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Thread: What's new with this Bill I-594 ??

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    What's new with this Bill I-594 ??


  2. #2
    Activist Member golddigger14s's Avatar
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    Nothing, just waiting for it to come up for vote.
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    Regular Member decklin's Avatar
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    Never mind. I misread the title.
    Last edited by decklin; 06-29-2014 at 07:43 PM. Reason: Misread title.
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    Regular Member Freedom1Man's Avatar
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    In short background checks for ALL firearm transfers.

    If you don't do a background check on your buddy before he borrows your rifle/shotgun/pistol to go hunting, you get into trouble.

    There was a great video explaining all of this somewhere on this forum.
    Provision for free medical attendance and nursing, for clothing, for food, for housing, for the education of children, and a hundred other matters, might with equal propriety be proposed as tending to relieve the employee of mental strain and worry. --- These matters obviously lie outside the orbit of congressional power. (Railroad Retirement Board v Alton Railroad)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by NavyLCDR View Post
    What is new about it is that every gun owner needs to vote this November and vote NO on I-594 and YES on I-591. I predict we won't be able to get enough gun owners to vote no on I-594 to keep it from passing.
    Te election season hasn't even started yet. Let's not declare defeat before fall has even started
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member Whitney's Avatar
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    Telling Video

    Quote Originally Posted by Freedom1Man View Post
    In short background checks for ALL firearm transfers.

    If you don't do a background check on your buddy before he borrows your rifle/shotgun/pistol to go hunting, you get into trouble.

    There was a great video explaining all of this somewhere on this forum.

    There were two Seattle Times editorial board sessions, both videotaped by TVW. The I-591 session may be viewed here and the I-594 segment here.

    There is a lot of back and forth about what the initiaive does and does not do. King county prosocutor Dan Satterberg suggests he would not press charges against law abiding citizens who may become confused about the law. (ignorance of the law.....)


    Pass it on, particularly to those who may be on the fence.

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    I'm not saying there should be capital punishment for stupidity, but why don't we just take the safety labels off of everything and let the problem solve itself?

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    The Washington Council of Police and Sheriffs, representing 4500 police officers, has voted to not endorse 594 and endorse 591. This Ccording to Dave Workman

    http://www.examiner.com/article/excl...ive-back-i-591
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    The Washington Council of Police and Sheriffs, representing 4500 police officers, has voted to not endorse 594 and endorse 591. This Ccording to Dave Workman

    http://www.examiner.com/article/excl...ive-back-i-591
    Watch those sneaky bastards they have two Associations often one that will support liberty infringements and one that will not. So they can pretend they didn't back something while they really did. Both associations share the same office and mailing address.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    Watch those sneaky bastards they have two Associations often one that will support liberty infringements and one that will not. So they can pretend they didn't back something while they really did. Both associations share the same office and mailing address.
    What's the other association?

    Unless the demographics of the other association are significantly different I doubt it since most groups like this poll members to reach their endorsement
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  10. #10
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    What's the other association?

    Unless the demographics of the other association are significantly different I doubt it since most groups like this poll members to reach their endorsement
    These organizations are run by the same people.

    I think its Washington Sheriffs association.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  11. #11
    Regular Member 1245A Defender's Avatar
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    Well,,,

    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    What's the other association?

    Unless the demographics of the other association are significantly different I doubt it since most groups like this poll members to reach their endorsement
    IF... some read the link you posted in #8... you would see that
    two cop groups\oppose 594,
    and support 591...
    this is good news!

    are their other cop groups to wonder about?

    WACOPS joins the Washington State Law Enforcement Firearms Instructors Association (WSLEFIA) in opposing I-594, the 18-page gun control measure sponsored by the Seattle-based Washington Alliance for Gun Responsibility (WAGR). By also supporting I-591, it lends important credibility to the argument by backers of that measure that there is a right way to conduct checks and keep guns out of the wrong hands, and I-594 is not the answer.
    EMNofSeattle wrote: Your idea of freedom terrifies me. So you are actually right. I am perfectly happy with what you call tyranny.....

    “If ever a time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in Government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin.”

    Stand up for your Rights,, They have no authority on their own...

    All power is inherent in the people,
    it is their right and duty to be at all times ARMED!

  12. #12
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    These organizations are run by the same people.

    I think its Washington Sheriffs association.
    and has the Washington Sheriff's association actually endorsed 594?

    Edit.

