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Thread: Headline - "Open Carry:Group armed with long guns stroll weekly through Carytown"

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    Campaign Veteran T Dubya's Avatar
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    Headline - "Open Carry:Group armed with long guns stroll weekly through Carytown"

    Is this a violation of site rules since it is about long gun open-carry? No, like it or not open-carriers of pistols will be lumped in with these guys.

    What does this have to do with open-carry in Virginia? Mom's Demand Action is an anti-second amendment group that works against us. They are cited in this article.

    What else does this article have to do with open-carry in Virginia? Moms Demand Action are working to make Carytown criminal enabler zone - AKA "gun free zone."


    http://wtvr.com/2014/07/01/long-guns-carytown/
    Last edited by T Dubya; 07-02-2014 at 08:57 AM. Reason: add
    "These are the shock troops (opencarry.org) of the gun lobby. And, they are not going away."
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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Apparently one of the things causing anxiety and apprehension is the carrying of the flag.

    It's unusual, so it gets labled as "scary".

    Does anybody remember when African Americanes (that's what they were back then) walked in groups (like these guys - 2 or 3 at a time) along the sidewalks of Carytown and downtown? Beyond "scary" into the realm of terrifying.

    Has anybody run into one of the group outings of/for the intellectually challenged (retarded)? Mommies grabbing their children and hustling them away lest the kids "catch" something.

    So far these three guys are confining their activity to walking on the public sidewalks, as opposed to carrying their behavior into private property. So what's all the excitement here about?

    stay safe.
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    Regular Member OC for ME's Avatar
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    “Getting up and doing something positive or negative is better than sitting around at your house with an opinion never actually getting up and standing for something. Nut up or shut up. I am a true patriot. Are you?” he writes.
    DOH!!
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    Regular Member Repeater's Avatar
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    Jason Spitzer sure likes to say 'Open Carry' a lot

    I wonder if he is hijacking the term as applied here?

    See his fb page.

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    Maybe lots of people with rifles would like to gather and parade around with their guns .. seems like a fun time to meet people.

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    Campaign Veteran skidmark's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by davidmcbeth View Post
    Maybe lots of people with rifles would like to gather and parade around with their guns .. seems like a fun time to meet people.
    If all the people I know are carrying their rifles, and all sorts of folks I don't know but somehow seem connected with my friends are also carrying rifles, there are two possibilities:

    1 - something really, really bad is about to happen; or

    2 - I missed the memo (about #1 ^) again.

    stay safe.
    "He'll regret it to his dying day....if ever he lives that long."----The Quiet Man

    Because stupidity isn't a race, and everybody can win.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    This is really starting to make me angry.

    When people who claim to be your friends are more effective at hurting your cause than the people who claim to be your opponents...

    it's probably time to re-evaluate your "friends..."

    TFred

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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    This is really starting to make me angry.

    When people who claim to be your friends are more effective at hurting your cause than the people who claim to be your opponents...

    it's probably time to re-evaluate your "friends..."

    TFred
    Funny, that's what the CC only crowd say about us.....

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    This is really starting to make me angry.

    When people who claim to be your friends are more effective at hurting your cause than the people who claim to be your opponents...

    it's probably time to re-evaluate your "friends..."

    TFred
    Is the problem open carrying rifles or open carrying rifles while not presenting it in a professional manner?

    Because:
    *I've heard the same exact arguments from conceal carriers against open carriers of pistols
    *Open carrying pistols was not always as easy as it is now. Back in the day some extreme nut jobs risked criticism and "hurting the cause" to slowly push the cause forward.
    *in some places open carry of pistols is not as welcome as it is in VA and has a similar effect that rifles may have here in VA. Should they not open carry there? Because some paranoid people don't like it?

    If your activism is not creating attention, typically negative attention, then your activism is not really activism.

    Pushing the lines FORWARD , whether it be in gun rights, gay rights, minorities rights or whatever else....it's always going to create negative attention.

    That attention is an opportunity. But only if you manage it correctly.

    Distancing yourself from it only legitimizes the other side. Who agrees with you. They don't want to get rid of long gun open carry because it is damaging to the movement. If that were true they'd just let you carry long guns and let the damage take care of itself. They don't want you to openly carry long guns because it not only begins a process of normalizing them, but it makes openly carrying pistols seem so much more reasonable.
    Last edited by richarcm; 07-02-2014 at 09:20 PM.

