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Thread: traveling through out the state

  1. #1
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    traveling through out the state

    Wife and I will be RVing through out the state and I have been reading up on AZ carry law. I am puzzled a little bit by the many native American reservations. Does AZ state laws apply to them? Now I know Indian lands are their own nations in themselves and have their own laws too. Some states reservations follow the state laws they are located in but am I reading AZ reservations can prohibit carry in any and all forms correct? If so, how do you keep track of all of them and where they begin and end? Any help and insight here is greatly appreciated.

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    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ken56 View Post
    Wife and I will be RVing through out the state and I have been reading up on AZ carry law. I am puzzled a little bit by the many native American reservations. Does AZ state laws apply to them? Now I know Indian lands are their own nations in themselves and have their own laws too. Some states reservations follow the state laws they are located in but am I reading AZ reservations can prohibit carry in any and all forms correct? If so, how do you keep track of all of them and where they begin and end? Any help and insight here is greatly appreciated.
    Three things:
    1. Welcome to AZ, and greetings from sunny, dry Tucson to you and yours.
    2. If you're in the Phoenix area this Saturday (5th of July), a few of us are getting together for an OC lunch. If you think you can make it, let me know and I'll give you the details by PM.

    3. Not sure how well this answers your questions, but here goes:

    Quote Originally Posted by davesnothere View Post
    Special rules on the Indian Nation Lands made OC this past weekend a bit of a pain in the ass.

    Further, it seems small town Arizona is stepping backward. I had to remove my gun several times this weekend just to make it through the State.

    So, here goes the play-by-play....

    My wife and I went looking for new camping sites this weekend, for the upcoming long, holiday weekend. We decided to also take a long drive on the Devil's Highway (formerly numbered 666) in eastern Arizona. Our route took us through the San Carlos and White Mountain Apache Reservations.

    Now, I've read the tribal rules, and it seems most comfortable to me to go ahead and follow safe-passage rules as closely as I could, so I unloaded and stowed my gun in the cargo area of my Subaru while crossing the Indian lands. That's difficulty number one. There are a lot of points where you're crossing reservation land. So on both Saturday and Sunday there was a lot of putting on and taking off of my holster and gun. Several roadside stops, which I felt only increased the opportunity for problems.

    Next, for stops along the way, there seemed to be "No Firearms" signs everywhere I went. We stopped at a café in Morenci - posted. We stopped at a gas station in Morenci - posted (I pay with cash, so I always go inside - my wife went in so I wouldn't have to unholster). We made the drive all the way to Alpine without incident, but once we got to Springerville just about everywhere we went was posted. My gun belt and holster saw more action than they usually see in a month of carrying. SNIP...
    [Bolding done for emphasis]

    Not the best situation, I know, but unless you know someone on the reservation (whichever one you may be in at the moment), I'd err on the side of (legal) caution. The state is one thing, but it seems the reservations play by their own rules (and believe me, some of the people there aren't at all happy with certain conditions about "arms").
    Last edited by Rusty Young Man; 07-01-2014 at 11:24 PM.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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    Thanks for the cross-post Rusty!

    Okay, so on Tribal law I need to be more clear than I was before. I think I was a little muddled and I've brushed up quite a bit about it since my last post.

    Every tribe has their own laws governing firearms carry, and some of the tribes (Apache) are quite welcoming of carriers, while some are not (Dineh "Navajo"). The safest rule to follow when you're crossing tribal land is to follow the Navajo rule, just so you're not caught out and in violation of their laws.

    The Navajo rule is the same as the Federal safe-passage rule, which states that "persons traveling from one place to another cannot be incarcerated for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas), provided that the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, that the firearms are unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, the firearms are located in a locked container." -stolen from the Cornell law site.

    You can stop for food or gas, but you shouldn't be stopping for vacation on tribal lands if you want to not be in violation of this rule. Also, what that bit doesn't cover is that you can't have the firearm locked in the glove box, or a locked center console. Those areas are still considered immediately accessible.

    In the Phoenix/Scottsdale/Mesa area I've crossed the Salt River reservation on McKellips a few times open carry in the past(before I was aware of the tribal law differences, and discovered that McKellips being part of my commute doesn't protect me), but the SRPMIC is likely going to come down a lot harder on non-tribal-members crossing the reservation after some recent officer-involved shootings during traffic stops. Nowadays, when I'm making my morning commute, I just stay on the 202 and the 101 to avoid the reservation.