    Hmm three of the 4 officers of WSA are the sheriffs of Kittitas, Cowlitz, and Mason counties. The state is comprised of 39 counties the raw majority of which are rural in nature. Forgive me if I don't believe this group is guaranteed to endorse a gun control measure....
    Last edited by EMNofSeattle; 07-02-2014 at 02:43 AM.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    and has the Washington Sheriff's association actually endorsed 594?

    Edit.

    Hmm three of the 4 officers of WSA are the sheriffs of Kittitas, Cowlitz, and Mason counties. The state is comprised of 39 counties the raw majority of which are rural in nature. Forgive me if I don't believe this group is guaranteed to endorse a gun control measure....

    They didn't but may have changed their mind. All I am saying is watch out for both organizations they are sneaky bastards and are not much concerned with liberty.
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    and has the Washington Sheriff's association actually endorsed 594?

    NOPE. The Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs are remaining neutral.

    King county prosocutor Dan Satterberg suggests he would not press charges against law abiding citizens who may become confused about the law. (ignorance of the law.....)
    So, it is fair to ask WHY, if you're not going to enforce the law, do you support the law?



    Here's what I wrote on Monday:

    Exclusive: WACOPS votes to oppose gun control initiative, back I-591

    The Washington Council of Police and Sheriffs (WACOPS), the state’s largest and oldest law enforcement group representing more than 4,500 active duty police officers and sheriff's deputies, dealt a serious blow to Evergreen State gun prohibitionists this morning, confirming to Examiner via telephone that it will oppose Initiative 594 and support Initiative 591, making it the second statewide law enforcement group to take that position.

    http://www.examiner.com/article/excl...ive-back-i-591

  15. #15
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    NOPE. The Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs are remaining neutral.



    So, it is fair to ask WHY, if you're not going to enforce the law, do you support the law?
    I think when 676 was on the ballot every single sheriff in the state except for spokane county opposed it.

    are they pledged to remain neutral througout the entire campaign, or only for now?

    I think Satterberg is a piece of work, never liked him much anyway.

    I'm hoping there's enough pressure to get Mark Roe to turncoat....

    and does Gottlieb have any plans to fight this initiative? I'd love to donate some money, but I'm trying to get a glimpse on what kind of opposition campaign will be run....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  16. #16
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    If you take an oath to the constitution are you really neutral?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  17. #17
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by sudden valley gunner View Post
    If you take an oath to the constitution are you really neutral?
    the constitution of the state provides for initatives......

    even if WSSA doesn't take a position, we'll see plenty of LE groups in opposition. most people don't know the difference between the alphabet soup of associations representing various LE factions.
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

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  18. #18
    Regular Member sudden valley gunner's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    the constitution of the state provides for initatives......

    even if WSSA doesn't take a position, we'll see plenty of LE groups in opposition. most people don't know the difference between the alphabet soup of associations representing various LE factions.
    Not my point.

    Yet let's drift there for a second. Initiatives cannot give the government more power than than the Constitution restricts them, including Article 1 Section 24.

    In other words rules (misnamed laws) that are not constitutional are no law at all and are null and void. Will public employees who took an oath to the constitution enforce them or enforce the constitution, either way they are not "neutral"?
    I am not anti Cop I am just pro Citizen.

    U.S. v. Minker, 350 US 179, at page 187
    "Because of what appears to be a lawful command on the surface, many citizens, because
    of their respect for what only appears to be a law, are cunningly coerced into waiving their
    rights, due to ignorance." (Paraphrased)

  19. #19
    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    the constitution of the state provides for initatives......
    Quote Originally Posted by Washington State Constitution
    SECTION 24 RIGHT TO BEAR ARMS. The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.
    Unambiguous.
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 07-03-2014 at 12:59 AM.

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    Regular Member Dave_pro2a's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    the constitution of the state provides for initatives......

    even if WSSA doesn't take a position, we'll see plenty of LE groups in opposition. most people don't know the difference between the alphabet soup of associations representing various LE factions.
    While we're talking about the Constitution of WA:

    The WA Constitution was adopted in 1878. The original constitution lacked a provision for an 'initiative process.' Weird, you mean WA didn't always have that neat initiative process? What did it say about guns?!?!?!

    The original Constitution said https://archive.org/details/constitutionadop1878wash:

    Quote Originally Posted by Original Washington Constitution 1878
    Section 19. The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed, but this shall not be construed as to justify the carrying of concealed weapons.
    WUT! You mean CCW was EXPLICITLY prohibited?!?!