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    I would agree that openly carrying long guns is a good way to normalize the act itself. However, I just left the Facebook page that was created for their 4th of July event. I do believe they mean well but they seem to lack any kind of leadership or greater purpose. No they don't really need one, but given the lack of articulation and grammar in their Facebook posts they may end up doing more harm than good. Yes open carry of long guns is legal in Virginia, but without a affable figurehead at this event they will more than likely be seen as ignorant children just trying to get attention. But that's just my opinion.

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    Regular Member richarcm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doc_Smith View Post
    I would agree that openly carrying long guns is a good way to normalize the act itself. However, I just left the Facebook page that was created for their 4th of July event. I do believe they mean well but they seem to lack any kind of leadership or greater purpose. No they don't really need one, but given the lack of articulation and grammar in their Facebook posts they may end up doing more harm than good. Yes open carry of long guns is legal in Virginia, but without a affable figurehead at this event they will more than likely be seen as ignorant children just trying to get attention. But that's just my opinion.
    When I open carry my pistols I am my own leader. We are all individuals. We are not collectives. It is much easier to tear a movement down when it can be lumped into one collective or the next.

    And again people look at pistol open carriers as dumb redneck children looking for attention. That is how the opposition views ALL open carriers. Often times that opposition are the conceal carriers. People who should be our allies. How many YouTube videos can you find from conceal carriers speaking to how extreme and dangerous and damaging open carry of pistols is?

    The question is....when do you care about what others think and when do you not?

    Yes open carrying rifles around Target is a little showy. But it's also a little showy to walk around Starbucks with big pistols and revolvers on your hips. Maybe the long gun people should keep to public places. For now. But the sentiment I often hear from the handgun open carriers is not in HOW long guns are openly carried. Or where they are carried. But that it's always dangerous, always silly, and never a good idea. And often from the same people who have never really voiced that same sentiment when people openly carry rifles to the state capital on Lobby Day.

    Only now that a small and vocal minority are making some noise do they feel shame and seek to hide their rights. Do we only open carry pistols because it is easy? Because we feel that we won't scare anyone? Because we won't ever give off the image of old sloppy redneck?

    These people aren't trying to ban open carry of long guns. They are trying to ban open carry. People who want to ban assault rifles don't want to ban assault rifles. They want to ban guns. If you do not own an assault rifle it does you as a pistol owner no good to help the gun grabbers get the assault rifles guys. Hoping that that will save you and your pistols. You only legitimize their ulltimate goal. Taking guns. Same thing here. By making a double standard for guns based upon what they look like we are encouraging the ban of guns in general. While also making the point that black rifles ARE scary and SHOULD be treated differently because they look scarier.

    This all falls into the gun grabbers hands.
    Last edited by richarcm; 07-03-2014 at 07:03 AM.

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    when i open carry my pistols i am my own leader. We are all individuals. We are not collectives. It is much easier to tear a movement down when it can be lumped into one collective or the next.

    And again people look at pistol open carriers as dumb redneck children looking for attention. That is how the opposition views all open carriers. Often times that opposition are the conceal carriers. People who should be our allies. How many youtube videos can you find from conceal carriers speaking to how extreme and dangerous and damaging open carry of pistols is?

    The question is....when do you care about what others think and when do you not?

    Yes open carrying rifles around target is a little showy. But it's also a little showy to walk around starbucks with big pistols and revolvers on your hips. Maybe the long gun people should keep to public places. For now. But the sentiment i often hear from the handgun open carriers is not in how long guns are openly carried. Or where they are carried. But that it's always dangerous, always silly, and never a good idea. And often from the same people who have never really voiced that same sentiment when people openly carry rifles to the state capital on lobby day.

    Only now that a small and vocal minority are making some noise do they feel shame and seek to hide their rights. Do we only open carry pistols because it is easy? Because we feel that we won't scare anyone? Because we won't ever give off the image of old sloppy redneck?

    These people aren't trying to ban open carry of long guns. They are trying to ban open carry. People who want to ban assault rifles don't want to ban assault rifles. They want to ban guns. If you do not own an assault rifle it does you as a pistol owner no good to help the gun grabbers get the assault rifles guys. Hoping that that will save you and your pistols. You only legitimize their ulltimate goal. Taking guns. Same thing here. By making a double standard for guns based upon what they look like we are encouraging the ban of guns in general. While also making the point that black rifles are scary and should be treated differently because they look scarier.

