the SWAT teams, someone might have walked out with a mullet!

Firearms Iinstuctor said:

Numbers, numbers every where who believes the numbers.

Or are we ruled by emotion.

Facts and figures who's right who's wrong.

Some people can do math, some can not, others know they are right just because.

I hope you have fun with this.





It has been a long day

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Well said.

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