    It was later amended 1889 to read:
    Quote Originally Posted by Washington Constitution Amended 1889
    The right of the individual citizen to bear arms in defense of himself, or the state, shall not be impaired, but nothing in this section shall be construed as authorizing individuals or corporations to organize, maintain or employ an armed body of men.
    That WA initiative process you mentioned: adopted in 1912 http://participedia.net/de/methods/w...iative-process.
    That's 34 years after Statehood, whereas they recognized the inalienable Right to own firearms from day one.

    This is all just meaningless history, or is it?
    Last edited by Dave_pro2a; 07-03-2014 at 01:26 AM.

  21. #21
    Regular Member Geerolla's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    NOPE. The Washington Association of Sheriffs and Police Chiefs are remaining neutral.
    Is it an election year or something?


    Sent from my UAV using Disposition Matrix 2.0

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    "I think Satterberg is a piece of work, never liked him much anyway. "

    Why? As far as I can tell, he's following pretty much in the footsteps of the (very reasonable) Norm Maleng.

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    and does Gottlieb have any plans to fight this initiative? I'd love to donate some money, but I'm trying to get a glimpse on what kind of opposition campaign will be run....

    Have you been sleeping at the wheel?

    Gottlieb has been spearheading the opposition, and he authored up I-591, which is the O-N-L-Y thing, as NavyLCDR pointed out, that will keep I-594 from being jammed up...well, you figure it out.

    Gottlieb was that fellow at the Seattle Times editorial board meeting..Whitney posted the links, above. And he pretty much handed the opponents of I-591, and the proponents of I-594, their heads. Likewise, NRA's Brian Judy's remarks creamed 'em.

    Gottlieb has already put the Citizens Committee resources and bank account behind I-591. The NRA, meanwhile, has recently jumped into the fight but ony against I-594. NRA has taken no position nor -- as the anti-gunners would have had people believe months ago -- contributed a penny to the I-591 effort. Check the PDC records.


    Support I-591

    PROTECT OUR GUN RIGHTS
    12500 N.E. Tenth Place
    Bellevue, WA 98005
    ATTN: Phil Watson

    http://wagunrights.org

    (You can contribute on-line)



    And keep reading my Seattle Gun Rights Examiner columns. Probably the ONLY place anybody's going to get some balance in this campaign.

  24. #24
    Regular Member EMNofSeattle's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dave Workman View Post
    Have you been sleeping at the wheel?

    Gottlieb has been spearheading the opposition, and he authored up I-591, which is the O-N-L-Y thing, as NavyLCDR pointed out, that will keep I-594 from being jammed up...well, you figure it out.

    Gottlieb was that fellow at the Seattle Times editorial board meeting..Whitney posted the links, above. And he pretty much handed the opponents of I-591, and the proponents of I-594, their heads. Likewise, NRA's Brian Judy's remarks creamed 'em.

    Gottlieb has already put the Citizens Committee resources and bank account behind I-591. The NRA, meanwhile, has recently jumped into the fight but ony against I-594. NRA has taken no position nor -- as the anti-gunners would have had people believe months ago -- contributed a penny to the I-591 effort. Check the PDC records.


    Support I-591

    PROTECT OUR GUN RIGHTS
    12500 N.E. Tenth Place
    Bellevue, WA 98005
    ATTN: Phil Watson

    http://wagunrights.org

    (You can contribute on-line)



    And keep reading my Seattle Gun Rights Examiner columns. Probably the ONLY place anybody's going to get some balance in this campaign.
    For awhile the scene was quiet. With WeCARE now active and the NRA kicking off their opposition campaign which happened after I posted that several weeks ago, I have been to an NRA grassroots meeting, I will be sending some donations when my next paycheck comes in and I plan on contacting the NRA or my local gun range since someone at the grassroots meeting wanted volunteers for the county fairs.....
    they love our milk and honey, but they preach about some other way of living, when they're running down my country man they're walkin' on the fightin side of me

    NRA Member

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    Quote Originally Posted by EMNofSeattle View Post
    For awhile the scene was quiet. With WeCARE now active and the NRA kicking off their opposition campaign which happened after I posted that several weeks ago, I have been to an NRA grassroots meeting, I will be sending some donations when my next paycheck comes in and I plan on contacting the NRA or my local gun range since someone at the grassroots meeting wanted volunteers for the county fairs.....
    Good enough.
    Here's some food for thought:

    The ‘other half’ of gun control story bears repeating

    The Seattle Times reported Saturday morning about Friday’s arrest of a Southern California UPS driver on an indictment issued Wednesday, alleging that the suspect stole dozens of guns that were sold “on the black market.”

    http://www.examiner.com/article/the-...ears-repeating

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