    This all falls into the gun grabbers hands.
    qft!
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    Campaign Veteran Running Wolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    When I open carry my pistols I am my own leader. We are all individuals. We are not collectives. It is much easier to tear a movement down when it can be lumped into one collective or the next.

    And again people look at pistol open carriers as dumb redneck children looking for attention. That is how the opposition views ALL open carriers. Often times that opposition are the conceal carriers. People who should be our allies. How many YouTube videos can you find from conceal carriers speaking to how extreme and dangerous and damaging open carry of pistols is?

    The question is....when do you care about what others think and when do you not?

    Yes open carrying rifles around Target is a little showy. But it's also a little showy to walk around Starbucks with big pistols and revolvers on your hips. Maybe the long gun people should keep to public places. For now. But the sentiment I often hear from the handgun open carriers is not in HOW long guns are openly carried. Or where they are carried. But that it's always dangerous, always silly, and never a good idea. And often from the same people who have never really voiced that same sentiment when people openly carry rifles to the state capital on Lobby Day.

    Only now that a small and vocal minority are making some noise do they feel shame and seek to hide their rights. Do we only open carry pistols because it is easy? Because we feel that we won't scare anyone? Because we won't ever give off the image of old sloppy redneck?

    These people aren't trying to ban open carry of long guns. They are trying to ban open carry. People who want to ban assault rifles don't want to ban assault rifles. They want to ban guns. If you do not own an assault rifle it does you as a pistol owner no good to help the gun grabbers get the assault rifles guys. Hoping that that will save you and your pistols. You only legitimize their ulltimate goal. Taking guns. Same thing here. By making a double standard for guns based upon what they look like we are encouraging the ban of guns in general. While also making the point that black rifles ARE scary and SHOULD be treated differently because they look scarier.

    This all falls into the gun grabbers hands.
    When rights are outlawed only outlaws will have rights.

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    Regular Member TFred's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by xd shooter View Post
    Funny, that's what the CC only crowd say about us.....
    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    Is the problem open carrying rifles or open carrying rifles while not presenting it in a professional manner?

    Because:
    *I've heard the same exact arguments from conceal carriers against open carriers of pistols
    *Open carrying pistols was not always as easy as it is now. Back in the day some extreme nut jobs risked criticism and "hurting the cause" to slowly push the cause forward.
    *in some places open carry of pistols is not as welcome as it is in VA and has a similar effect that rifles may have here in VA. Should they not open carry there? Because some paranoid people don't like it?

    If your activism is not creating attention, typically negative attention, then your activism is not really activism.

    Pushing the lines FORWARD , whether it be in gun rights, gay rights, minorities rights or whatever else....it's always going to create negative attention.

    That attention is an opportunity. But only if you manage it correctly.

    Distancing yourself from it only legitimizes the other side. Who agrees with you. They don't want to get rid of long gun open carry because it is damaging to the movement. If that were true they'd just let you carry long guns and let the damage take care of itself. They don't want you to openly carry long guns because it not only begins a process of normalizing them, but it makes openly carrying pistols seem so much more reasonable.
    One purpose of openly carrying handguns is to acclimate the general population to it's "normalcy." I don't think anyone seriously believes that openly carrying long guns is ever going to be "normal," short of some sort of a police state, or post-apocalyptic, "our-survival-is-in-question" world.

    Lacking that purpose, I don't think it helps the cause of normalizing the open carry of handguns, and it has already shown itself to be detrimental in several cases.

    BTW, PVC got a mention in The Truth About Guns, one of the larger gun blogs.

    TFred

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    Interesting discussion Gentlemen!

    Seems everyone is correct to a point and there is no generic answer. Unlike the Texas Three, which I didn't care for because of their appearance, this seems to be a "Kids next door" group of folks.

    Perhaps it does harm the handgun crowd....That's what the sissies at Richmond Guns say about us.

    It's the 4th....Carry a gun, any gun responsibly and proudly, dump some tea in the harbor and thumb your nose at the seatbelt laws.

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    Quote Originally Posted by peter nap View Post
    Interesting discussion Gentlemen!

    Seems everyone is correct to a point and there is no generic answer. Unlike the Texas Three, which I didn't care for because of their appearance, this seems to be a "Kids next door" group of folks.

    Perhaps it does harm the handgun crowd....That's what the sissies at Richmond Guns say about us.