    If you are crossing this reservation (and it's easy to do without realizing you are - SR-87 crosses a big chunk of reservation land), then you might want to study up on these parts of the tribal law:

    Sec. 6-130. Possession of Firearms or Explosive Weapons.
    (b) Permit for single shot or semiautomatic firearms, inoperable firearms.
    The department of public safety may issue a permit authorizing the possession by persons within the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community of single shot and semiautomatic firearms and firearms and weapons for which a certificate of inoperability has been issued.
    (e) Possession without a permit. Any person who shall possess within the Salt River Pima-Maricopa Indian Community any firearm or weapon for which a permit has not been issued shall be deemed guilty of an offense, unless such firearm or weapon is being transported through the community and is unloaded and not readily accessible.
    (f) Unauthorized weapons declared contraband. Any firearm or weapon, the possession of which is an offense, shall be contraband and subject to the provisions of Chapter 14, Article III of this Code of Ordinances.
    The full text of the tribal law for the SRPMIC can be found here: http://www.srpmic-nsn.gov/government...s/Chapter6.pdf

  4. #4
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    I swear, constitutional carry state and you guys have ALOT of reservations in your state all with differences in their laws. As you have pointed out, better to err on the side of caution. As an outsider here I will just not chance it and be a good boy and unload and lock'em up I guess. It comes to mind that the easier question to ask is where CAN I carry? lol. Our route is taking us to the Grand Canyon and mainly the I-40 corridor. Any place that I should put on the must see list?

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    Contact the Navajo Tribal Police to find out what exceptions and allowances they will allow for you.


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    Quote Originally Posted by davesnothere View Post
    Thanks for the cross-post Rusty!

    Okay, so on Tribal law I need to be more clear than I was before. I think I was a little muddled and I've brushed up quite a bit about it since my last post.

    Every tribe has their own laws governing firearms carry, and some of the tribes (Apache) are quite welcoming of carriers, while some are not (Dineh "Navajo"). The safest rule to follow when you're crossing tribal land is to follow the Navajo rule, just so you're not caught out and in violation of their laws.

    The Navajo rule is the same as the Federal safe-passage rule, which states that "persons traveling from one place to another cannot be incarcerated for a firearms offense in a state that has strict gun control laws if the traveler is just passing through (short stops for food and gas), provided that the firearms and ammunition are not immediately accessible, that the firearms are unloaded and, in the case of a vehicle without a compartment separate from the driver’s compartment, the firearms are located in a locked container." -stolen from the Cornell law site.

    You can stop for food or gas, but you shouldn't be stopping for vacation on tribal lands if you want to not be in violation of this rule. Also, what that bit doesn't cover is that you can't have the firearm locked in the glove box, or a locked center console. Those areas are still considered immediately accessible.

    In the Phoenix/Scottsdale/Mesa area I've crossed the Salt River reservation on McKellips a few times open carry in the past(before I was aware of the tribal law differences, and discovered that McKellips being part of my commute doesn't protect me), but the SRPMIC is likely going to come down a lot harder on non-tribal-members crossing the reservation after some recent officer-involved shootings during traffic stops. Nowadays, when I'm making my morning commute, I just stay on the 202 and the 101 to avoid the reservation.

    If you are crossing this reservation (and it's easy to do without realizing you are - SR-87 crosses a big chunk of reservation land), then you might want to study up on these parts of the tribal law:



    The full text of the tribal law for the SRPMIC can be found here: http://www.srpmic-nsn.gov/government...s/Chapter6.pdf
    How do tribal laws apply to non tribal members?
    Throw me to the wolves and I will come back leading the pack.

  7. #7
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    I'm trying to find that out. I've been calling local reservations, but all I'm getting so far is runaround.


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  8. #8
    Regular Member Rusty Young Man's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davesnothere View Post
    I'm trying to find that out. I've been calling local reservations, but all I'm getting so far is runaround.


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    One of the guys on an AZ forum is Navajo, and I get the impression that even he isn't completely sure about how the laws apply to non-members of the Dine (spelling?) nation. Any and all responses you get (hopefully straitforward) will be highly appreciated.
    I carry to defend my loved ones; Desensitizing and educating are secondary & tertiary reasons. Anything else is unintended.

    “Life, liberty, and property do not exist because men have made laws. On the contrary, it was the fact that life, liberty, and property existed beforehand that caused men to make laws in the first place.” - Frederic Bastiat

    "When bad men combine, the good must associate; else they will fall one by one, an unpitied sacrifice in a contemptible struggle." - Edmund Burke

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