    It's the 4th....Carry a gun, any gun responsibly and proudly, dump some tea in the harbor and thumb your nose at the seatbelt laws.
    I'm just glad you are still here to grace us with your wisdom. I agree with carrying a gun and dumping the tea, but having survived taking out my windshield (with my hard head) in 1973, I never go anywhere without a seatbelt. Far less painful than the windshield, take it from me. Happy Independence Day. ;>)
    Last edited by va_tazdad; 07-04-2014 at 08:11 AM.

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    Some protective head gear might be in order - take your pick.






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    Regular Member Thundar's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TFred View Post
    One purpose of openly carrying handguns is to acclimate the general population to it's "normalcy." I don't think anyone seriously believes that openly carrying long guns is ever going to be "normal," short of some sort of a police state, or post-apocalyptic, "our-survival-is-in-question" world.

    Lacking that purpose, I don't think it helps the cause of normalizing the open carry of handguns, and it has already shown itself to be detrimental in several cases.

    BTW, PVC got a mention in The Truth About Guns, one of the larger gun blogs.

    TFred
    A right unexercised is a right lost. Seems to me I heard that one on some info gun Internet forum.

    We may not like the way others carry, (damn plastic guns are an abomination in my humble opinion) but as long as others are carrying in a safe manner, they always get my support.

    You may doubt the normalcy of long gun open carry TFred, but many doubted that handgun open carry would ever be accepted.

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    Accomplished Advocate peter nap's Avatar
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    I think this thread should be OK since they are OCing handguns also...but Grapeshot needs to decide that.

    I went to Harbor Freight and decided to see how they were doing. There stood Andrew Goddard trying to behave like a passerby and taking pictures.

    I warned them about them, gave Andrew a big smile and wave to photograph and talked to them for a while. Overall, nice kids and seemed to be going about business in a polite way.

    I explained Richmond's law about loaded rifles and how it only comes into play in a vehicle, my concerns about public perception and got a picture and left.


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    Even if you don't care to open carry long guns, don't oppose those who do.

    Quote Originally Posted by richarcm View Post
    These people aren't trying to ban open carry of long guns. They are trying to ban open carry. People who want to ban assault rifles don't want to ban assault rifles. They want to ban guns. If you do not own an assault rifle it does you as a pistol owner no good to help the gun grabbers get the assault rifles guys. Hoping that that will save you and your pistols. You only legitimize their ulltimate goal. Taking guns. Same thing here. By making a double standard for guns based upon what they look like we are encouraging the ban of guns in general. While also making the point that black rifles ARE scary and SHOULD be treated differently because they look scarier.

    This all falls into the gun grabbers hands.
    Very nicely said. Reminds one of the Pastor Niemöller poem which starts "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--Because I was not a Socialist."

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    Quote Originally Posted by PeterNSteinmetz View Post
    Very nicely said. Reminds one of the Pastor Niemöller poem which starts "First they came for the Socialists, and I did not speak out--Because I was not a Socialist."
    Seems about right. Saw this cartoon on Spitzer's facebook page:


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    Is that guy seriously carrying a Mosin Nagant? Hilarious. Stupid, but hilarious.
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

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    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    Is that guy seriously carrying a Mosin Nagant? Hilarious. Stupid, but hilarious.
    Give logical reason why it is stupid?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
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    Regular Member SovereignAxe's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by WalkingWolf View Post
    Give logical reason why it is stupid?
    Have you ever tried to load a clip into a Mosin?

    Or shot one without ear protection?
    "Anyone worth shooting once is worth shooting twice." -Zeus

    "Someone ever tries to kill you, you try to kill 'em right back!" - Malcolm Reynolds

    EDC = Walther PPQ 9mm

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    Regular Member WalkingWolf's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SovereignAxe View Post
    Have you ever tried to load a clip into a Mosin?

    Or shot one without ear protection?
    Did Russian shoulders use ear protection during WW2? Did GI's wear ear protection?

    I don't think he was carrying to shoot while walking, and he was also carrying a loaded pistol. Do you wear ear protection while carrying a handgun? What caliber is your handgun? Do you have a time out sign for the bad guy to put ear protection on?
    It is well that war is so terrible – otherwise we would grow too fond of it.
    Robert E. Lee
    The patriot volunteer, fighting for country and his rights, makes the most reliable soldier on earth.
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    What separates the winners from the losers is how a person reacts to each new twist of fate.
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